FDA investigator called me today...

[buckwheat1]

I received a phone call from a FDA investigator asking me about my seized GH shipments. I played dumb but he wants to meet with me. Actually wanted to drop by my house this evening but told him that I was getting ready to go out of town. So he rescheduled for Dec. 1st.

The GH was from ankio. My order was back in June or something. It got seized. After about a month, ankio emailed me saying that they saw that it got seized and would resend at no charge to me. They asked that I fax them a presciption to make it easier to go through customer. Told them that I did not have a prescription and that I was going to look into getting a prescription. I actually told them not to resend again until I called them. But when they got the actual seizure letter they decided to resend. Well that shipment got seized too. I never heard back from them again and never reported it to ankio. Since I was just ready to write it off as a loss. But those guys decided to resend me the package a third time. Well, guess what, seized again.

So now I have this guy calling me and probably wonders why I don't get the message. He asked me if I received the seizure letters. I told him that I have a ton of opened mail (actually I do) and have not seen any seizure letters.

I am going to deny everything but I can't see how I would be in much trouble. I don't think GH is scheduled. And the order was only for 120IU so it is not like I am dealing.

Already cleaned house as a precaution.


I did get some T3 seized from Mexico. I hope they don't bring that up. I stopped going international because of the seizures.

 

[40butpumpin]

why not get a script just to cover your ass and have something to stick in the FDA's face when you meet him. hell i'd pay the $100 for the script just to see the look on that guys face.

 

[F117A Active Stealth]

^^^ Isn't that technically a source post??

 

[buckwheat1]

Even if I had a prescription, the seizure letter indicated that there was other reasons why the seizure occurred. Someone posted a watch list from customs or the fda that had ankio on the list of banned products to look out for.

My original plan was to get a script (I am 40). And then use it to purchase cheap GH. But when I found out that the chinese GH was simply not allowed plus the fact that the doctors never seemed to email me back when I mentioned that I only wanted a script but was going to order the GH from another supplier, I gave up on the idea and was going to write it off as a loss.

Unfortunetely ankio customer services is very good. Hell it was only a couple of dollars an IU. How they can resend 3 times without charge is beyond me.

 

[DaddyX]

^^^ Isn't that technically a source post??

i would say it is

 

[lwgy]

From Legal Muscle:

"HGH is available by prescription only; it is not a controlled substance under federal law. However, federal law prohibits the distribution or possession with the intent to distribute human growth hormone for use in humans other than for the treatment of a disease or other recognized medical conditions under 21 USC section 333(e). Violations may be punishable by imprisonment of up to 5 years. Some states have classified HGH as a controlled substance.

 

[AustinTX]

I wouldn't let him meet me at my house.

You should post this on the law board....

 

[buckwheat1]

From Legal Muscle:

"HGH is available by prescription only; it is not a controlled substance under federal law. However, federal law prohibits the distribution or possession with the intent to distribute human growth hormone for use in humans other than for the treatment of a disease or other recognized medical conditions under 21 USC section 333(e). Violations may be punishable by imprisonment of up to 5 years. Some states have classified HGH as a controlled substance.

No intent to distribute and I don't think the min. order of 120Iu would be considered enough for them to think that. But who knows.

I live in california. Does it say if GH is controlled here.

 

[buckwheat1]

I wouldn't let him meet me at my house.

You should post this on the law board....

Good idea. He did ask questions about my work and what hours I work. I could try to see if he can meet while I am at work but there is nothing at my house that is a problem.

 

[40butpumpin]

Even if I had a prescription, the seizure letter indicated that there was other reasons why the seizure occurred.

then they shouldn't have held it up as far as i know because with a script it's 100% legal, right? with a script i just don't see how they have a leg to stand on.

 

[Vulgar_Display_Of_Power]

Good idea. He did ask questions about my work and what hours I work. I could try to see if he can meet while I am at work but there is nothing at my house that is a problem.

Do you think the stigma of having an FDA agent showing up at your work would be real smart?

I dont think that would go over real big at my work.

 

[buckwheat1]

then they shouldn't have held it up as far as i know because with a script it's 100% legal, right? with a script i just don't see how they have a leg to stand on.

First I don't have a prescription. But I was saying that even if I did, they would have still seized the chinese GH because ankio is on banned list. The seizure letter said something about the product not meeting General manufacturing practices.

If I had a script and order Sazien or humatrope from Europe, then I would be OK. But ankio has been marked as non-importable.

 

[buckwheat1]

Do you think the stigma of having an FDA agent showing up at your work would be real smart?

I dont think that would go over real big at my work.

I really meant having him meet during work hours if possible but not at work and not at my house. But unless the guy comes in a swat uniform or they or going to try to arrest me , then having him come to my work is no big deal. And again, there is nothing at my house so technically there is no reason he can't come there.

 

[40butpumpin]

First I don't have a prescription. But I was saying that even if I did, they would have still seized the chinese GH because ankio is on banned list. The seizure letter said something about the product not meeting General manufacturing practices.

If I had a script and order Sazien or humatrope from Europe, then I would be OK. But ankio has been marked as non-importable.

yeah, i got that you don't have one, that's why i recommended you get one, right???

if you get one, can't you just say that you didn't know they were on their banned list?

 

[Parabellum]

Don't let him into your house and not at your job, do you want to lose it?

If you must meet, meet at his office. Get a script and play dumb about aniko being non-importable. You got a script and wanted to save some $$$. But the "laws" mentality is that ignorance is not an excuse.

You should use a new address for all your future orders.

 

[buckwheat1]

yeah, i got that you don't have one, that's why i recommended you get one, right???

if you get one, can't you just say that you didn't know they were on their banned list?

Sorry I lost track of who posted what.


The truth is I did not think that ordering GH was really too much of an issue law-wise. Sure I knew that customs could seize my shipment and if so, I would be out the product.

Also, I have already denied knowing anything about it. If I change my story now it might look suspicous.

I think the only reason why they are calling me is because there has been 3 shipments that they have seized. And since the send seizure letters, at some point they got to think that they have educated you to the fact that this cannot be done.


After the first seizure letter, I did not want to risk having a resend seized again. So if you are ordering from ankio this is sometime to be concerned about. Because they will reship, even if you do not request them to. On the first resend the emailed letting me know they resent it after the fact. The second resend , I did not even received any notice that it was coming.

When I meet with the guy I will bring about hundred opened letters to show the guy that I don't open most of my mail because I pay all of my bills online or through automatic deduction.

 

[buckwheat1]

Don't let him into your house and not at your job, do you want to lose it?

If you must meet, meet at his office. Get a script and play dumb about aniko being non-importable. You got a script and wanted to save some $$$. But the "laws" mentality is that ignorance is not an excuse.

You should use a new address for all your future orders.

I will look into the script thing. But if they find out that the prescription is new , then it would not apply back when I orginally ordered. I have a week to figure out what I want to do.

Trust me. Because of the seizures I will not order anything international.

 

[lwgy]

sounds like your house has been flagged for special attention. i'll check on whether HGH is controlled in cali, but im pretty sure it is not.

 

[gymmeister]

What's he going to do? Get a script with today's or tomorrow's date on it (what M.D. is going to write a pre-dated script???) and then claim that the script is/was good for something he ordered several months ago? Are you people serious???

The script issue is really a "non-issue". It's too late to go that route. If he has nothing to hide, then he "could" claim ignorance. He could possibly say that he thoght that what he orded was the same type HGH shit one would get at GNC only a bit stronger and that he thought it was legal too.

Or he "could" deny that he ever ordered the HGH and claim that someone unknown to him must have ordered the HGH in his name. Plausible deniability. That's too risky though because who knows who much evidenve they already do or don't have?

Get a script. Jeez! A lot of good that will do after the fact...

 

[ironmaster]

An Rx won't help you. Chinese GH is being seized under the "non-approved foreign drug" section of the FDA regs. The company you ordered from has not sought FDA approval for importation for human usage. So even a script from an American doctor will not fly. Even if it would, as you mentioned, it would be ex post facto.
It's a good thing that this is the FDA and not the DEA contacting you. Looks like a non-criminal inquiry.
They may be checking you out to make sure you are not a legitimate research scientist.......the only way this would be released to you.......and you need damn good credentials for this.
Check with Rick Collins, but this is probably a "play dumb, say nothing, walk away" scenario.

The chinese market is basically dead for us right now, and it's really a shame. Too much open posting has killed yet another resource for us.

 

[The Terminator]

i would say it is

LOL, I guess it could be looked at as one...though apparently not a source for GH that anyone woud want to use, with all their customes troubles...

 

[Stillgoing]

An Rx won't help you. Chinese GH is being seized under the "non-approved foreign drug" section of the FDA regs. The company you ordered from has not sought FDA approval for importation for human usage. So even a script from an American doctor will not fly. Even if it would, as you mentioned, it would be ex post facto.
It's a good thing that this is the FDA and not the DEA contacting you. Looks like a non-criminal inquiry.
They may be checking you out to make sure you are not a legitimate research scientist.......the only way this would be released to you.......and you need damn good credentials for this.
Check with Rick Collins, but this is probably a "play dumb, say nothing, walk away" scenario.

The chinese market is basically dead for us right now, and it's really a shame. Too much open posting has killed yet another resource for us.

Excellent post. That clears some things up for me. Thanks..

 

[AAP]

GH is restricted to a script in all states. Foreign GH is restricted and banned all together.

I would play stupid. Act like you didn't know about the FDA ban on Chinese growth and act like it was pro-hormones all together.

 

[40butpumpin]

What's he going to do? Get a script with today's or tomorrow's date on it (what M.D. is going to write a pre-dated script???) and then claim that the script is/was good for something he ordered several months ago? Are you people serious???

The script issue is really a "non-issue". It's too late to go that route. If he has nothing to hide, then he "could" claim ignorance. He could possibly say that he thoght that what he orded was the same type HGH shit one would get at GNC only a bit stronger and that he thought it was legal too.

Or he "could" deny that he ever ordered the HGH and claim that someone unknown to him must have ordered the HGH in his name. Plausible deniability. That's too risky though because who knows who much evidenve they already do or don't have?

Get a script. Jeez! A lot of good that will do after the fact...

your point is well taken bro. my reasoning was only that with a script, even if it was dated more recently, would show that he had a legal right to purchase and possess growth hormone, which i thought would be better than nothing.

 

[DrJMW]

From what I have read at the FDA website this week, aftr an extensive search, is that GenSci and all the other Chinese manufacturers are also on the "banned list."

 

[Vectork39]

wait, you have ordered several times from the company, and have had 3 seizures to the same address???? am i reading it incorrectly or does it sound like hes playing with fire

 

[DrJMW]

I think the point of the situation is that the recipient isn't getting the message from the FDA/US customs. The manufacturer wants to keep up their end of the bargain. I am not sure that they realize that their products are no longer welcome here. After three seizures and letters sent, they must be getting concerned about the repeat behavior. I think that the authorities just want to have the shipments topped and for the recipient to realize that Anke's products are no longer welcome in the USA.

Drug reimportation is major topic for our government these days. They are worried about safety and economics. The public is worried and economics and safety.

 

[liftsiron]

Refuse to speak to him without a lawyer present. Believe me he is not out to do you any favors. If he persists retain a lawyer, and have him speak to your attorney and not you. Doing this could save you considerable grief in the long run. What ever deny any knowledge of any over seas shipment.

 

[youbastig]

insane. Looks like the winter busts are on the way.

 

[buckwheat1]

Refuse to speak to him without a lawyer present. Believe me he is not out to do you any favors. If he persists retain a lawyer, and have him speak to your attorney and not you. Doing this could save you considerable grief in the long run. What ever deny any knowledge of any over seas shipment.

Just got back from my trip. I emailed Rick and he suggested that I have a local attorney contact them and let them know that I have nothing to say to them.

Just for the record , I did not keep ordering the GH. Ankio kept resending. In fact, I never asked them to resend. I specifically told them to wait until I contacted them and I was going to see about a script. But when I found out that a script would not take care of the issue, I was going to take it as a loss. But Anke Bio resent without me requesting. The first time they emailed me . The last time I received nothing and did not even know they did it. So keep this in mind if you order from them and it gets seized.

By the way, all of the seizures are throught the customs in San Francisco.

Thanks for all of the replies. I wil be getting an attorney on Monday and let him call this guy . I will update when I get more info.

 

[bigp3]

why do people even consider talking to these guys,,, if he wants to talk, tell him to talk with you lawyer

 

[ironmaster]

Just compare this post to the other one on this page......"possible arrest"............about dealing with LE.
These should be attached together as "how to do it" and "how not to do it." This is the right way.

 

[AAP]

Bro, get a lawyer. Right now, you have three things in your favor...

You never received the package.

It was sent to someone else who opened it.

You don't really 'know' anything about the package.

 

[CQB]

Dude,

Just have him talk with your lawyer, better yet throw him off by setting up the meeting in a strip bar. If the meeting goes badly your lawyer can say he was distracted and does not remember a thing.

CQB

OUT

 

[PBR]

I think the point of the situation is that the recipient isn't getting the message from the FDA/US customs. The manufacturer wants to keep up their end of the bargain. I am not sure that they realize that their products are no longer welcome here. After three seizures and letters sent, they must be getting concerned about the repeat behavior. I think that the authorities just want to have the shipments topped and for the recipient to realize that Anke's products are no longer welcome in the USA.

Drug reimportation is major topic for our government these days. They are worried about safety and economics. The public is worried and economics and safety.

NO SHIT BRO....the FUCK they are worried!!! you want to know what this is about???? the AMA getting $20.00 an iu for GH...the US has decided that they are loosing money on foreign pharmasuticals- they dont want you going outside the country to get your medicine- regardless of what kind it is or what it is for....

 

[Koivu_11]

hey that's a dumb post.... if the fds investigator reads this then you're in seriously trouble. You're nuts to post this.

 

[ceo]

where is your pc that you use to post here? if its in your home then your home isnt "clean"

 

[buckwheat1]

where is your pc that you use to post here? if its in your home then your home isnt "clean"

I use various programs to cleanup my PC on a regular basis. This includes disk and memory.

I use encrypted email. I have a laptop with a spare system disk. I can switch out disks whenever I need to in a matter of minutes.

 

[gymmeister]

I think the point of the situation is that the recipient isn't getting the message from the FDA/US customs. The manufacturer wants to keep up their end of the bargain. I am not sure that they realize that their products are no longer welcome here. After three seizures and letters sent, they must be getting concerned about the repeat behavior. I think that the authorities just want to have the shipments topped and for the recipient to realize that Anke's products are no longer welcome in the USA.

Drug reimportation is major topic for our government these days. They are worried about safety and economics. The public is worried and economics and safety.

Another excellent post by DrJMW. Good insight and reasoning DrJMW.

 

[mickeys]

tell him you're a busy guy and dont have time for shit like this.. and that you didn't order anything and you have no clue what he's talking about and to talk over the phone instead of your house.

or you could try to get a script like some one mentioned.. personally i'd just go the deny-everything-route. without evidence they can't do much.. so don't dig yourself in a hole tell him to leave you alone and you dont wanna meet. that is the only way they will get anything on you, by you slipping up and answering one of their questions the wrong way.

 

[Koivu_11]

I use various programs to cleanup my PC on a regular basis. This includes disk and memory.

I use encrypted email. I have a laptop with a spare system disk. I can switch out disks whenever I need to in a matter of minutes.

Then it's no more a secret. They could easely read all the post. You're really stupid, I'm sorry for you.

 

[buckwheat1]

Then it's no more a secret. They could easely read all the post. You're really stupid, I'm sorry for you.

I appreciate your concern. First they would have to make the connection between my screen name and the actual person.

Regardless of how close this story sounds to an actual case, they would have to make the connection in court.

You also have to take into consideration the actual "crime". I ordered one min. order of GH. GH is not a scheduled drug. I did not ignore the FDA seizures letters. Ankio resent them without my permission. So, if found guilty, what do you possible think would be the punishment. Worse case would be a fine.

I am pretty conservative. When I go about making the decisions I make, I believe I have a feeling of what the consequences and the risk will be. And I feel comfortable with the consequences that may happen. I will do my best to avoid them, but in the end of the day, I will deal with whatever happens.

 

[Toozee]

"play dumb, say nothing, walk away" scenario.
----------------------


This has my vote.

 

[buckwheat1]

"play dumb, say nothing, walk away" scenario.
----------------------


This has my vote.

Trust me . This one has my vote also.

 

[granby140]

if he does come to meet you and he has the package beat his ass and use the gh before he regains consciousness

 

[DJ_UFO]

if you talk with him again by phone ask his name and the location of his office...then pay somebody to kill him. The body must be mutilated and disolved in acid.

(j/k)

 

[buckwheat1]

if you talk with him again by phone ask his name and the location of his office...then pay somebody to kill him. The body must be mutilated and disolved in acid.

(j/k)

Actually, I already have this information (name, location). So I guess on to step three

 

[George Spellwin]

Refuse to speak to him without a lawyer present. Believe me he is not out to do you any favors. If he persists retain a lawyer, and have him speak to your attorney and not you. Doing this could save you considerable grief in the long run. What ever deny any knowledge of any over seas shipment.

This is good advice. Do not speak to him at all. Get a criminal lawyer ASAP.

Refer him to your lawyer for all of his questions. The grand or two you may spend is nothing compared to what you could spend in the future. Get a copy of Rick's book and read it. I agree with the person who said he is not looking to do you any favors.

www.elitefitness.com/go/rick

 

[Koivu_11]

I appreciate your concern. First they would have to make the connection between my screen name and the actual person.

Regardless of how close this story sounds to an actual case, they would have to make the connection in court.

You also have to take into consideration the actual "crime". I ordered one min. order of GH. GH is not a scheduled drug. I did not ignore the FDA seizures letters. Ankio resent them without my permission. So, if found guilty, what do you possible think would be the punishment. Worse case would be a fine.

I am pretty conservative. When I go about making the decisions I make, I believe I have a feeling of what the consequences and the risk will be. And I feel comfortable with the consequences that may happen. I will do my best to avoid them, but in the end of the day, I will deal with whatever happens.

Oh well I'm sorry, I almost forgot the HGH status in the states. Here it's the same as AAS, so I thought it was the same. I'd still don't give out too much info about how you keep things private. They could easely retrace your IP and read everything you posted. Well, like you said for HGH it's unlikely. sorry lol

 

[Hollow Man]

Good luck bro, yikes.

 

[Seth28]

if he does come to meet you and he has the package beat his ass and use the gh before he regains consciousness

LMAO!!!

 

[buckwheat1]

I had sent Ankio an email explaining to them the problem and requesting that they do not resend anymore.

They replied that they had sent three times and they all got seized (of course I know this).

He then mentions that he was discussing the problem with his "leader" and was trying to get an approval to send a 4th time. They wanted an alternative address to send to.

Told them, keep the money. I willing to take this as a loss. Do not resend. Hopefully they don't try this again.


I just wanted to make sure that everyone know that if you order from Ankio and it gets seized, you better explain to them if them not to resend if this is what you wish. And you will need to make it clear to them. Otherwise you may have someone calling your house like I did wondering why you don't get the message.