Ever wondered how long you grow?

[casualbb]

MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE. The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise.
Can J Appl Physiol. 1995 Dec;20(4):480-6.

Phillips, S. M., K. D. Tipton, A. Aarsland, S. E. Wolf, and R. R. Wolfe. Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans. Am. J. Physiol. 273 (Endocrinol. Metab. 36): E99-E107, 1997

These are just a couple. Based on such research as this, KD Tipton, one of the leading muscle hypertrophy researchers (he's been personally involved in a good many studies), wrote this as part of a review:

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2001 Mar;11(1):109-32.

Exercise has a profound effect on muscle growth, which can occur only if muscle protein synthesis exceeds muscle protein breakdown; there must be a positive muscle protein balance. Resistance exercise improves muscle protein balance, but, in the absence of food intake, the balance remains negative (i.e., catabolic). The response of muscle protein metabolism to a resistance exercise bout lasts for 24-48 hours; thus, the interaction between protein metabolism and any meals consumed in this period will determine the impact of the diet on muscle hypertrophy.

 

[revexrevex]

Title: The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise.
Author(s): MacDougall JD; Gibala MJ; Tarnopolsky MA; MacDonald JR; Interisano SA; Yarasheski KE

Abstract: It has been shown that muscle protein synthetic rate (MPS) is elevated in humans by 50% at 4 hrs following a bout of heavy resistance training, and by 109% at 24 hrs following training. This study further examined the time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis by examining its rate at 36 hrs following a training session. Six healthy young men performed 12 sets of 6- to 12-RM elbow flexion exercises with one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS was calculated from the in vivo rate of incorporation of L-[1,2-13C2] leucine into biceps brachii of both arms using the primed constant infusion technique over 11 hrs. At an average time of 36 hrs postexercise, MPS in the exercised arm had returned to within 14% of the control arm value, the difference being nonsignificant. It is concluded that following a bout of heavy resistance training, MPS increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline.

 

[spatts]

It's not saying that how long you experience muscle protein IS how long you grow...it's saying there's a correlation.

 

[casualbb]

I thought muscle growth was defined as net protein into the muscle, or greater synthesis than degradation.

 

[toilet hamster]

Ive heard this before. I wonder how this correlates to muscle soreness(lasting several days) as well...

 

[MrTrap]

I'll believe it if you are training one bicep and that's it. But I'd need somebody to explain this to me before I'd believe it for real training. I once had a shoulder injury that kep me from doing any upper body stuff, but I could squat high bar, so I'd go to the gym and squat, ride the bike. My weight kept going up day after day, I'd weigh more when squat day came around than I did just two days after. This went on for two months. Started at 11% fat, ended at the same. I was surprised how much I gained just squatting. If I wasn't gaining fat, and if that research says I was only gaining muscle the 48 hours, what was I gaining after that, until the next squat day?

Traps

 

[Debaser]

That's why a lot of these studies piss me off. Why on earth did they do a one arm isolated bicep movement to test this out? I want to see it done by an experienced man, deadlifting or squatting 700 lbs.

It seems common sense to me that the recouperation process for said activies would be longer.

 

[spatts]

I still think you're reading it wrong.

 

[casualbb]

Spatts - Then help me out, explain it. What do you think it means?

Debaser -- muscle is muscle. Squatting a huge weight (or any compound movement) just involves a lot more of it in a more complex prime mover-synergist-stabilizer relationship.

They picked one bicep because they didn't want individual body mechanics to limit the amount of damage the target muscle would receive. They could control to some degree for differences between individuals and how a movement is performed. It's easier to botch a squat than an isolated curl.

 

[Becoming]

A-I think casual's says that exercise causes a muscle to grow if you eat enough to maintain a positive nitrogen balance so that you keep the muscle's synthetic activity above the catabolic (exercise will cause one or the other or both depending on the nitrogen balance)

B-And revexrevex's says that synthetic activity is at 50% higher 4 hours after a workout and 108% higher 24 hours later and negligible increase at 36 hours

I think together they say to eat as much as you can during the 0-36 hour window because (B) that is when there is the most potential for synthetic activity and (A) if you don't maintain a positive nitrogen balance you will not be able to maintain synthetic activity and otherwise exercises effects will be catabolic within that window of time....

Sound Good? Nothing new I don't think.... except maybe I thought the growth was higher sooner (4hrs after workout) rather than later (24 hours), that is a suprise

 

[Debaser]

It didn't say at what intensity they were lifting, or their experience or anything of the sort.

If I bend over to pick up a broomstick, how long do you think it will take to recover vs. picking up a 600 lb loaded bar?

 

[casualbb]

What do you mean by intensity? Whether or not they're going to failure? I'd hope by now that's been established as irrelevant.

The weight was sufficient that they sustained damage that would necessitate repair and growth. It would have to be a weight they were unaccustomed to.

Also you gotta remember, there are two mechanisms of recovery: 1) repair of damage (this causes growth) 2) Neural recovery from a training bout. These occur independently of one another.

The general concept of "the more weight you lift the more recovery time is needed," is wrong. It's a leftover from Jones-Mentzer non-science. How much recovery time you need is related to how much volume you did and how much was taken to failure.

So back to your example, if our theoretical dude can deadlift 800 for a 1RM, 600 isn't gonna put a dent in him. Recovery time? A few minutes. If 600 is his 1RM? Probably days. It's more about the weight relative to your ability and how much effort you exerted in lifting it. Closer to failure = more recovery time needed.

 

[spatts]

What I meant was that "The response of muscle protein metabolism to a resistance exercise bout lasts for 24-48 hours" doesn't mean growth only occurs for 24-48 hours. It's saying you have that window of time to ensure a positive balance. As long as you have a positive balance, you can grow....NOT as long as you are metabolising muscle protein, you can grow. When you're done "processing it" you may still have a net positive balance. Am I making sense?

 

[spatts]

Also, please factor in neural recovery which can take up to 5x as long as muscle recovery. When you are lifting 600 pounds, per your example, you are not only going to require more muscle recovery, but more neural recovery as well. Your hormonal system...multiple systems...have to recover. This is just a small part of the puzzle.

 

[Debaser]

The general concept of "the more weight you lift the more recovery time is needed," is wrong. It's a leftover from Jones-Mentzer non-science. How much recovery time you need is related to how much volume you did and how much was taken to failure.

Not entirely. Let me use another example.

Powerlifter A can squat 1000 lbs. Testosterone magazine editor TC Luoma can squat 100 lbs. Do you honestly think that the powerlifter doesn't have to psych himself up to squat 800 lbs, that it would be just as easy as TC squatting 80 lbs?

Once you get into heavier poundages, even lower %maxes aren't always easy poundages for you, they require a lot of focus.

 

[louden_swain]

Casual and Rev. . .

Good cites!!!!

 

[spatts]

Yeah, their great cites, and would be even better if we could talk about what they say.