first HST work out... WOW!

[TheOak84]

10 min warmup on threadmill

10 min ab work out

the rep tempo i did was 3 down 3 up, 0 rest at top and bottom. im totally not used to training like this, it was kind of rough

Squats x 2 - 195
SLDL x 1 - 130
Calf Raise x 2 - 135
Bench press x 2 - 175
incline press x 1 - 105
*real weary, 5 min break*
BB Rows x 2 - 105
Pull down x 1 - 105
Military x 2 - 85
DB Shrug x 2 - 75
over head ext x 2 - 55
bb curl x 2 - 45

my nervous system was so dead i was shaking everytime i tried to stablize my self to do an exercise.

i left with a real good pump my workout partner had just the same feeling as me.

if it was this rough the first day, i cant imagine the next work out

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Actually, it gets much easier. When you decondition, it's rather rough on the body to jump back into working out. Your CNS isn't used to the workload. Give it another two workouts. You'll be back to normal.

 

[TheOak84]

Actually, it gets much easier. When you decondition, it's rather rough on the body to jump back into working out. Your CNS isn't used to the workload. Give it another two workouts. You'll be back to normal.

i think it was fucked up because i fell asleep at 7 am and woke up at 12 pm.

i was real shakey though, i dunno y, im ok now though, just tired

 

[aerowana]

Training so slowly with that 3-tempo will build bodybuilder muscles, but will also make you slow. Train slow, be slow.

 

[JKurz1]

this 10 reps? or 15?

 

[Tom Treutlein]

15. You start out with 15's, then go to 10's, then finally drop to 5's. Constantly following an upward trend in intensity to combat the repeated bout effect (the idea that the muscle become increasingly resistant to the tension placed upon them).

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Aero, who told you that? Whoever it is, slap them. You won't get "bodybuilder muscles" if you slow down your reps. Muscles are muscles bro. They don't know how to change their fashion and design to look different. They know to react to a stimulus, that stimulus being weight placed upon them, and to respond by growth to adapt to the new load to protect itself from breaking down against it in the future.

 

[JKurz1]

Aero, who told you that? Whoever it is, slap them. You won't get "bodybuilder muscles" if you slow down your reps. Muscles are muscles bro. They don't know how to change their fashion and design to look different. They know to react to a stimulus, that stimulus being weight placed upon them, and to respond by growth to adapt to the new load to protect itself from breaking down against it in the future.

Actually, slow controlled movement is greatly benefitial............prevents cheating for one, and I've found it to yield much greater results.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Well to stop you from cheating is one thing, but the idea that it gives "bodybuilder" muscles is what I was attacked. Muscles are muscles. Greater results due to more time under tension, I'd guess. Still, people grow from explosive weights in which the muscle is under little tension. Look at CCJ.

 

[Lord_Suston]

Aero, who told you that? Whoever it is, slap them. You won't get "bodybuilder muscles" if you slow down your reps. Muscles are muscles bro. They don't know how to change their fashion and design to look different. They know to react to a stimulus, that stimulus being weight placed upon them, and to respond by growth to adapt to the new load to protect itself from breaking down against it in the future.

Sorry Tom, muscle aren't just muscle. There are different fiber types that twitch at different rates of contraction. Form equals function by training slow the pathway used If over 10-15sec (could be off here a little) is mainly ATP, Creatine, Pyruvic acid. After 15sec to about 2-3 minutes is mostly glycolysis, after 5 min is mostly oxidative, each muscle fiber type (there are three classes) uses a distainct pathway more efficiently than the other fibers. So by training in the time range 15-60 sec is mostly a Pink fiber (IIa-?)type which promotes good size gains and oxidative ability, but not as much speed and power output as white fibers. Also there is an issue of CNS training, when you train slow the muscle fibers are "taught" not to fire all at once since the musclular contraction has to be longer . I'll put it in one simple anology: if training with a 3,0,3 cadence is helpful with peak power then why don't most top powerlifters train that way, it would be safer then heavy triples and singles, they don't because the need explosive power...


You are right in the part progressive resistance will add muscle, so can the CNS as well

 

[TheOak84]

so suston - is this training gonna screw over the power i already have?

 

[jwwpua]

I'd suggest a slow negative (such as 3, like you're doing), but be explosive on the positive. That way, you get the benefit of extended time under tension, but you don't hurt your explosiveness. As we all know, the faster you push the weight, the more force you'll exert.

And isn't the negative motion more hypertrophic than the positive? If so, then doing a slow positive probably won't affect your hypertrophy much (if at all).

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Sorry Tom, muscle aren't just muscle. There are different fiber types that twitch at different rates of contraction. Form equals function by training slow the pathway used If over 10-15sec (could be off here a little) is mainly ATP, Creatine, Pyruvic acid. After 15sec to about 2-3 minutes is mostly glycolysis, after 5 min is mostly oxidative, each muscle fiber type (there are three classes) uses a distainct pathway more efficiently than the other fibers. So by training in the time range 15-60 sec is mostly a Pink fiber (IIa-?)type which promotes good size gains and oxidative ability, but not as much speed and power output as white fibers. Also there is an issue of CNS training, when you train slow the muscle fibers are "taught" not to fire all at once since the musclular contraction has to be longer . I'll put it in one simple anology: if training with a 3,0,3 cadence is helpful with peak power then why don't most top powerlifters train that way, it would be safer then heavy triples and singles, they don't because the need explosive power...


You are right in the part progressive resistance will add muscle, so can the CNS as well

school these young lads!!

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I used to hear the same Suston, but I'm still trying to find the article that says otherwise. I heard an analogy which was basically, saying you can hit one type without the other was like saying you can hit 50 MPH without ever hitting 30. Something along those lines.

If I'm wrong, so be it. All good.

 

[casualbb]

No, tom, you're right. Training for fiber type is bunk, they all grow under light through heavy loads.

But training slow will make you slow through other systems, chiefly the energy continuum and lower rate of force production (a CNS effect).

These can be counteracted by training with explosive positives, so that's what I'd recommend.

 

[casualbb]

Oh, and just as an afterthought, if muscle size alone is your only goal, then rep cadence doesn't matter as long as it's not really slow and you control the negative.

But if you want some strength and speed, speeding up the positive will help a lot. It's something where doing it can only help, you might as well.

 

[TheOak84]

No, tom, you're right. Training for fiber type is bunk, they all grow under light through heavy loads.

But training slow will make you slow through other systems, chiefly the energy continuum and lower rate of force production (a CNS effect).

These can be counteracted by training with explosive positives, so that's what I'd recommend.

so on hst, do recommend 2-3 second negative and explode up?

do u think u get a better workout on the positive or the negative, (which most people perform like shit). or the same amount of stress on both?

 

[wnt2bBeast]

No, tom, you're right. Training for fiber type is bunk, they all grow under light through heavy loads.

But training slow will make you slow through other systems, chiefly the energy continuum and lower rate of force production (a CNS effect).

These can be counteracted by training with explosive positives, so that's what I'd recommend.

Bro i know your a mod but i would like for you to debate Chris Aceto (works with Cutler) and others about fiber recruitment..your spreading half truths!!!!!!

 

[Debaser]

As if Jay Cutler's training methods are science-based.

Other than the science of massive amounts of pharmaceuticals and supreme genetic endowment.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

its about results bro..isnt that why you train anyway this is getting rediculous and i dont want hijack oaks thread any more so im gonna start a new thread with an article you can read post thoughts whatever!!!

 

[Debaser]

I've read all about fiber-type. But a lot of it is mere conjecture, actual studies performed support Casual's statements.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

I've read all about fiber-type. But a lot of it is mere conjecture, actual studies performed support Casual's statements.

well like i said i made a new thread it is up already with te article..go ahead and rip it apart over there lets leave oak's thread to the subject!

 

[Slyder190]

HST was not my cup of tea.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

HST was not my cup of tea.

More info likes/ dislikes/ results??

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Sounds like ya had a good sound workout Oak,..Congrats!! Winded the snot outta ya too didn't it?!?! hehehe (doin the 15's,..winded the snot outta us)

Went through it twice myself and saw some pretty decent gains, although I wish I had been eating a helluva lot more than I was,..sure I woulda seen a lot more gains if I had been. I followed the "Eating For Size" part of the HST program (actually pretty muched followed the whole program to a "T") and while based on scientific results, I shoulda uppped the calories based on a more personal level.

We also did a 3-5 sec on the negatives and were Explosive on the positives, and even though its more of a mass building routine our PR's had gone up going into the second cycle, so there are strength gains to be made as well.

I will most likely be trying it again late next Fall or early Winter, and would recomend it to BB types lookin' to add some mass.

I'm 36 (today) and my workout partner is 38 and the shakes never did subside for us during the 15's like TT said,..Was pretty fun though and loved the pumps.

 

[casualbb]

so on hst, do recommend 2-3 second negative and explode up?

do u think u get a better workout on the positive or the negative, (which most people perform like shit). or the same amount of stress on both?

I'm not sure what you mean...

I do the positives explosively and the negatives probably 2-3 full seconds. The negatives are what cause damage anyway... so it makes sense to push explosively because you don't waste energy on slow positives.

And the other benefits to explosive concentrics that we already discussed.

 

[casualbb]

Bro i know your a mod but i would like for you to debate Chris Aceto (works with Cutler) and others about fiber recruitment..your spreading half truths!!!!!!

Hey, please don't ever thing that because I'm a mod you're not allowed to challenge what I say.

Most of what I say I can probably back up with scientific studies or trustworthy articles, but sometimes I may not find anything. Either way, one of us learns something.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

If there is such a deal as fiber recruitment, HST will get to it anyway. 15 to 10 to 5 rep schemes for two week blocks each.

 

[JKurz1]

10 min warmup on threadmill

10 min ab work out

the rep tempo i did was 3 down 3 up, 0 rest at top and bottom. im totally not used to training like this, it was kind of rough

Squats x 2 - 195
SLDL x 1 - 130
Calf Raise x 2 - 135
Bench press x 2 - 175
incline press x 1 - 105
*real weary, 5 min break*
BB Rows x 2 - 105
Pull down x 1 - 105
Military x 2 - 85
DB Shrug x 2 - 75
over head ext x 2 - 55
bb curl x 2 - 45

my nervous system was so dead i was shaking everytime i tried to stablize my self to do an exercise.

i left with a real good pump my workout partner had just the same feeling as me.

if it was this rough the first day, i cant imagine the next work out

Well, I didn't want to post this, but I did this workout today (my gym was closed, f'd up my whole schedule...) and it put me down......very intense. My appetite is suffering big time from it.......props.

 

[TheOak84]

y didnt u wana post that?