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Fetal stem cells obsolete?

Becoming

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So apparently if you find the cause of a disease, it might make finding cures obsolete....

I never would have guessed.

Well at least we still have all those fetuses to experiment on if this falls through...



Dietary neurotoxin linked to Alzheimer's


Neurotoxins from blue-green algae present in certain foods or water can accumulate in proteins and might cause brain diseases like Alzheimer’s after many years, suggests a new study.

The latest research explains how a devastating neurodegenerative disease common on the remote Pacific island of Guam can still strike people down decades after they have left the island.

The disease, called amyotrophic lateral sclerosis/Parkinsonism dementia complex (ALS/PDC), has symptoms resembling those of both Parkinson’s and Alzheimer's disease. The brain damage it causes is similar to that found in Alzheimer’s patients.

The latest theory is that the islanders’ taste for flying foxes is to blame. A neurotoxin called BMAA found in the fruit of the cycads on which the flying foxes feed, is thought to become concentrated in the flying foxes' flesh. BMAA, in turn, is made by a blue-green alga, or cyanobacterium, that lives in the roots of the cycads (New Scientist print edition, 10 January).

But this theory does not explain everything. Many islanders who leave Guam develop ALS/PDC decades later. BMAA is a water-soluble chemical, which means the body should soon get rid of it. So how BMAA caused brain damage so long after exposure had puzzled scientists.

Now a team led by Paul Cox, director of the National Tropical Botanic Garden in Hawaii, has shown that that BMAA is sometimes incorporated into proteins in place of normal amino acids. BMAA’s structure was already known to resemble that of the amino acids that make up the proteins in our body.

Levels of this protein-bound form of BMAA in the cycad flour eaten by islanders, in the flesh of flying foxes and in the brains of ALS/PDC victims, are typically around a hundred times higher than that of the free form, the team found.

This BMAA would slowly be released as proteins are broken down, Cox suggests. So for years after eating contaminated food, people’s brains would be exposed to low levels of the neurotoxin. What is more, the abnormal proteins containing BMAA could also damage the brain in several ways, for instance by binding together to form the protein tangles characteristic of both ALS/PDC and Alzheimer’s.

The study also raises intriguing new questions. As controls, about 20 brain samples from Canada were also tested for BMAA alongside the eight samples from Guam. As expected, no BMAA was found in the brain of the 13 Canadians who had not died from neurological diseases. But protein-bound BMAA was found in the brains of eight Canadian victims of Alzheimer’s disease.

Cox stresses that the study does not prove that BMAA plays a role in Alzheimer's or other brain diseases. “The sample size that we have studied is too small," he says.

And it still has not been proven conclusively that BMAA is the cause of ALS/PDC on Guam, Cox adds. However, its presence in the brain could be a sign that people have been exposed to other, as-yet-unknown cyanobacterial toxins.

The idea is plausible, says cyanobacteria expert Hans Paerl of the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill, US. Cyanobacteria are common in freshwaters and seas worldwide, and thrive in polluted, nutrient-rich waters. “Their influence is expanding as we nutrify the environment,” he says.

For example, in China there is growing evidence that cyanobacterial contamination of drinking water is to blame for the high rates of liver cancer in some regions, says Paerl. “We are just starting to put the pieces of the puzzle together.”

Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0404926101)
 
The Nature Boy said:
This article is purely speculatory though.

so is taking fetal stem cells and turning them into fully functional nerve tissue... :)
 
Got it. Becoming anti-stem cell research.
 
WODIN said:
Got it. Becoming anti-stem cell research.

No - becoming is against bunk science that wastes money and creates big arguments for no good reason because they fail to address HUGE hurdles to their therapy platform that will be a problem even if they DO get it to work... Also becoming is against weak scientists all jumping into an area cause it is getting lots of dollars because it is the hot item, and NOT because they have any talent they can contribute...

Becoming is for good science that produces results and is based on more than speculation and hype.

(for me this is a good science/bad science question and not a ethical question)
 
Becoming said:
No - becoming is against bunk science that wastes money and creates big arguments for no good reason because they fail to address HUGE hurdles to their therapy platform that will be a problem even if they DO get it to work... Also becoming is against weak scientists all jumping into an area cause it is getting lots of dollars because it is the hot item, and NOT because they have any talent they can contribute...

Becoming is for good science that produces results and is based on more than speculation and hype.

(for me this is a good science/bad science question and not a ethical question)

BUT, a lot of scientific leads are based on speculation though, right? If nobody ever speculated then no discoveries would be made.

(not advocating farming fetuses or anything)
 
Woah.. there isn't hardly any funding for this because of moral objections....

I don't see the big pile of money for scientists to jump on...

I think there is legitimate research that needs to be done here... People may have moral objections, but that doesn't make the science not real...

There are always hurdles...


.
 
The Nature Boy said:
BUT, a lot of scientific leads are based on speculation though, right? If nobody ever speculated then no discoveries would be made.

(not advocating farming fetuses or anything)

Very true - the media machine and non-ethical science people have spun this as the end all be all tho...

There is no need to churn out millions of fetuses for this work which only about 10% of those working on it are probably experienced enough to work on... Also there are many hurdles even if they do manage to get stem cells to differentiate into nerve cells etc on a consistent basis...

I worked on non fetal stem cells in grad school and I can tell the the doc running the lab was a real moron and wasted 90% of the material I harvested for experiments (from bone marrow - which is a real pain in the ass btw)
 
The Ejaculator said:
Woah.. there isn't hardly any funding for this because of moral objections....

I don't see the big pile of money for scientists to jump on...

I think there is legitimate research that needs to be done here... People may have moral objections, but that doesn't make the science not real...

There are always hurdles...

There is less money now because of GWs actions, but it is still there... people have been fooled into thinking it is the end all be all, and a lot of money has gone into it... countries with standards less than ours are attracting scientists by offering materials and huge funding(I don't care about this tho - they can waste their money how ever they want)

say you do get them to differentiate into neural cells - what about the nerves that have degenerated where the person was paralyzed? or that have not been used because of a disease and now are less or non functional?

it is also funny that someone comes up with a stupendeous experiment which is never repeated (like the mice they broke the backs of, implant cells and it fixes it up)

what I am saying is they concentrate on this area which has many holes and problems... when someone comes up with something that may actually be of value that is less controversial it is relatively ignored....
 
Fetal stem cell research is already obselete. Adult stem cells work equally well.

Then why the big hub-bub about FSTR?

1) What Ron Reagan described in his speech wasn't fetal stem cell research, it's cloning by an obscured name.
2) Just like the Navy trying to reduce it's unecessarily large sub fleet after the Cold War, the medical research establishment has been moving along a path towards FSCR and want Federal research money.
3) Let me make that clearer - this isn't about a right to research, this is about the right to my tax dollars to spend on the cloning frankenstein experiments that I object to on libertarian/economic/moral/etc grounds.
 
Synpax said:
Fetal stem cell research is already obselete. Adult stem cells work equally well.

I think they do too, but people ignore that fact as well...

Also as far as the cloning goes - sure it will provide a lot bigger amount of material to work with, but cell lines are finite and not perpetual... eventually they burn themselves out... you need to be careful to preserve your samples and to generate up future generations from those lines efficently... you can't clone forever off of one sample... eventually you will need new materials...

(btw I did not bring this up at all for anything to do with ron reagan jr)
 
People are going to CHINA to get treatment for Neurological damage using Stems..
And it's working... sorta

CHINA.. China.. WTF... Land of People that live in same rooms as their livestock.


Call me a "Fence Sitter" on this issue..
 
Y_Lifter said:
People are going to CHINA to get treatment for Neurological damage using Stems..
And it's working... sorta
it woudl be interesting to see some results on that...

not that the people doing this in china are an example - but there are a lot of charlatains in this business...
 
Becoming,

I am not a scientist, and can only reference the relatively small amount I have read. But I also question how much of this debate is based on true science and promise, and how much is simply another means of justifying and mainstreaming the practice of abortion. It isnt a tactic unique to abortionists, the other side made a similar gesture with the dual death penalty laws for pregnant mothers.

I see a lot of it as a blatant appeal to self interest, since the vast majority of people, even those who would support abortion rights, don't believe in it for themselves or their own unborn children. Along the lines of "dead fetuses may help you personally live a longer and happier life." Much easier to sell than the other abortion arguments
 
JerseyArt said:
Becoming,

I am not a scientist, and can only reference the relatively small amount I have read. But I also question how much of this debate is based on true science and promise, and how much is simply another means of justifying and mainstreaming the practice of abortion. It isnt a tactic unique to abortionists, the other side made a similar gesture with the dual death penalty laws for pregnant mothers.

I see a lot of it as a blatant appeal to self interest, since the vast majority of people, even those who would support abortion rights, don't believe in it for themselves or their own unborn children. Along the lines of "dead fetuses may help you personally live a longer and happier life." Much easier to sell than the other abortion arguments


I fail to see anyone marketing abortions so that fetal stem cell research can continue....






































on another note, you are the poster child for abortion
 
Becoming said:
it woudl be interesting to see some results on that...

not that the people doing this in china are an example - but there are a lot of charlatains in this business...

CBS evening news I think.. Monday night. U.S. trained DR's going there to practice..
 
Y_Lifter said:
CBS evening news I think.. Monday night. U.S. trained DR's going there to practice..

US trained docs are going a lot of places to practice and research... just cause someone is a us trained doc does not mean they know jack...

the news is a huge perpetuator of myths - they are they guys who told us eggs were bad for our cholesterol, and perpetuate unsubstantiated lies on a daily basis...

it woudl be interesting to see what the guys in china have actually achieved and how it stands up to scientific scruitiny however...
 
those are more stem cell cloning activities - as synpax pointed out as well...

they use cells from the patient, not from fetuses...

I don't have a problem with that perse, but I don't think it should be totally unregulated either...

cause then you have people trying to clone people... (it says they are against reproductive cloning at that particular institution) and getting seriously fucked up humans developed which is wrong...

I don't see that there should be any ban on anything that particular lab is doing (mentioned at nature.com)
 
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