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for those who have kids

onerepmaximum

New member
As many of you know, my wife recently gave birth to a little boy. We have a 4 year old little girl and I have a 7 year old boy from a previous marriage (I only get him on the weekends). My question is this, does $750 a month seem like a lot to pay for daycare for two kids? That's what we pay. My wife is an active duty Marine and the kids go to daycare on the base. We had talked about taking the kids out of base day care and letting one of our friends keep them for a much more reasonable price. We were informed yesterday that if someone keeps the kids who is not a certified child care provider, they will lose their base housing. It was our decision to have kids, so don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the responsibilities and costs associated with that. I'm just trying to get a gauge from you guys to see if we are getting screwed, or if this is what we can expect.
 
I believe in the one-career family. I would rather have less income and have my kids be raised by their parents rather than by some day care worker for outrageous cost.

One man's humble opinion.
 
I know people paying up to 500 a week. Not a mnth, a week. So you are getting off on the cheap with 750 a mnth.
 
ttlpkg said:
I believe in the one-career family. I would rather have less income and have my kids be raised by their parents rather than by some day care worker for outrageous cost.

One man's humble opinion.
I second that. If it is at all doable, its so much better to have a parent stay at home. You just miss so much otherwise.
 
Here you can pay anywhere from 50-100$ per week/per child.

It depends where you go. Some private daycare centers will cost less, some more.

It sound as if you are paying a fair amount.

Some single moms I know can get subsidised by the govn't here and get child care free, or at a substantially reduced rate.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I know people paying up to 500 a week. Not a mnth, a week. So you are getting off on the cheap with 750 a mnth.

Dang, what the heck do they serve the kids to eat rib eyes and lobster? That is ridiculous. Man, the women would have to make at least 3k a month to make that worth while.
 
Fair if the Daycare is nice and provides activities, and more than just people to sit and watch them...

We were so very lucky to have my wifes Mom that watched our Daughter at her home until she started School.

We insisted on still paying her $100 a week.
 
Around here daycare runs anywhere from $20-35 dollars a day...with no discount for additional kids.

But licensed daycares have certain speficiations that they have to abide by. A lot of times, if you can find a stay-at home mom that is looking for extra money, you may be able to pay as little as $1.25 an hour.

There are also a lot of "preschool" programs that run half-days that cost as little as $65 dollars a month. Which would cut the cost of your daycare bill.

Good Luck!!
 
hmm

750 a month for two kids is reasonable...

typical of the Corp to enforce its morality on people by threatening their housing..

just another one of the many reasons I fucking hate the Marine Corp.
 
Re: hmm

Milo Hobgoblin said:
750 a month for two kids is reasonable...

typical of the Corp to enforce its morality on people by threatening their housing..

just another one of the many reasons I fucking hate the Marine Corp.
It's a Navy base therefore it's a Navy policy. What do you have against the Marine Corps? Were you ever in?
 
Depends on where you live.

Out here in Utah it's about 2-3 dollars per hour per child.
In San Diego it's 6 bucks per child per hour.
 
ttlpkg said:
I believe in the one-career family. I would rather have less income and have my kids be raised by their parents rather than by some day care worker for outrageous cost.

One man's humble opinion.

I agree. Although doesn't have to mean one career. Flex-time, working from home, etc. is possible also. I also think if kids spend a couple days with grandparents or family that's okay too. I just never want to have my kids (when I have them) in daycare if possible.
 
Ideally, one parent should work and the other should stay home with the children. Very few can do that these days. I hated putting my child in a daycare so I did everything I could to keep her home. I worked two 12 hour shifts on the weekends and 2 midnight shifts during the week. I sacrificed everything for her, because she is more important than myself or my ex. She didn't ask to be born. My ex never appreciated the sacrifices. She was jealous of the attention that was being diverted from her.
 
lucidBlue said:


I agree. Although doesn't have to mean one career. Flex-time, working from home, etc. is possible also. I also think if kids spend a couple days with grandparents or family that's okay too. I just never want to have my kids in daycare if possible.
I think there is something to be said for what daycare offers a child. It is good for kids to be around other kids. They learn things that can't otherwise (true, both good and bad). However, no one cares for a child like their parents do. My preference is to let them be at home, but daycare has some benefits.
 
onerepmaximum said:
I think there is something to be said for what daycare offers a child. It is good for kids to be around other kids. They learn things that can't otherwise (true, both good and bad). However, no one cares for a child like their parents do. My preference is to let them be at home, but daycare has some benefits.

Kids can be exposed to other kids in scenarios other than daycare. Plus they will probably be in pre-school at the age of 4 for part of the day anyway.
 
onerepmaximum said:
I think there is something to be said for what daycare offers a child. It is good for kids to be around other kids. They learn things that can't otherwise (true, both good and bad). However, no one cares for a child like their parents do. My preference is to let them be at home, but daycare has some benefits.

My daughter stays at home with a nanny. But she goes to play groups every day. Plus she goes to pre-school.

She gets more than enough interaction with kids her age.
Buuut, she's learned a lot from being around other kids. Most of it good.
 
I think pre-school is a crock. Why does anyone need to pay a professional to teach kids how to tie their shoes, get along with other kids and learn colors? Parents should teach that stuff. I think folks are a little to anxious to get the kids out of the house so they can have time to themselves. Pre-school is nothing but over-priced babysitting.
 
ttlpkg said:
I think pre-school is a crock. Why does anyone need to pay a professional to teach kids how to tie their shoes, get along with other kids and learn colors? Parents should teach that stuff. I think folks are a little to anxious to get the kids out of the house so they can have time to themselves. Pre-school is nothing but over-priced babysitting.

Depends on the pre-school. I remember my first day of pre-school, I didn't even look back and say goodbye to my mom.... I was so excited that there were tons of kids there (weren't many kids where I lived. during the day was with aunt/uncle or with grandparents). Although my pre-school was about playing, not much learning that I hadn't been taught at home. However, my brothers and sister went to a pre-school that was all about learning.
 
ttlpkg said:
I think pre-school is a crock. Why does anyone need to pay a professional to teach kids how to tie their shoes, get along with other kids and learn colors? Parents should teach that stuff. I think folks are a little to anxious to get the kids out of the house so they can have time to themselves. Pre-school is nothing but over-priced babysitting.

My child has learned math at pre-school, not sure where *you* went for pre-school :D
 
ttlpkg said:
I believe in the one-career family. I would rather have less income and have my kids be raised by their parents rather than by some day care worker for outrageous cost.

One man's humble opinion.

i know that is hard for a lot of people, but i believe the same thing.....
 
ttlpkg said:
I believe in the one-career family. I would rather have less income and have my kids be raised by their parents rather than by some day care worker for outrageous cost.

That is a great scenario...but unforunately it doesn't always work that way. Either because families simply can't afford it, or even possibly the parents enjoy their jobs enough that they don't want to quit. And there are also a ton of single parents that can not do this.

Honestly, I think it goes back to the whole quantity/ quality thing. Meaning I know a ton of stay at home parents that have the TV babysit there kids during the day. Yes they may be at home with their kids but they aren't really interacting with them. And then there are working parents that spend their time away from work enjoying their kids...going places, playing games ...teaching them new things, etc....

It all depends what the parents decide to do to make the best out of the situation at hand. And truthfully the kids will be happy either way...simply because kids are more "adaptive than adults".
 
toga22 said:


That is a great scenario...but unforunately it doesn't always work that way. Either because families simply can't afford it, or even possibly the parents enjoy their jobs enough that they don't want to quit. And there are also a ton of single parents that can not do this.

Honestly, I think it goes back to the whole quantity/ quality thing. Meaning I know a ton of stay at home parents that have the TV babysit there kids during the day. Yes they may be at home with their kids but they aren't really interacting with them. And then there are working parents that spend their time away from work enjoying their kids...going places, playing games ...teaching them new things, etc....

It all depends what the parents decide to do to make the best out of the situation at hand. And truthfully the kids will be happy either way...simply because kids are more "adaptive than adults".

If I wasn't married.....
 
toga22 said:


That is a great scenario...but unforunately it doesn't always work that way. Either because families simply can't afford it, or even possibly the parents enjoy their jobs enough that they don't want to quit.

I know of a lot of families who say they can't afford to stay home with their kids who have two late-model cars in their driveway and go out to eat several times a month. It's all about choices and priorities.
 
beastboy said:


Exactly...and nobody has a right to call one choice over the other better....in this situation.

Right. But I think many don't acknowledge that they have made a choice. They would rather say they can't afford for one to stay home when the truth is they've made a choice not to do so.
 
ttlpkg said:


Right. But I think many don't acknowledge that they have made a choice. They would rather say they can't afford for one to stay home when the truth is they've made a choice not to do so.

I agree on that point.
 
onerepmaximum said:
As many of you know, my wife recently gave birth to a little boy. We have a 4 year old little girl and I have a 7 year old boy from a previous marriage (I only get him on the weekends). My question is this, does $750 a month seem like a lot to pay for daycare for two kids? That's what we pay. My wife is an active duty Marine and the kids go to daycare on the base. We had talked about taking the kids out of base day care and letting one of our friends keep them for a much more reasonable price. We were informed yesterday that if someone keeps the kids who is not a certified child care provider, they will lose their base housing. It was our decision to have kids, so don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the responsibilities and costs associated with that. I'm just trying to get a gauge from you guys to see if we are getting screwed, or if this is what we can expect.

$750/month for a four year old an an infant is actually REALLY cheap.

The question should be what are they offering for the amount of money you are paying them? Is their staff caring for your children certified? Do they have any early childhood education training? Does the center have any accredidation? Do they follow developmentally appropiate practices? Are they understaffed? Do they have any filled complaints with the local children and families agency? Have they been cited for not compliying to laws or regulations?

These questions and more should be your concern if you are placing your child in a child care facility. I would be concerned over that before I worried about how much money I was spending on it.

Also, there is a BIG difference between daycares and preschools. Both may offer child care for infants through Pre-K. Daycare is like having a babysitter that sits and watches TV. Preschool is more structured. They follow a curriculum which promotes emotional, social, physical, and cognitive growth in children.
 
beastboy said:
My daughter is being taught how to read at the age of 4 at her pre-school.

You may think you have an awesome four year old, and I'm sure she is, but your child's preschool is teaching something that is developmentally inappropiate for a four year old child. This is also assuming she is closer to four than she is to five years old. When children are exposed to things that they are not ready for it can cause frustration and much worse it can cause your child to dislike learning which will in turn cause regression over time. Many children who are exposed to developmentally inappropiate tasks, skills, etc. regress emotionally, socially and cognitively. Meaning, for example, a four year may start acting like a two year old emotionally and socially.

Each age has developmental milestones. At four years old a child should know the following.

Physical Development

-Runs, jumps, hops, somersaults, may be able to skip
-Throws and catches a ball
-Swings and climbs
-Cuts on a line
-Copies geometric shapes (circles, squares, triangles, etc.)
-Draws a person with some body parts
-Dresses and undresses by self
-Usually toilet-trained completely
-Uses fork, spoon and dinner knife without assistance
-Brushes teeth


Cognitive Development

-Recalls parts of a story, tells own story
-Says name and address
-Can count ten or more objects
-Correctly names at least four colors
-Combines two or more sentences (orally)
-Understands meanings of words
-Makes of words and rhymes (orally)
-Asks questions (Why? How?)
-Follows simple rules

Social and Emotional Development

-Likes to imagine and is able to distinguish fantasy from reality
-Likes to sing, dance and act
-Is able to play with a group
-More likely to agree to rules, can begin to understand games
-Learns to express sympathy
-Shares with others
-Seeks out playmates
-Shows more independence
-Aware of sexuality (can differientiate between male and female)

Ideas For Parents

-Read to your child every day. Visit your local library and encourage your child to choose books. Encourage your child to tell you stories.
-Say nursery rhymes and fingerplays together. Sing songs.
Allow your child to practice writing. Have your child copy shapes, letters and numbers.
-Foster your child's creativity by allowing her to paint and color. Provide materials such as play dough, chalk, glue and crayons. Allow your child to use scraps to make collages.
-Praise your child's accomplishments. Foster independence by encouraging self-reliance.
-Encourage physical activity by playing follow the leader (run, jump, hop, skip and swing).
-Provide multicultural experiences and foster an attitude of acceptance for diversity.
-Expand dramatic play by providing a variety of props for themes such as grocery store, beauty salon, restaurant, and birthday parties.

What To Expect: School Readiness

Success in school readiness involves good health, being socially and emotionally mature, having good language, problem solving and creative thinking skills, and a general knowledge about the world.

Prepare your Child by Focusing On

Physical Well-Being: Be sure your child eats nutritious meals and gets plenty of sleep and exercise. Regular medical care and immunizations are important. Regular dental checkups should begin at age three.
Social and Emotional Preparation: Children are often not socially and emotionally mature when they enter kindergarten, but it is important that they have an opportunity to begin developing confidence, motivation, independence, curiosity, persistence, cooperation, self-control and empathy. You can help your child by setting good examples (e.g. treating everyone with respect and sharing). Your child will also know if you have a positive attitude toward learning and school. Encourage self-reliance to foster independence. Provide chances for your child to socialize with other children and adults who are not family members.

Language and General Knowledge

It is important for children to learn to solve problems and communicate with others. You can help foster these skills by providing opportunities to play, answering questions and listening to your child. Reading aloud and monitoring television viewing are also important.

School readiness depends on a combination of many aspects of child development. It does not mean your child needs to know the alphabet, colors, shapes, numbers and how to read.

Toys

dolls, puppets
balls
trucks, tractors, trains
blocks
dramatic play props
blunt scissors, washable markers, crayons, paint
sewing cards
simple board games
books
play dough
 
It's not really feasible anymore to have a one career household. The cost of living is too escalated. Also, how do you decide who should stay at home? It should not automatically be the wife that must lose her career. She's worked damn hard to get somewhere too.
 
PHATchik said:
It's not really feasible anymore to have a one career household. The cost of living is too escalated. Also, how do you decide who should stay at home? It should not automatically be the wife that must lose her career. She's worked damn hard to get somewhere too.

I love raising children. Do you want to get married and you can have the career?
 
biteme said:


I love raising children. Do you want to get married and you can have the career?

I want to get married, but I want us both to do what makes us happy. If you're asking if I intend to give up my journalism career, the answer is no. And yes, before you ask, I want to have children too. Also, I don't expect him to give up his career either. I suspect that we will be able to figure something out.
 
PHATchik said:


I want to get married, but I want us both to do what makes us happy. If you're asking if I intend to give up my journalism career, the answer is no. And yes, before you ask, I want to have children too. Also, I don't expect him to give up his career either. I suspect that we will be able to figure something out.

Well I don't mind giving up a career. You think about my proposal. The greatest times of my life were when my daughter was young and I would take her everywhere and play with her. I was watching video tapes the other day. I wouldn't take millions for them.
 
PHATchik said:


I want to get married, but I want us both to do what makes us happy. If you're asking if I intend to give up my journalism career, the answer is no. And yes, before you ask, I want to have children too. Also, I don't expect him to give up his career either. I suspect that we will be able to figure something out.

Well, as a single father, I just so happen to be taking applications.... :p LOL
 
biteme said:


Well I don't mind giving up a career. You think about my proposal. The greatest times of my life were when my daughter was young and I would take her everywhere and play with her. I was watching video tapes the other day. I wouldn't take millions for them.

Lol. I just got the proposal part in this post and the last. I'm slow today apparently.
 
PHATchik said:
It's not really feasible anymore to have a one career household. The cost of living is too escalated. Also, how do you decide who should stay at home? It should not automatically be the wife that must lose her career. She's worked damn hard to get somewhere too.


That`s me. I`m Mr. Mom. I watch our 19 month old girl during the day while my wife works. It IS harder with the finances, But I really like that one of us is watching her.

My income added to the pot AFTER taking away all the expenses like day care, transportation, (newer) clothes, eating out. etc... would probably bring home 200 a week extra. I`m not gonna work 40+ hours for that AND not be with my daughter instead of a stranger.
 
gonelifting said:



That`s me. I`m Mr. Mom. I watch our 19 month old girl during the day while my wife works. It IS harder with the finances, But I really like that one of us is watching her.

My income added to the pot AFTER taking away all the expenses like day care, transportation, (newer) clothes, eating out. etc... would probably bring home 200 a week extra. I`m not gonna work 40+ hours for that AND not be with my daughter instead of a stranger.

Good for you.
 
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:


You may think you have an awesome four year old, and I'm sure she is, but your child's preschool is teaching something that is developmentally inappropiate for a four year old child. This is also assuming she is closer to four than she is to five years old. When children are exposed to things that they are not ready for it can cause frustration and much worse it can cause your child to dislike learning which will in turn cause regression over time. Many children who are exposed to developmentally inappropiate tasks, skills, etc. regress emotionally, socially and cognitively. Meaning, for example, a four year may start acting like a two year old emotionally and socially.

Don't you think that's an overgeneralization?

I was reading at 4, as were all my sisters, and I think we all did fine.

Seems a little harsh to simply call it developmentally inappropriate without knowing anything about the child in question.
 
ttlpkg said:
I believe in the one-career family. I would rather have less income and have my kids be raised by their parents rather than by some day care worker for outrageous cost.

One man's humble opinion.

My opinion too, but until her tour of duty is up she has no choice as a mom.

This may inflame some, but a mother has no right being in a potential combat position. Its one thing for a dad to go lose his life, but it is completely wrong for a mother to risk that.
 
Generic MALE said:


My opinion too, but until her tour of duty is up she has no choice as a mom.

This may inflame some, but a mother has no right being in a potential combat position. Its one thing for a dad to go lose his life, but it is completely wrong for a mother to risk that.

What makes it ok for the father to get himself blown up?
 
PHATchik said:
It's not really feasible anymore to have a one career household. The cost of living is too escalated. Also, how do you decide who should stay at home? It should not automatically be the wife that must lose her career. She's worked damn hard to get somewhere too.

It is a lot more feasible now than it was for our parents and grandparents, and they managed. We now have cell phones, the internet, etc. It requires committment to do so, and maybe not having the Lexus and the Gucci.

The woman is of course better suited to stay home I think. She tends to be a better nurturer. Plus, it is not coincidence that she has the breasts. But in many cases it is the husband and that is ok too.
 
Generic MALE said:


My opinion too, but until her tour of duty is up she has no choice as a mom.

This may inflame some, but a mother has no right being in a potential combat position. Its one thing for a dad to go lose his life, but it is completely wrong for a mother to risk that.

If the mother isn't the primary caregiver, it doesn't matter.

Parents should do every damn thing they can to raise their children including joining the armed forces.
 
ttlpkg said:


It is a lot more feasible now than it was for our parents and grandparents, and they managed. We now have cell phones, the internet, etc. It requires committment to do so, and maybe not having the Lexus and the Gucci.

The woman is of course better suited to stay home I think. She tends to be a better nurturer. Plus, it is not coincidence that she has the breasts. But in many cases it is the husband and that is ok too.

The cost of living is much higher now, partially because of some of the things that you mentioned, i.e. cell phones, the internet, etc. Even without the Gucci and the Lexus, it can be incredibly hard to sustain a household on one income in today's society.
 
PHATchik said:


The cost of living is much higher now, partially because of some of the things that you mentioned, i.e. cell phones, the internet, etc. Even without the Gucci and the Lexus, it can be incredibly hard to sustain a household on one income in today's society.

The price of gas, food and most other products are lower now adjusted for inflation than they were back in the fifties and sixties. We take many luxuries for granted nowadays. Two cars, multiple TVs with cable, internet connection, cell phones and DVD players are considered necessesities by most, when of course they are not.

People choose two have two career families because they would rather have all of these things than stay home with thier children.
 
ttlpkg said:


The price of gas, food and most other products are lower now adjusted for inflation than they were back in the fifties and sixties. We take many luxuries for granted nowadays. Two cars, multiple TVs with cable, internet connection, cell phones and DVD players are considered necessesities by most, when of course they are not.

People choose two have two career families because they would rather have all of these things than stay home with thier children.

You should probably add pets, presents, TVs period, etc in your list. These are things that aren't really needed either, but humans feel like we have to have them anyway.
 
What cracks me up is that pre-school has become such the norm that now folks who don't send their kids off to pre-school at age 4 consider themselves "homeschoolers".
 
TheProject said:


Don't you think that's an overgeneralization?

I was reading at 4, as were all my sisters, and I think we all did fine.

Seems a little harsh to simply call it developmentally inappropriate without knowing anything about the child in question.

I never stated that all four year old children would experience frustrations, difficulty or regression if they were exposed to reading at four years old, when it is developmentally inappropiate.

My point in stating that was simply that a place providing a service at a fee such as is the case with his child's daycare since he is paying $150/wk. should follow developmentally appropiate practices.

Some four year olds may be developmentally ahead where they are able to handle learning an advanced task such as reading at that age. However, not all will be ready to learn how to read at that age.

To determine a child's developmental age you have to take into consideration if the child was premature, had any delays in speech and/or hearing as well as other factors. A child who is four years old chronologically may not be four years old developmentally.

Just because you and your siblings were reading at four years old does not mean that all other four years old will be able to handle reading. Children are all different. What works for one may or may not work for another.
 
superdave said:


My bet is you will not get married nor find a man who is willing to sacrifice his career in order for him to stay at home with the kids. If you are upfront with the men you are dating and tell them you want kids but dont want to raise them then I dont think you will find a man with good values. As much as you dont want to face it, the fact remains that a woman is better suited for raising children than a man, instead of just "figuring something out". Centuries of civilization have proven that, and it is very noble and honorable by the way (in case you thought your journalism career carries more wieght than raising good children who contribute positively to society and so forth).

Whoa, I never said I didn't want to raise my kids. I believe that can be done with me having a career at the same time. After my parents divorced, my mother put herself through college and then found a job. I ended up staying with my grandmother during the day until I started school. I happen to think I turned out pretty damn good, even though my mom obviously wanted kids but didn't want to raise them, as you so aptly put it.

Secondly, I do not expect a man to sacrifice his career. Why should I expect him to do what I don't want to do? Also, don't ever accuse me of putting anything over my future children. You don't know me, nor do you know what I value in life. And also, don't expect that no guy will understand my feelings or what I want. That would be another thing that you would be wrong on.
 
superdave said:


My bet is you will not get married nor find a man who is willing to sacrifice his career in order for him to stay at home with the kids. If you are upfront with the men you are dating and tell them you want kids but dont want to raise them then I dont think you will find a man with good values. As much as you dont want to face it, the fact remains that a woman is better suited for raising children than a man, instead of just "figuring something out". Centuries of civilization have proven that, and it is very noble and honorable by the way (in case you thought your journalism career carries more wieght than raising good children who contribute positively to society and so forth).

You are full of shit. Talk about stereotyping. Some men are great with children. I bet you're a fan of Rush Limbaugh or Archie Bunker.
 
ttlpkg said:


Right. But I think many don't acknowledge that they have made a choice. They would rather say they can't afford for one to stay home when the truth is they've made a choice not to do so.

I really don't think that a person can say that someone is a better parent because they choose to stay at home with their kids. They made this choice not really because it made their kids feel better with the situation...but it made themselves feel better.

And I also do not think a person should view their child situation in terms of "the sacrifices" they have made. Kids are not sacrifices...they are rewards. My feeling is that if you view the choices you make as sacrifices, you are building regret...not for your kids but for your choices... And this may come out later in their life, in a moment of "heat".
 
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:


I never stated that all four year old children would experience frustrations, difficulty or regression if they were exposed to reading at four years old, when it is developmentally inappropiate.

My point in stating that was simply that a place providing a service at a fee such as is the case with his child's daycare since he is paying $150/wk. should follow developmentally appropiate practices.

Some four year olds may be developmentally ahead where they are able to handle learning an advanced task such as reading at that age. However, not all will be ready to learn how to read at that age.

To determine a child's developmental age you have to take into consideration if the child was premature, had any delays in speech and/or hearing as well as other factors. A child who is four years old chronologically may not be four years old developmentally.

Just because you and your siblings were reading at four years old does not mean that all other four years old will be able to handle reading. Children are all different. What works for one may or may not work for another.

The school is only beginning this stage with my daughter and one other little girl.

My daughter is bored with TV....all she wants to do is "homework" (this is just what she calls it, the school isn't sending work home with her)...she will sit for hours asking how to spell words. She opens up books and looks at the pictures and then makes up her own stories.

Nothing is being pushed on her.....she is ready and loves it. I was the same way as a kid. I loved school and homework...the more the better.
 
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nvrbuffenuff_girl said:


I never stated that all four year old children would experience frustrations, difficulty or regression if they were exposed to reading at four years old, when it is developmentally inappropiate.

My point in stating that was simply that a place providing a service at a fee such as is the case with his child's daycare since he is paying $150/wk. should follow developmentally appropiate practices.

Some four year olds may be developmentally ahead where they are able to handle learning an advanced task such as reading at that age. However, not all will be ready to learn how to read at that age.

To determine a child's developmental age you have to take into consideration if the child was premature, had any delays in speech and/or hearing as well as other factors. A child who is four years old chronologically may not be four years old developmentally.

Just because you and your siblings were reading at four years old does not mean that all other four years old will be able to handle reading. Children are all different. What works for one may or may not work for another.

That's precisely my point; children are all different, yet you're making a blanket statement about what is developmentally appropriate for 4 year olds.

Based on beastboy's second post, it sounds to me like they adapt the curriculum based on the needs of the child.
 
TheProject said:


That's precisely my point; children are all different, yet you're making a blanket statement about what is developmentally appropriate for 4 year olds.

Based on beastboy's second post, it sounds to me like they adapt the curriculum based on the needs of the child.

Sticking up for me and paying for plat for ColonCowboy? Did Wal-Mart have a special on shining armor?
 
beastboy said:


Sticking up for me and paying for plat for ColonCowboy? Did Wal-Mart have a special on shining armor?

:FRlol:

Nah, man...I wasn't really sticking up for you. I just have certain things I have strong opinions about.
 
toga22 said:


I really don't think that a person can say that someone is a better parent because they choose to stay at home with their kids. They made this choice not really because it made their kids feel better with the situation...but it made themselves feel better.

And I also do not think a person should view their child situation in terms of "the sacrifices" they have made. Kids are not sacrifices...they are rewards. My feeling is that if you view the choices you make as sacrifices, you are building regret...not for your kids but for your choices... And this may come out later in their life, in a moment of "heat".

Kids benefit from having a parent at home. This is a fact. It is indeed a sacrifice when you give up something you want for the sake of your children. There should be no regret because it is a choice based on love. I appreciate the sacrifices my parents made for me, and I'm sure my kids will (in fact, I know they already do) appreciate the sacrifices my wife makes daily.

Where we are hurting I think is that society doesn't appreciate stay-at-home moms like I think they deserve to be appreciated.
 
I think I'm just gonna buy one of those back pack harness things and walk around with him all day. I think that as long as I keep his diaper changed, no one will care.
 
ttlpkg said:


Kids benefit from having a parent at home. This is a fact.

I disagree. Our best friends have a parent home....the children are complete brats...no respect...behind in skills, and have socializing problems. Not saying this is common....but I wouldn't call your statement a fact.
 
beastboy said:


I disagree. Our best friends have a parent home....the children are complete brats...no respect...behind in skills, and have socializing problems. Not saying this is common....but I wouldn't call your statement a fact.
True that, not all parents are created equal.
 
Going back to the day care expenses issue for the original poster.

You can check if you have an MSA at work (Medical Savings Account) It allows you to put pre-tax dollars into the account straight from your paycheck like a 401k. I`m not sure of the max contribution. 5-6k

If you know how much you`re going to spend during the year on "out of pocket" medical expenses and childcare, You can use that money PRE TAX for these services. So if you are in the 28% tax bracket, You`ll save 28% on your child care.

I used it last year and it was`nt too bad.
 
gonelifting said:
Going back to the day care expenses issue for the original poster.

You can check if you have an MSA at work (Medical Savings Account) It allows you to put pre-tax dollars into the account straight from your paycheck like a 401k. I`m not sure of the max contribution. 5-6k

If you know how much you`re going to spend during the year on "out of pocket" medical expenses and childcare, You can use that money PRE TAX for these services. So if you are in the 28% tax bracket, You`ll save 28% on your child care.

I used it last year and it was`nt too bad.
I'll have to check. That would be seperate from the regular insurance? Or if you have insurance, would you still have an MSA?
 
Code said:


My child has learned math at pre-school, not sure where *you* went for pre-school :D

The only math a pre-schooler needs (if any) can and should be taught by any parent who has an 8th grade level education and a sense of patience. As far as where I attended pre-school, I don't think it existed back in the stone ages when I was a kid, and I probably didn't really start learning math until 1st or 2d grade.

Didn't stop me from getting a degree in Mathematics. But who knows? Maybe I wouldn't have struggled through Abstract Algebra, Differential Equations and Real Number Analysis had I gone to pre-school...
 
beastboy said:


I disagree. Our best friends have a parent home....the children are complete brats...no respect...behind in skills, and have socializing problems. Not saying this is common....but I wouldn't call your statement a fact.

You're right BB, that was a generalization. Studies do show that children benefit from having a parent at home. Clearly there are many children who would be better off if mommy or daddy were out of the loop.
 
onerepmaximum said:
I'll have to check. That would be seperate from the regular insurance? Or if you have insurance, would you still have an MSA?


Yes, You can have both.

Needless to say, You have to read the "rules" carefully. If you don`t use the money within the year you LOSE it. So it`s better to underestimate how much to put away than overestimate.

It`s not that difficult though. People have reaccuring payments like prescriptions (copay) and doctor vists (copay) eyeglasses, DAYCARE, I Think a Nanny would be covered also.

So let`s say you KNOW that you`ll be using daycare next year at xx amount per week. You`re set. You`ll save the tax you would have payed on the income.

I used it for glasses for my wife and I $800, DR. copayments 2-300, Prescriptions 2-300 copays, etc. It came to about 1800 I think. I sent them the receipts and they sent me the check.
 
ttlpkg said:


Kids benefit from having a parent at home. This is a fact.

Actually, no it is not a fact. There is pages of research that prove that "there are no developmental differences (including child's self-esteem, mental development and behavior) in children with either working or non-working mother's."


And as far as pre-school education goes...any skills a child can learn before entering kindergarten will only benenfit their success in school. Here in Wisconsin, children by the end of 1st grade are expected to have mastered not only addition and subtraction to 18 (# that add to 18) but also the mulitiplication table for 0-9. By the beginning of 2nd grade kids are expected to be able to read "chapter books" (books that are @100 pages) At the end of 1st, 2nd and 4th grade they are given a state test which takes a week in length proving these skills...and if they do not pass. No matter what the teacher believes about the child...the child will not advance to the next grade in school.
 
toga22 said:


Actually, no it is not a fact. There is pages of research that prove that "there are no developmental differences (including child's self-esteem, mental development and behavior) in children with either working or non-working mother's."


And as far as pre-school education goes...any skills a child can learn before entering kindergarten will only benenfit their success in school. Here in Wisconsin, children by the end of 1st grade are expected to have mastered not only addition and subtraction to 18 (# that add to 18) but also the mulitiplication table for 0-9. By the beginning of 2nd grade kids are expected to be able to read "chapter books" (books that are @100 pages) At the end of 1st, 2nd and 4th grade they are given a state test which takes a week in length proving these skills...and if they do not pass. No matter what the teacher believes about the child...the child will not advance to the next grade in school.

I'm sure some grad student or liberal arts professor can produce "pages of research" to come to that conclusion, but in a poll by Survey USA, 73% of moms surveyed said being a two income family doesn’t allow enough time with the kids, and 87% said they would prefer to be home.

They are over-resourcing education for pre-schoolers in WI, spending tax dollars to do so, and creating more administrative jobs. What are the results of this over spending? WI public schools are notorious for being avoided altogether by its citizens. It is one of the first states to offer the voucher system to facilitate the hundreds of parents pulling their kids out of the public schools.

Formal learning is overrated for young children. My oldest daughter saw her first day of public school in 7th grade. She was homeschooled by my wife who has a high school diploma. She is now the number one student academically in her 500-student sophmore class at High School.

I don't think it can be disputed that the best possible scenario for any kid is to grow up with both parents living together, with mom staying at home.

Bottom line: I think any kid will benefit from spending more time at home with a loving parent and siblings learning the ABCs, how to tie shoes, how to behave, how to conduct personal hygiene, etc rather than strap on a backpack and board a bus daily so that some 23 year old stranger can do the parent's job for them.
 
Damn. I wish I could afford to have my kids home schooled. I think that home schooling could provide better education then the public / private system as there is a vested interested in the children rathen then either just passing them (public) or your money (private).
 
ttlpkg said:
I believe in the one-career family. I would rather have less income and have my kids be raised by their parents rather than by some day care worker for outrageous cost.

One man's humble opinion.

Damn ttlpkg, where have you been??? Still boxing??
 
ttlpkg said:


I've been out of the loop for a while, but I'm back now. Haven't boxed lately either. Maybe next spring I'll pick it up again.

I thought you might have gotten shipped off to iraq or some shit.
 
timrock said:
$180 a week for one child under 13/mo where i stay. thats why my old lady stays home.


It was $200/week at my wife`s hospital. That was supposed to be a discount for employees of the hospital. lol

It does get cheaper as they get older I think.
 
i hate day cares, they think they can rape us because most people don't have a choice about daycare. and they are too busy losing kids or forgetting them in hot cars......
 
ttlpkg said:
I believe in the one-career family. I would rather have less income and have my kids be raised by their parents rather than by some day care worker for outrageous cost.

One man's humble opinion.

And now days a lot of people dont understand that you can often save money (or have almost as much) with a one-career family. Some people can save nearly as much as they make, plus they get to spend tons more time with thier kids.
 
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