EQ front load.

[Zyglamail]

This is just an informational post but I am tossing around how I would like to approach my next cycle which will be fina/eq and winny. I was debating on weather or not to do 10 weeks eq with an even dose or 8 weeks and front load the first two. So, I decided to run some numbers and here is a graph for your entertainment

Anyways, the frontload is taking 200mg eq on monday, tues, wed, thurs, fri and sat for the first 2 weeks. Then switching to 200mg eq on just mon/wed/fri for another 6 weeks.

The second line displays just a straight out 200mg mon/wed/fri for 10 weeks straight.

I used a 6 day half life for the EQ which is open to debate but after looking at the graph I have decided to do the frontload method. I will ad winny 50mg/ed and fina 75mg/ed starting the 3rd week and continueing it for 8 which should take me two weeks past last EQ inj.

 

[RoNiN]

I'm an advocate of front loading any long lasting esters like sustenon , deca, and eq. To get the most out of it you might as well load up on the first couple of weeks to raise the levels quickly to where you want them and then maintain the levels by lowering the dosage on subsequent weeks so that all of the remainder that is carried over can make up for the smaller amounts you are adding.

Winstrol , A50 , and prop are short acting and there is no real point to front loading , just take the amount you want in your system from the start and maintain it.

 

[hockey1]

EQ PAST THE FINA

Run the eq past the other drugs it is great for helping you maintain the size you earned,you might even go 4weeks of EQ@150 WEEKLY,PRIMO@300 WEEKLY,after your last shot of gear.

 

[WannaImpress]

Zyglamail

Very informative post bro. In my upcoming cycle I was debating whether to run the EQ at 600mgs for 13 weeks straight or front load like in your example. Bump for more replies.

Zyglamail no test?

 

[Zyglamail]

Run the eq past the other drugs it is great for helping you maintain the size you earned,you might even go 4weeks of EQ@150 WEEKLY,PRIMO@300 WEEKLY,after your last shot of gear.

I had thought about that option as well, but as the eq trickles out of my system my natural test will be shut down quite hard due to the fina. Because of that I am opting to try another approach. My theory is that I will be ready for clomid 17 days after the last EQ shot. On 14 of thse days I will be taking fina and clomid should follow the fina by 2-3 days which puts me right at 17 days. My test production will be gone so I believe I can best maintain my gains by getting by getting on the clomid asap.

Zyglamail no test?

This is my first run with EQ and I still have a lot of cutting to do so I want to avoid the test bloat and be able to tell just how well I like the eq. If I was bluking I would add a boat load of test, but since I am not, I will prolly forgoe test this run. Fina increases my labido, but just in case I will likely have some test prop on hand so I can take 200mg/week or so if needed.

 

[Andy13]

Zyg-- That's a nice graph.. It shows that with a straight xmg/week cycle with no load, by the time you get up to theraputic levels, you are alomost ready to come off.

Actually, I believe eq has a longer half life.. Maybe up to 10 days. If your graphs reflected this, it would be even longer before you saw results on a straight cycle with no load!

The only adjustments I would make would be taking the load in the first week.. If it were me, I'd do it on the first day then EOD injections after that.

Andy

 

[Zyglamail]

Andy, what did you mean take the front load in the first week? my cycle plans were for 600mg/week and I doubled up on the first two weeks(ie 1200mg week). Did you mean 1800mg first week?....if so eek, that seems like a lot .

As for EQ half life, I was finding all sorts of conflicting numbers. If anyone has lists of half lifes, please e-mail them to me. I will be including them in an upcomming project.

 

[Big Brother Val]

So Zyg... here's my question on the front load.

If I was to cycle will be at 1200 mgs a week, for 12 weeks, wouldn't the EQ hit my system just as fast as it is yours with a front load of 1200? Then it would get even better as I went through the 12 weeks, right?

So would it really be of any benefit to shoot up 2400 mgs of EQ in one week?

Look at your levels with 1200 up front, with 600 a week following. Mine would probably rock with 1200 up front, then followed up by 11 more weeks at 1200.

You think there would be any extra benefit to hit a higher dosage the first week anyway?

 

[Zyglamail]

Well, with 1200 a week, your peak dosage is going to be higher than with my 600 per week. Basically put your graph with 1200mg would look identiacal to mine but the scale on the left(mg's) would go higher. Front loading will still get the product into your system faster. However, there does come a point when you can take too much to fast and end up feeling like sheet, just ask Iron Game

The higher dose on the front end will make sure you get to beak blood concentrations faster. If you notice the frontload bar gets up faster and stay fairly level. while the non-frontload just keep crawling up. So, even though you would be at 1200, the benefit of the frontload would still be there.

 

[Big Brother Val]

I see what you're saying. Just not sure when to draw the line. I love EQ, but good hell... 2400 mgs, which is 12 cc's of Ttokkyo EQ, in one week seems a little "iffy" to me.

I remember what IG said about feeling like absolute shit after his front load. And for some strange reason I'd like to avoid that.

Thanks for the info. Just plannin' out the cycle.

 

[stryder]

Maybe this is just me but I tried to front load eq ( not even all that much, 100 mg per day) and I got very painful gyno, although it pretty much receeded after I tappered off. I have tried frontloading with deca and prop before: no gyno then. Then I tryed it with Dynkal ultra 100 and all of a sudden gyno. I thought maybe I had picked up a counterfiet filled with test so I switch to the same dose of Forte Dodge eq and although it got a little less painful it definately didn't go away. Go figure.

 

[Zyglamail]

Maybe this is just me but I tried to front load eq ( not even all that much, 100 mg per day) and I got very painful gyno,

That is strange, EQ is really mild from what I hear.

 

[Big Brother Val]

I also get gyno from EQ. That's why I ALWAYS take clomid eod throughout the cycle. When I hit around 700 mgs a week and up... I need the clomid.

EQ is mild... but I'm so damn gyno prone, that if I hole a bottle of test in my hand for 3 minutes, my nips get sensitive.

 

[Zyglamail]

EQ is mild... but I'm so damn gyno prone, that if I hole a bottle of test in my hand for 3 minutes, my nips get sensitive.

hehe, that sucks bro.

 

[stryder]

Thanks Big Bro, I thought I was the only one. I know clomid is good for HTPA suppression but I've heard it's too weak for stopping gyno. Have you found it effective for gyno in some situations? If so, that would rule out eq causing gyno via progesterone conversion the way deca does, since clomid is only relevant to estogen as far as I know.

 

[Andy13]

Maybe this is just me but I tried to front load eq ( not even all that much, 100 mg per day) and I got very painful gyno, although it pretty much receeded after I tappered off. I have tried frontloading with deca and prop before: no gyno then. Then I tryed it with Dynkal ultra 100 and all of a sudden gyno. I thought maybe I had picked up a counterfiet filled with test so I switch to the same dose of Forte Dodge eq and although it got a little less painful it definately didn't go away. Go figure.

With total respect to IG, I'm not so sure it was the actual AAS that caused his sickness. There are guys who inject 1200mg+ of eq on a weekly basis without much problem. I'm sure the sickness was due to something other than the AAS in his eq.. Perhaps the BA..

As for gyno from the front end load-- Have you ever used dbol before? Taking dbol at 50mg/day is likely to cause more gyno symptoms than front end loading eq.


When you inject an esterified steroid, particularly one with a longer ester such as deca or eq, you have to imagine that the steroid ester is some sort of internal IV bag.. and that it gradually releases active steroid into the system a little at a time.

Just because you inject 1200mg of eq doesnt mean you have that much floating around in your system, binding ARs... Most of it is stashed away, only a little leaks out of the oil per day.

Most will agree that the more even blood concentration, the better the results and fewer sides from AAS. It's very, very difficult to get the 'round-the-clock effect that you get from esterified steroids with orals.. So.... if you got gyno from loading 1200mg of eq, then I suggest you never try dbol.

Also, I think there is some marginal transcriptional control of metabolic enzymes associated with steroid metabolism. These enzymes may up-regulate as AAS use goes on. But this certainly doesn't mean that loading an injectable is any different than using an oral at full strength right off the bat

Andy

 

[Big Brother Val]

Zyg... yeah... it sucks beyond belief.

Good info, Andy.

And Stryder... if it wasn't for clomid, I'd have a big floppy pair of boobies by now.

Clomid keeps the gyno away in any cycle I do. I hit 1000 mgs a week of EQ, and 50 mgs a day of d-bol... and never got a bit of gyno.

Yet if I take 400 mgs of test cyp a week without clomid... my nips start to hurt like hell. Got the clomid back in stock, started it up... the pain went away.

I wouldn't cycle again without clomid. No matter what dosage I was taking.

 

[stryder]

Bro- Thanks for the advice. Never tried it with injection but I tried clomid (lots of it) when I started a dbol cycle. Didn't seem to matter how little dbol I did, it just caused more or less gyno with different dosages. I tried cutting back the dose to like 7mg a day using reforvit liquid 2.5mg three times a day: still gyno even when I did 200mgs of clomid per day. Maybe if I can get some arimidex I'll try again.

 

[Zyglamail]

stryder, damn bro, you must be real prone. Clomid/nolva will attach themselves to the estrogen receptor, essentially blocking it, but as the dose of AAS increase, you also need an increased amount to successfully block more receptors. Liquidez/arimidex actually prevent the aromitization from taking place all together, so my guess is it would work much better for you.

Out of curiosity, have you used deca or fina, and how where your gyno symptoms if you did and at what dose?

 

[stryder]

Strangely, I have used deca, and a lot of it and never got any gyno from it. In fact the cycle that I did immediately before frontloading eq was 100mg deca per day and 80 mg prop per day front loaded with no gyno, or very little. Also, this may seem strange, but on the days I did my eq and felt the gyno, I usually felt the ache in my nipples the same day. If I took a morning injection off the gyno didn't manifest itself that day nearly as badly. I know the eq ester isn't supposed to come off for at least a few days but that was the case for me: every single morning I would feel very little gyno, I would inject and by late afternoon my nipples were aching badly. No injection that morning and very reduced pain that wouldn't reappear until the evening after my next injection.

 

[Big Brother Val]

Very odd. You can take prop, no gyno. You take EQ, gyno the same day. I'm not a mega-brain here... but I think it's technically impossible for EQ to hit that fast. So something is really odd. Even being as gyno sensitive as I am, the EQ gyno symptoms don't start for almost 2 weeks.

I am also gyno sensitive to Deca, but thank God not to Fina.

If 200 mgs of clomid a day doesn't keep the gyno away... I don't think a force on God's green Earth can stop it.

Good hell... and I thought I was gyno prone.

 

[Andy13]

The ester on Eq DOES NOT take a week or two or whatever to "come off"

The ester just determines the RATE at which the ester diffuses from the oil to be de-esterified.

Again, ALL steroid injections peak after one day. That doesn't mean that you will be at max theraputic level for the cycle after the first shot, just that the max mg released/day from a single injection happens 24hrs after the first shot. Then, as each day goes on, a little less is released than the day before.

Andy

 

[dline]

What do you thinks the effects of front loading would be on a first time user using sustanon, winstrol, T-3, Hcg, and clomid?

 

[Zyglamail]

What do you thinks the effects of front loading would be on a first time user using sustanon, winstrol, T-3, Hcg, and clomid?

A 1st time user shouldnt frontload at all. You should 1st have some idea how you react to a specific compound before you try and frontload with it.

 

[LVTitan]

Zyg... yeah... it sucks beyond belief.

Good info, Andy.

And Stryder... if it wasn't for clomid, I'd have a big floppy pair of boobies by now.

Clomid keeps the gyno away in any cycle I do. I hit 1000 mgs a week of EQ, and 50 mgs a day of d-bol... and never got a bit of gyno.

Yet if I take 400 mgs of test cyp a week without clomid... my nips start to hurt like hell. Got the clomid back in stock, started it up... the pain went away.

I wouldn't cycle again without clomid. No matter what dosage I was taking.

just looking at clomid makes me depressed and i start crying like a little bitch...
good thing i never get gyno, but it's nolva only for me.

 

[athlete.03]

Zyg, thanks for the informational posts. It's posts like these that make Elite elite.

 

[Maxx Out]

With total respect to IG, I'm not so sure it was the actual AAS that caused his sickness. There are guys who inject 1200mg+ of eq on a weekly basis without much problem. I'm sure the sickness was due to something other than the AAS in his eq.. Perhaps the BA..

As for gyno from the front end load-- Have you ever used dbol before? Taking dbol at 50mg/day is likely to cause more gyno symptoms than front end loading eq.


When you inject an esterified steroid, particularly one with a longer ester such as deca or eq, you have to imagine that the steroid ester is some sort of internal IV bag.. and that it gradually releases active steroid into the system a little at a time.

Just because you inject 1200mg of eq doesnt mean you have that much floating around in your system, binding ARs... Most of it is stashed away, only a little leaks out of the oil per day.

Most will agree that the more even blood concentration, the better the results and fewer sides from AAS. It's very, very difficult to get the 'round-the-clock effect that you get from esterified steroids with orals.. So.... if you got gyno from loading 1200mg of eq, then I suggest you never try dbol.

Also, I think there is some marginal transcriptional control of metabolic enzymes associated with steroid metabolism. These enzymes may up-regulate as AAS use goes on. But this certainly doesn't mean that loading an injectable is any different than using an oral at full strength right off the bat

Andy

Nice post!

 

[DieselGunz]

all the oldies are the best threads