For Open Minded Thinkers Only

jubei · Jul 7, 2003

JA, you and nelson are still going at it? Time for the inagural EF celeberty grudge match. In this corner weighing in at....

Nelson Montana · Jul 7, 2003

This is absolutely facinating. I'm the one who gets blamed for upsetting threads? I'm accused of destroying my own thread? People were responding favorably to it until JA showed up, but I'm to blame again. Okay, whatever.

FS: How do I respond to an insult? By ignoring it. It isn't worth my time nor is it worth dignifying with a response. Follow this thread FS, and you will see that I have not flamed anyone, yet everyone of JA's posts are flames, including his infantile "negative karma" for anyone who disagrees with me. Come on. You know it.This person is a child. And quite frankly, anyone who doesn't see that is a fool. Consider that a flame if you like. But to tell you the truth, I'm bored with the whole thing. Cardio on an empty stomach is the greatest thing since the invention of dianabol. Happy?

Fukkenshredded · Jul 8, 2003

Nelson, I was simply agreeing with you that ignoring an insult is the best policy.

Also, it is not my intention to persuade you of anything. I would much rather learn from you than have you acquiesce out of fatigue.

jubei · Jul 8, 2003

fukkenshredded, your posts are a bit verbose, don't you think?

flexed1 · Jul 8, 2003

Oh by the way the flaw in your study . You can't prove that the red heads where given the same test so this study is useless. (lol)

Fukkenshredded · Jul 8, 2003

Interesting observation, Jubei. I try to be as clear and concise as possible.

Upon review, however, you are indeed correct and I read like a long-winded fool at times.

Perhaps there is some redemption in the fact that I have posted here less than 400 times in three years...

As to this issue, I got into this thinking that there would be some valuable discussion, and that I could offer some substance for review. In retrospect, however, I wish I would have worded many things differently.

I did delete a rather poignant and unnecessary post not to far back in this thread, for what its worth. Luckily only a few viewers had to endure it...lol

Your observation makes me inclined to go back to my ways of quietude and sparse posting.

In fact, I think I'll start now.

Juice Authority · Jul 8, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
This is absolutely facinating. I'm the one who gets blamed for upsetting threads? I'm accused of destroying my own thread? People were responding favorably to it until JA showed up, but I'm to blame again. Okay, whatever.

FS: How do I respond to an insult? By ignoring it. It isn't worth my time nor is it worth dignifying with a response. Follow this thread FS, and you will see that I have not flamed anyone, yet everyone of JA's posts are flames, including his infantile "negative karma" for anyone who disagrees with me. Come on. You know it.This person is a child. And quite frankly, anyone who doesn't see that is a fool. Consider that a flame if you like. But to tell you the truth, I'm bored with the whole thing. Cardio on an empty stomach is the greatest thing since the invention of dianabol. Happy?

That's it, retreat and surrender. Far be it for you to actually post some real evidence to back up your theories. Go ahead, blame it on me, the board or whatever else you can drum up as your excuse for backing down.

Lestat · Jul 8, 2003

That really sucks that you delete that post.. I was looking forward to reading it again when I had more time.

Did you save it?

Juice Authority · Jul 8, 2003

Lestat said:
That really sucks that you delete that post.. I was looking forward to reading it again when I had more time.

Did you save it?

It was a classic. FS basically tore Nelson a new one. I was very disappointed that he deleted it.

sk* · Jul 8, 2003

flexed1 said:
Oh by the way the flaw in your study . You can't prove that the red heads where given the same test so this study is useless. (lol)

Exactly! There is a fine line between analyzing a study and criticizing it just for the hell of criticizing it.

-sk

Juice Authority · Jul 8, 2003

sk* said:
Exactly! There is a fine line between analyzing a study and criticizing it just for the hell of criticizing it.

-sk

Once again Nelson goes down in a blaze of shame. When is this guy going to learn, when his book sales drop to zero??

sk* · Jul 8, 2003

Juice Authority said:
Once again Nelson goes down in a blaze of shame. When is this guy going to learn, when his book sales drop to zero??

I really don't have anything against nelson. Just think sometimes he takes it a little too far.

I said it before two times and i'll say it again:

WE DO NOT LIVE IN A VACUME NOR CAN ANY STUDY BE DONE IN A VACUME!

-sk

jubei · Jul 8, 2003

Fukkenshredded, no redemption necessary. The posts I have read by you are very good, just some constructive criticism from somebody who used to have the same problem.

jboldman · Jul 8, 2003

JA, read my post again, that is exactly my point!

jb

Juice Authority said:
Bro, Nelson's failure to respond with evidence that supports his opinion/conclusions has nothing to do with poorly designed studies, misguided members who believe everything they read, or mean individuals whose sole purpose in life is to harass him. Nelson simply cannot find the evidence in question because it usually doesn't exist other than in his own mind. The evidence is his "experience", which is laughable at best. He purposely starts threads like this to draw attention to his theories, which are by their very nature, controversial and then he whines and complains that people are attacking him when solid evidence is presented to the contrary in the form of controlled studies that refute his position. It's really infantile and I hope he grows up one day.

Look what he's doing here. He's using me as the scapegoat to avoid addressing the issues at hand because he knows that he can't back up his position. It's really sad.

Lumberg · Jul 8, 2003

Juice Authority, I often agree with you but you do seem to be stalking Nelson and glowing and yapping every time someone brings up a point against Nelson. The level of discourse on this thread WAS high, but you seem to chime in to bring it down.

I don't agree with Nelson any more than you do but I'm starting to find you more and more tiring. So your plan is basically backfiring. Give it a rest already.

Wrongun · Jul 8, 2003

The point that some do not agree with all Nelsons view is fine but he does offer an alternative aspect of AAS. Some i agree with some i don't but unless you explore all aspects how can you contemplate increasing your knowledge and reaching personal goals.

JA i have to say and i have read many of your posts this attack on every Nelson thread has become boring and disruptive for many that wish to read a good debate of apposing views and beliefs. This will only serve to stop people posting and hence bring the board down.

Everyone has different views and posting styles. Nelsons is one and if it aggrevates you so much then do not read and move on to another thread.

Your constant attacking of every thread just disrupts it and no real information is ever concluded.

I noted Ulter commenst that this thread is what Elite used to be all about 2-3 years ago but the since then it has degenerated into teh Elite of the last 6 months!

For the sake of all of us JA and Nelson give it a rest

Wrongun!

Lift Chief · Jul 8, 2003

Fukkenshredded said:
Interesting observation, Jubei. I try to be as clear and concise as possible.

Upon review, however, you are indeed correct and I read like a long-winded fool at times.

Perhaps there is some redemption in the fact that I have posted here less than 400 times in three years...

As to this issue, I got into this thinking that there would be some valuable discussion, and that I could offer some substance for review. In retrospect, however, I wish I would have worded many things differently.

I did delete a rather poignant and unnecessary post not to far back in this thread, for what its worth. Luckily only a few viewers had to endure it...lol

Your observation makes me inclined to go back to my ways of quietude and sparse posting.

In fact, I think I'll start now.

Seems like an over-reaction IMHO.... you have made some great posts on this thread and you're an asset to the board. It would be a mistake for you to look at what he said as a reason for you to post less- look at the positive comments you've gotten.

Lift Chief · Jul 8, 2003

JA- Nelson is over sensitive to your comments but you do jump on him every chance you get. It would be nice if we could have continued this discussion the way it was on the first 2 pages.

Juice Authority · Jul 8, 2003

Ok guys, you're right. It was a good discussion that went downhill. I apologize for my part in that. Carry on....

speedy7 · Jul 8, 2003

Silent Method said:
This is an odd question.

The "double blind" aspect of some studies is simply one factor utilized in some study design. In and of itself, it does not guarantee any specific degree of validity.

I mean the studies where one group gets a placebo and others get real thing. These positive results from these studies, are they not trustworthy???

Zyglamail · Jul 8, 2003

jubei said:
fukkenshredded, your posts are a bit verbose, don't you think?

On Fukkenshredded's behalf, I think that sometimes things have to simply be spelled out as to avoid others from reading into what he is saying. Nelson has complained that people are making assumptions on his comments and they very well could be but his sensationalism and lack of backing seem to encourage people to "read into it" which in turn often leads to incorrect assumptions. I think Fukkenshredded simply wanted to make sure his point was made as intended and didnt offer a lot of room for "inturpretation".

Lumberg · Jul 8, 2003

well for example the redhead study first used as an example could be set up as a double blind, meaning the people scoring the test wouldn't know the hair color of the person taking it. And the people taking the test wouldn't know what the experiment was for.

But the results would still be invalid due to the low number of observations.

Iron Gator · Jul 8, 2003

Hey, FS, keep it up. Your posts while long, are concise, well thought out, and grammatically correct. Nelson, you have some interesting ideas but act like a bitch when someone offers anything but support for your views and admiration for your work. Also Nelson, do a spell check before you post. JA you remind me of my older brother.... Keep up the good work!!!

Iron Gator

Fukkenshredded · Jul 8, 2003

Don't worry--I'm not taking my toys and going home. I'm just acknowledging that at times I tend to get redundant. I think that's what Jubei was pointing out--it wasn't taken as a criticism.

Juice Authority · Jul 8, 2003

Fukkenshredded said:
Don't worry--I'm not taking my toys and going home. I'm just acknowledging that at times I tend to get redundant. I think that's what Jubei was pointing out--it wasn't taken as a criticism.

It's members like you the add most of the value. Be as verbose as you want. The content of the information is what's valuable here.

bbkingpin · Jul 8, 2003

Zyglamail said:
On Fukkenshredded's behalf, I think that sometimes things have to simply be spelled out as to avoid others from reading into what he is saying. Nelson has complained that people are making assumptions on his comments and they very well could be but his sensationalism and lack of backing seem to encourage people to "read into it" which in turn often leads to incorrect assumptions. I think Fukkenshredded simply wanted to make sure his point was made as intended and didnt offer a lot of room for "inturpretation".

interpretation

Zoomster · Jul 8, 2003

Change the story..most of you don't even know what real world experience is..what a bunch of bunk.

raydogg · Jul 8, 2003

Hey fellas........can you keep your posts shorter........for us mentally challenged folks/tired folks who work for a living?

ProteinFiend · Jul 9, 2003

well, in short defense of nelson, he is correct that it doesnt matter WHEN you do cardio in terms of calories burned. The same AMOUNT of calories are burned in the night, morning, or afternoon; full stomach or empty stomach. You will be burning some calories, whats the difference if they are stored calories or calories that will be stored within hours? SO, if your goal is to lose WEIGHT, do ANY kind of cardio, as it will be equally effective. If your goal is to lose FAT, thats a different story....

People tend to use FAT and WEIGHT synonymously. Well in the presence of an insulin spike, you WILL NOT be losing any FAT. Maybe weight, whether carbs, muscle, or whatever, but not any appreciable amount of fat. But i guess this is where it gets tricky...

I honestly don't know what the body burns when proteins or fats are eaten and exercise is carried out (and it seems like no one does...) So if anyone could enlighten me here, it would be appreciated. But my main point was the FAT/WEIGHT distinction.

Enjoy

ToxicTower · Jul 9, 2003

This has been interesting to say the least! Along with the Cardio thread.

All of you have brought up some positive info as well as confusion Nelson, JA and FS, I hope neither pack their toys and run home. Just simply agree to disagree. Make your point in a non flamin way. That way us poor non informed novices can benefit form your knowledge and experience. Convictions are much harder to change than opinions, jsut ask anyone who has been convicted.

Point to be noted is that Knowledge + Experience = Wisdom Shouldn't this be our ultimate goal within the AAS/Supp arena, to gain wisdom so that we reach our physical goals.

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Titus 3:9

TT

Wrongun · Jul 9, 2003

ToxicTower said:
Point to be noted is that Knowledge + Experience = Wisdom Shouldn't this be our ultimate goal within the AAS/Supp arena, to gain wisdom so that we reach our physical goals.

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Titus 3:9

TT

Agree 100% well put Bro

Wrongun!

Enigmaxxx7 · Jul 9, 2003

What will be the next "great" thread on the ANABOLIC DISCUSSION BOARD?

The Validity of Quantum Physics?

The meaning of life?

The price of eggs in China?

Can we please try to get back to ANABOLICS, diet and exercise?

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