Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below JUICESEEKER
New member
There are talks of banning ephedra products in the US. Do you think ephedra is safe or not?
Ephedra Safe Or Not?
- Thread starter JUICESEEKER
- Start date
I hardly ever recommend ECA stacks, or anything with Ephedra in it. I prefer products with green tea extracts or caffeine. They aren't as effective as Ephedra based products, but they aren't as strong as diuretics either.
However, I hardly recommend thermogenics for the majority of the population at all. I think alot more can be gained through proper nutrition and cardio, and the results will be longer lasting and more healthy.
However, I hardly recommend thermogenics for the majority of the population at all. I think alot more can be gained through proper nutrition and cardio, and the results will be longer lasting and more healthy.
Delinquent
Well-known member
My mom actualy had the nerve to call me up last night to ask me if I used this stuff she saw on the news. Right then and there I knew there was gonna be a confrontation. She kept saying how these people died. I tried to explain to her that the guys shouldn't have been taking it due to ones history with heat stokes and high BP. She said she doesnt like me taking it. I told her she needs to stop drinking coffee then. She says nobody has died drinking coffee. I told her caffeine has caused a lot of problems for people. She would never accept the fact that I knew what I was taking and not to believe the media but she's too ignorant to think on her own. I've used it for 3-4 years with now probs. Maybe a little anxiety but my BP has been fine even while I smoked. I could go to the doc tweaked out of my mind and my BP was still 122/80. Some people drink coffee to get going, I pop a couple ephedrine tabs.
Optimus B said:
Optimus is right. Athletes dropping here and there and they say it's because of Ephedrine solely......BULL SHIT. It might have contributed ot it, but these guys are not doubt abusing it and not taking care of them selves. Gotta eat right and WATER.......FUCK man while spring training and if your on Excedidrine gotta drink like crazy and keep hydrated.
S
slobberknocker
Guest
I have been taking Ripped Fuel (which contains ephedra) 3-4 times per week for the last few years. I have no health problems to speak of.
I use it solely as a pre-workout stimulant.
I use it solely as a pre-workout stimulant.
C
Citruscide
Guest
Questions like these... lol
It is safe. As long as you aren't over weight, have a heart condition and practice football drills for 6 hours in 100 degree, sun out and 90% humidity.
It is something that can be taken... and taken effectively... but like anything, if misused... it can be harmful. Many kids have died from chugging a whole bottle of Nyquil... but I haven't seen that taken off the market yet.
C-ditty
It is safe. As long as you aren't over weight, have a heart condition and practice football drills for 6 hours in 100 degree, sun out and 90% humidity.
It is something that can be taken... and taken effectively... but like anything, if misused... it can be harmful. Many kids have died from chugging a whole bottle of Nyquil... but I haven't seen that taken off the market yet.
C-ditty
TheDarkSideNinja
New member
Hmmm....
I.M.O i would stay away from these supplements!!! The reason they are banned is because they are not safe plain and simple. As with A.S. which also has potential dangers equal or more then those banned!!! I am only for A.S. usage when it is taken to hit a goal which can not be reached without and if used the proper way. Just taking it all the time is plain and simple ignorant I.M.O Also might i add that we get a pretty good amount of caffiene in our diets, well most americans, so taking more really won't do to much!!! I am currently in a nutrition class and i am doing research on Ephedra and have gone over caffiene already so i'm not just talkin out my @$$. Well hopes this helps a lil. Peace ~JT~
I.M.O i would stay away from these supplements!!! The reason they are banned is because they are not safe plain and simple. As with A.S. which also has potential dangers equal or more then those banned!!! I am only for A.S. usage when it is taken to hit a goal which can not be reached without and if used the proper way. Just taking it all the time is plain and simple ignorant I.M.O Also might i add that we get a pretty good amount of caffiene in our diets, well most americans, so taking more really won't do to much!!! I am currently in a nutrition class and i am doing research on Ephedra and have gone over caffiene already so i'm not just talkin out my @$$. Well hopes this helps a lil. Peace ~JT~
S
satchboogie
Guest
try pure EFEDRINE SULPHATE!
TheDarkSideNinja
New member
POANTREX
Hey POANTREX you say u haven't had any problems....well i hope u didn't and i'm also hopeful u won't have any in the future being your more educated about the substance then anybody else. I'm not saying everybody is going to have problems but when you weigh the positives and negatives as far as university and other research is considered you seem to be an ignoramus if you even know what one is!!!! Now i don't know what your trying to say here but you act as if Ephedra is for everybody. Are you a registered dietician??? Yea that's what i thought! Go visit some of them who have the real research and ill be willing to bet 8 or 9 out of 10 will agree there are better ways to go about your goals then Ephedra!!! First off just like A.S. it is wrong in my open to talk out your @$$ like you and say something supplemented (a drug) to your diet is good for you. You have no idea how anybody's diet is fixed in the first place, you have no clue to their health historys, what lifestyle they live, etc. and you definitely sound like a total JACK@$$ to me. And yet your going to come out and say it's okay for people to mess with Ephedra. It's bad enough how some people recommend loads of A.S. to others. I mean for the time being you may not have any problems and who knows u may never have any problems BUT....and i mean BUT there are definitely consequences to any drug you place in your body. Like i said before for the people who constantly cycle especially in really high dasages and pill form i wish your liver, heart, etc. luck in the near future. See unlesss something is happening to you at the moment you don't even think anything is wrong that is the problem with our F***en generation!!! People live for the moment and can give a shit about the future. All i'm trying to get across here once again like always is do the damn research and don't listen to fools like POANTREX. Check into some real research and then make your decision. I'm done here!!! Peace ~JT~
Hey POANTREX you say u haven't had any problems....well i hope u didn't and i'm also hopeful u won't have any in the future being your more educated about the substance then anybody else. I'm not saying everybody is going to have problems but when you weigh the positives and negatives as far as university and other research is considered you seem to be an ignoramus if you even know what one is!!!! Now i don't know what your trying to say here but you act as if Ephedra is for everybody. Are you a registered dietician??? Yea that's what i thought! Go visit some of them who have the real research and ill be willing to bet 8 or 9 out of 10 will agree there are better ways to go about your goals then Ephedra!!! First off just like A.S. it is wrong in my open to talk out your @$$ like you and say something supplemented (a drug) to your diet is good for you. You have no idea how anybody's diet is fixed in the first place, you have no clue to their health historys, what lifestyle they live, etc. and you definitely sound like a total JACK@$$ to me. And yet your going to come out and say it's okay for people to mess with Ephedra. It's bad enough how some people recommend loads of A.S. to others. I mean for the time being you may not have any problems and who knows u may never have any problems BUT....and i mean BUT there are definitely consequences to any drug you place in your body. Like i said before for the people who constantly cycle especially in really high dasages and pill form i wish your liver, heart, etc. luck in the near future. See unlesss something is happening to you at the moment you don't even think anything is wrong that is the problem with our F***en generation!!! People live for the moment and can give a shit about the future. All i'm trying to get across here once again like always is do the damn research and don't listen to fools like POANTREX. Check into some real research and then make your decision. I'm done here!!! Peace ~JT~
hey dark ninja, you all realize this is FDA bullshit right. harvard and columbia university's came out with research like a year ago and the ephedra debate since then has gotten worse. the harvard/columbia studies showed ephedra to be the cheapest safest and most effective weightloss product available. compared to the FDA's meridia and xenical ephedrine is a miracle pill. so the FDA and company(most doctors, poloticians etc.) jumped on the band wagon to scare people off rom using it and eventually banning it, why? so they can claim control of it and make it a drug. next thing you know you will be going to the doctor to get your ephedra prescrption filled for 75 bucks a month when you could have gotten it for 30 at your local supplement shop. so this means more money for the FDA and company. then, so now because of the FDA and its bullshit propoganda everyone hears the word epherine and thinks they are going to have a fukin heart attack. (i am a user for 7 years, i cycle it and monitor my blood pressure regularly, also have a family history of high blood pressure-im doin fine) ephedrine is as natural as fukin fruit, brocculi and mary jane.(use all smart and in moderation and youll be alright! also I must say it but i would argue that more people have died from aspirin than ephedrine. also if your going to ban something, ban tobacco? not made to promote health is it? no but the FDA, poloticians, and docors all make money due to the effects of tobacco. same with dairy products, cancer and aids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there all out tp get us!!!!!!!!!
TheDarkSideNinja
New member
Little Peter...
I would like to see those studies you are talking about can you find them and post a link? I am interested in their logic and the way in which their research was conducted. Personally i have never experimented with Ephedra and yes there is a lot of media hype but i have yet to see a research study in favor of the drug!!! I'm not trying to shoot down any drug just watching out for people at E.F. cause they are cool as hell for the most part and wouldn't like to see anybody get hurt. After all we are all here for the same purpose right...which is to learn, share info, debate, etc.. Maybe Ephedra being banned was for money reasons but i havent seen info backing that up but i am skeptical of our govt. and never really understood y alcohol and tobacco is legal but you can't smoke a damn joint!!! See if u can get me those studies so i can review them!!! Thankx ~JT~
I would like to see those studies you are talking about can you find them and post a link? I am interested in their logic and the way in which their research was conducted. Personally i have never experimented with Ephedra and yes there is a lot of media hype but i have yet to see a research study in favor of the drug!!! I'm not trying to shoot down any drug just watching out for people at E.F. cause they are cool as hell for the most part and wouldn't like to see anybody get hurt. After all we are all here for the same purpose right...which is to learn, share info, debate, etc.. Maybe Ephedra being banned was for money reasons but i havent seen info backing that up but i am skeptical of our govt. and never really understood y alcohol and tobacco is legal but you can't smoke a damn joint!!! See if u can get me those studies so i can review them!!! Thankx ~JT~
ThunderGod66
New member
LITTLE PETER said:
EXACTLY!
I'm positive that more people have died from alcohol, tobacco, or fast food (heart problems etc.) than from ephedra. Why isn't McDonalds illegal? I'm sure some fat ass politician will die from eating shitty food before I die from ephedra.
I've been taking ephedra off and on for about 8 years...since I was 16 (which is supposedly too young for it) and it has never done anything but good for me.
People are blowing this shit up to be the death drug and it's not.
So... Ephadra MIGHT be dangerous to you if used improperly...so is alcohol...so is fast food...and about a million other things. Why not make everything illegal. Kitchen knives should be illegal because they have the potential to kill if used improperly.
The bottom line is people should have the freedom to use their own judgement. Education is the answer, not banning everything. The farthest it should go is to make you show ID when buying it that you're over 18.
TheDarkSideNinja
New member
AGREED.....
We will never see this though since we don't have all our freedoms and we live in what some peeps call an Independent Rep. Democracy The hell with bloody liberals and scandulous republicans i guess im more towards Libertarian i.e. keep govt. outta my shit!!! None-the-less yea your right people should have the right to decide what they want to do....this is America after all right??? But i guess they take our freedom of choice away sometimes to protect the ignorant from harm..well whata ya gonna do!!!! ~JT~
We will never see this though since we don't have all our freedoms and we live in what some peeps call an Independent Rep. Democracy The hell with bloody liberals and scandulous republicans i guess im more towards Libertarian i.e. keep govt. outta my shit!!! None-the-less yea your right people should have the right to decide what they want to do....this is America after all right??? But i guess they take our freedom of choice away sometimes to protect the ignorant from harm..well whata ya gonna do!!!! ~JT~
The only problem I see with Ephedrine is an irritated prostate and occasional Ephedra dick. But those go away soon after I stop using. Otherwise I see ephedrine and ephedra as effective dietiing and energy tools, that when used correctly are safe and effective. Hell, what else would allow me to live normally while on DNP?
chanmanfoo
New member
ninja, you use steroids but are in favor of banning ephedra? i dont know about you but the fact that steroids are illegal is quite a burden on my lifestyle. why pass this burden on further because a bunch of soccer moms are lobbying in washington? i feel we need to stand up to this sort of heavy handed legislation.
foo
foo
I love ephedra. I've been taking it since The first "Stacker" came out. I probably wouldn't still be playing ball without it. That was back in '95. I had a bad rotator cuff and couldn't throw without pain. Between the White Willow Bark and the Ephedra I can honestly say I am as good as new. Plus I love the intensity this stuff adds to my game. I'll just make sure I have what I need. We all know the deal, everything is fine till someone gets hurt. Then regardless of the circumstances the drug gets the blame.
yo ninja,
yeah i will find them, just give me a couple days, i ahve tons of research shit burried around my apartment. also i am slow with computers and am slammed with school(priorites are fucked up i know). but i am passionate about this. i will find for you soon. thanks for your patience.
yeah i will find them, just give me a couple days, i ahve tons of research shit burried around my apartment. also i am slow with computers and am slammed with school(priorites are fucked up i know). but i am passionate about this. i will find for you soon. thanks for your patience.
TheDarkSideNinja
New member
ChanManFo - Thta's incorrect i never used A.S. i am natural for the current time. I have thought of a cycle and is a possibility in the future!!! I'm not against anything just think everyone needs to do their research before trying things thats it to keep them safe.
Little Peter - I'm looking forward to those studies. Thanks for your time and effort in looking for them i appreciate it.
~JT~
Little Peter - I'm looking forward to those studies. Thanks for your time and effort in looking for them i appreciate it.
~JT~
You're thinking about juicing, yet you condemn ephedra as an unsafe supplement. Keep in mind that ephedra simply boosts basal metabolism by 2 to 3%, which is somewhat similar to the effect one gets by doing a nice speedwalk- HARDLY dangerous unless you have a pre-existing condition.
Juice but no ephedra b/c its not safe......LMFAO
Juice but no ephedra b/c its not safe......LMFAO
TheDarkSideNinja
New member
NO...
First off POANTRX or whatever your name is i can tell your def. a novice by how ignorant u can be sometimes. I never said A.S. was safe or safer than Ephedra. I simply with either a risk will always be possible and i know your bullshit comeback to that is going to be you can walk outside and get hit by a car just as easily but ive been around for a while so i know this shit. Don't let the name full u im far from a novice and sure know a hell of a lot more then u!!! End of discussion bro. ~JT~
First off POANTRX or whatever your name is i can tell your def. a novice by how ignorant u can be sometimes. I never said A.S. was safe or safer than Ephedra. I simply with either a risk will always be possible and i know your bullshit comeback to that is going to be you can walk outside and get hit by a car just as easily but ive been around for a while so i know this shit. Don't let the name full u im far from a novice and sure know a hell of a lot more then u!!! End of discussion bro. ~JT~
Complete Muscle
New member
Ephedra causes prostate swelling!??
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/avantforum/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=2741
........comments???
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/avantforum/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=2741
........comments???
Themachine01
New member
I have stopped using ephedra such as hydroxycut and xenedrine and have starting making my own ECA, which includes ephedrine, which is not the same as ephedra. I see alot of people thinking these 2 are the same.
ProteinFiend
New member
Themachine01 said:
Agreed. All the studies are done on ephedrine I believe. No one knows of the adverse effects of ephedra. The numerous other alkoids in ephdra extract other than the ephedrine alkoid may not have desireable efffects on the body. Thus, It is a lot better just to get the pure shit: Ephedrine HCL.
As for the prostate question. IT can swell the prostate... but only temporarily (to my knowledge). I have never had a problem with it.
were can i get the eph HCL, i have used anything and everything for the last 5 years. very consistantly. i usually take 50mg prior to very workout. my current supplty is thermo burn. i love it so far. ingredients-maHuang,caffiene, whit willow, colleus foskolli, yohimbine, hydroxycitric acid, l-carnitine, synephrine,and chromium, no fucked up drops or sides like with hydoxycut or xenadrine.
ProteinFiend
New member
Sinistar said:
doubt the validity of that claim, but would love to see the article!
TheDarkSideNinja
New member
Hmmm....
Well it seems all ive seen so far on this thread is opinions!!! I would like to see how yall stake your claims when it comes to Ephedra!!! Show me university studies which say Ephedra is safe for everyone and i will close my case!!!! ~JT~
Well it seems all ive seen so far on this thread is opinions!!! I would like to see how yall stake your claims when it comes to Ephedra!!! Show me university studies which say Ephedra is safe for everyone and i will close my case!!!! ~JT~
OF course its not safe for everyone you moron. Its not safe for those with pre-existing heart or liver conditions, or those that are morbidly obese. Then again, running is unsafe for alot of people too.
For the rest of us, its fine if taken in moderation, ONCE AGAIN a 3% increase in metabolism is hardly life threatening for the average in shape person.
For the rest of us, its fine if taken in moderation, ONCE AGAIN a 3% increase in metabolism is hardly life threatening for the average in shape person.
B
Baoh
Guest
TheDarkSideNinja
Pick a new school, kiddo.
Pick a new school, kiddo.
Delinquent
Well-known member
Here's a study I found originally posted by Serge.
ECA stack analisys (xenadrene)
The Effect Of Commercial
Thermogenic Weight Loss Supplement On Body Composition And Energy Expenditure In Obese Adults.
JEPonline. 2001;4(2):28-34. The purpose was to determine the effects of an herbal preparation containing ma
huang, bitter orange and guarana on resting energy expenditure (REE), blood chemistries, and body
composition in obese adults. Five males and 15 females (age=31± 6.6 yr, height=168.1 ± 8.4 cm,
weight=93.4± 17.1 kg, %fat=43.8 ± 6.5%) were matched, randomly assigned to either the supplement (N=12) or
placebo (N=8) group, and participated in a 44 d aerobic exercise program (3 d/wk). REE was determined by
open-circuit spirometry, and serum samples were analyzed for glucose, cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL, and
LDL. Changes in body mass (BM), %fat, fat mass (FM), and fat-free mass (FFM) were determined using
DEXA. Due to limited compliance, pre- and post-treatment diet recalls were analyzed for only 14 subjects
(supplement=9, placebo=5). Analysis included doubly MANOVA repeated measures (diet recalls and blood
chemistries) and independent t-tests (REE and body composition) at á<0.05. The only significant difference
was in FM (p=0.033). When a more liberal alpha (á<0.10) is considered, %fat and BM were significant
(p=0.096 and 0.087). The supplement, thus, may result in reductions in FM, %fat and BM, but has little effect
on energy expenditure, diet or blood chemistries following a six-week period of supplementation and training.
Key Words: Cholesterol, Dexa, Energy Expenditure, Ephedrine, Exercise, Glucose, Ma Huang, Triglycerides,
Weight Loss
INTRODUCTION
Obesity is becoming increasingly prevalent in the United States (5). Because it is an established risk factor in
hypertension, non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, hyperlipidemia, and atherosclerosis, finding effective
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 29
treatments for this disease is imperative. Obesity is often considered to be the product of inactivity and overeating.
However, simplistic understanding of obesity fails to consider more complex issues of this disease such
as genetics, psychology, and behavior. Obesity may also involve diminished sympathetic nervous system
regulation of thermogenesis (15).
Recent research indicates that ephedrine, a sympathomimetic compound, may have some anti-obesity properties
(1). It has been shown to increase energy expenditure in humans (1, 14) and rhesus monkeys (13). When
combined with caffeine and a restricted diet it may have an even greater effect on improving and maintaining
body composition (3, 6, 13, 16). Daly and co-workers support a strategy of combining low doses of ephedrine,
caffeine, and aspirin for sympathomimetic stimulation of thermogenesis (6). Large doses of ephedrine may,
though, present substantial risk to the patient (2, 4, 7, 8, 9). Reported risks include nephrolithiasis (2),
psychiatric disturbances (9), manic-like symptoms (7), seizures, cardiovascular events, and even death (4).
Thus, low doses of several agents may minimize toxicity (6).
Ephedrine enhances the release of norepinephrine (NE) from the sympathetic nerve terminal. As NE levels
increase, however, the thermogenic response may be limited by the release by the stimulated tissue of adenosine
and prostaglandins (PG), which act as prejunctional inhibitors (6). Caffeine and aspirin may remove these
inhibitions by antagonizing adenosine and phosphodiesterases and inhibiting PG synthesis, respectively, thereby
increasing and sustaining NE activation of the effector cell (6).
Ephedrine may affect appetite. It has been reported to decrease food consumption in obese rhesus monkeys
(13). Daly and associates (6), on the other hand, observed no difference in self-reported appetite between
human subjects taking an ephedrine-caffeine-aspirin combination. Likewise, Pasquali and co-workers (11)
noted a lack of anorectic effect. Neither group, however, reported any statistical analysis.
The purpose of the present study was to examine the effects of one particular commercially available
preparation (Xenadrine RFA-1, Cytodyne Technologies, Lakewood, NJ) containing ma huang, a botanical from
of ephedrine, and guarana extract (caffeine) on body composition, resting energy expenditure, and appetite
while combined with moderate aerobic activity.
Methods
Subjects
Twenty-six subjects (20 females and 6 males) were recruited from the student, staff, and faculty populations at
Eastern Michigan University and the surrounding community by word of mouth, flyers, and advertisements in
the school newspapers. The subjects were matched according to age, gender, height, weight, and body fat and
randomly assigned to receive either the supplement (Suppl, n=13) or a placebo (Placebo, n=13) according to the
dosing sequence below. Among these, six (5 females and 1 male) dropped from the study for various reasons.
The male (Placebo) and one female (Suppl) subject withdrew with concerns over potential side effects. The
others (4 females, Placebo) withdrew for unrelated reasons. Thus, a total of 20 subjects completed the study
(Suppl, n=12; Placebo, n=8). All were apparently healthy, and free of contraindications to exercise as
determined by a self-reported medical history. Informed consent was obtained before participation and the
Eastern Michigan University College of Education Human Subjects Review Committee approved all
procedures. The subject demographics are reported in Table 1, and inclusion/exclusion criteria are listed in
Table 2.
Table 1. Physical Characteristics of Subjects (mean±SD)
Group (N) Age (yr) Height (cm) Body Weight (kg) Fat (%)
Supplement (12) 31.3±7.5 165.9±7.4 91.6±16.1 44.8±4.8
Placebo (8) 30.4±5.4 172.0±8.9 96.1±19.2 42.4±8.5
Combined (20) 31.0±6.6 168.1±8.4 93.4±17.1 43.8±6.5
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 30
Table 2. Inclusion and Exclusion Criteria
Inclusion criteria:
1) age 18-40 years
2) >20% fat for males and >30% fat for females (as determined using dual-energy x-ray
absorptiometry, DEXA)
3) sedentary to moderately active (aerobic activity <3 d/wk)
4) informed consent
Exclusion criteria:
1) pregnant or desiring to get pregnant
2) lactating
3) orthopedic problems
4) considerable amount of weight loss (>30 lb) during previous three months
5) use of weight loss supplements during previous three months
6) hypertensive (>140/90 mm Hg)
7) history of heart, liver, thyroid, or psychiatric disease, diabetes, anemia, nervousness,
anxiety, depression, seizure disorder, stroke
Treatment
The supplement, Xenadrine RFA-1 (Cytodyne Technologies, Lakewood, NJ) and placebo were of like
characteristics and distribution (Table 3). For the first two days of supplementation the subjects each took one
capsule before breakfast (approximately 8-9 AM) and one capsule before the afternoon meal (approximately 2-3
PM). Thereafter, the number of capsules increased to two for both the AM and PM administrations throughout
the 44-day supplementation period.
Table 3. Ingredient Content of Supplement and Placebo (per two capsule dose)
Supplement (Xenadrine RFA-1, Cytodyne Technologies, Lakewood, NJ):
¨ pantothenic acid (40 mg)
¨ bitter orange (85 mg, standardized for 5 mg synephrine)
¨ ma huang (335 mg, standardized for 20 mg ephedrine)
¨ guarana extract (910 mg, standardized for 200 mg caffeine)
¨ white willow bark extract (105 mg, standardized for 15 mg salicin)
¨ ginger root (50 mg)
¨ proprietary ThermoSynergist Blend (225 mg, contains L-Tyrosine, Acetyl Lcarnitine,
Fisetin, Magnesium Phosphate, DMEA).
Placebo:
¨ cellulose
¨ like supplement in appearance and distribution
Testing
Pre- and post-testing consisted of two sessions each. In the morning of the testing day, the subject reported to
the applied physiology laboratory between 6 and 10 AM. The subject lay supine, quietly, with the eyes closed
on a padded table in a dimly lit, quiet room for 10 to 15 min. After this time they were fitted with a
mouthpiece, expired gases were recorded for 5 min, and daily resting energy expenditure (REE) was determined
from the fifth minute using open-circuit spirometry (Vmax, Sensormedics, Yorba Linda, CA) and is reported
relative to body weight (kcal/kg/d). Heart rate, blood pressure, and single-lead electrocardiogram were
recorded as precautionary measures and were not statistically analyzed.
Following the REE measures, 5 ml of blood was collected by venopuncture of an antecubetal vein or the
dorsum of the hand. Serum was separated and assayed for glucose (GLU), cholesterol (CHOL), triglycerides
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 31
(TRIG), and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL) by the Clinical Laboratory Sciences Department at
Eastern Michigan University. Low-density lipoprotein cholesterol was calculated using the following equation:
LDL = CHOL – HDL – (TRIG/5).
Body composition was measured during the afternoon session in the DEXA (Prodigy model, Lunar Radiation
Corporation, Madison, WI) laboratory of the Radiology Department at St. Joseph Mercy Hospital in Ypsilanti,
Michigan by trained technicians under the supervision of a physician. This provided data for total body mass
(BM), percent fat (%fat), fat mass (FM), and fat-free mass (FFM). DEXA provides a precise, threecompartment
analysis with a low radiation exposure (10). It is considered to be a viable tool for measuring
body composition (10,12) with precision errors for total body bone mineral density (BMD), %fat, FM, and FFM
less than 0.01 g/cm2, 1.4%, 1.0 kg, and 0.8 kg, respectively (10).
Because the supplement being studied is purported to have a suppressive effect on the appetite, subjects were
asked to record a 3-day dietary recall on a weekly basis. As a result of limited compliance, pre-post data were
available for only 14 subjects (Suppl=9, Placebo=5). These were analyzed for three-day averages of total caloric
intake (KCAL), total protein (PROT), total carbohydrate (CHO), and total fat (FAT) using Nutritional Software
Libraryä (Compnutrition, Chatsworth, CA).
Exercise Training Protocol
The aerobic exercise was conducted on the indoor track at Eastern Michigan University during one of three
monitored sessions (6-9 AM, 11 AM to 1 PM, or 5-7 PM). The first week following pre-testing consisted of
two pre-conditioning walks of 1.5 miles at a comfortable pace (brisk, but not exhaustive). This distance was
increased to 2.0 miles three days per week for the duration of the training and subjects were permitted to build
up to a jog, if desired. If the subject was unable to attend a scheduled session, he/she was encouraged to make
up the session independently. While make-up sessions could not be verified, the researchers did follow-up with
the subject and accepted their word that the session was performed.
Data Analysis
The SPSS 10.0 for Windows statistical package was used for all statistical analyses. Differences pre-to-post in
REE relative to body weight (REE/BM), BM, %fat, FM, and FFM were compared using independent t-tests.
The three-day diet recall data and blood chemistries were analyzed using doubly MANOVA repeated measures
to determine whether there were significant effects for time and group by time for the linear combination of the
dependent variables. The data are reported as mean ± S.D. and Student’s t-tests were used to compare initial
group differences for age, BM, height, and %fat. In addition, effect sizes (d) for the dependent variables were
calculated based upon means and standard
deviations obtained from the pre- and posttreatment
Suppl data (Table 4). Significance
was set at a a-level of 0.05 for all analyses.
RESULTS
Pre-training Data
The mean (±SD) age, height, body weight, and
percent fat were 31.0 ± 7.5 yr, 168.3 ± 8.4 cm,
93.4 ± 17.1 kg, and 43.8 ± 6.5 %, respectively.
Although the Placebo was slightly taller, heavier
and leaner than Suppl (Table 1), the groups did
not differ significantly at the start of the study
(p= 0.769, 0.117, 0.577, and 0.421,
respectively).
REE and Body Composition Measures
The pre- and post-supplementation REE/BM and
body composition data for both groups are
Table 4. Effect Sizes (d) for Dependent Variables
Variable d
REE/BM (resting energy expenditure/body mass) 0.37
BM (body mass) 0.09
%fat (percent body fat) 0.43
FM (fat mass) 0.26
FFM (fat-free mass) 0.12
KCAL (kilocalories) 0.13
CHO (carbohydrates) 0.05
PROT (proteins) 0.25
FAT (fats) 0.26
GLUC (blood glucose) 0.15
CHOL (total cholesterol) 0.48
TRIG (triglycerides) 0.19
HDL (high-density lipoprotein cholesterol) 0.04
LDL (low-density lipoprotein cholesterol) 0.49
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 32
shown in Table 5. Independent t-tests revealed that the only significant difference between groups at a < 0.05
was FM (P = 0.688, 0.087, 0.096, 0.033, 0.554 for REE/BM, BM, %fat, FM, FFM, respectively).
Table 5. Mean Energy Expenditure and Body Composition Measures (±SD)
REE/BM
(kcal/kg/d)
%Fat (%)§ BM (kg) § FM (kg)* FFM (kg) Variable
pre post pre post pre post pre post pre post
SUPPL
(N = 12)
17.77
(2.86)
19.22
(4.97)
44.82
(4.81)
42.47
(6.21)
91.63
(16.13)
90.18
(16.33)
41.22
(9.33)
38.65
(10.67)
47.66
(8.71)
48.74
(8.55)
PLACEBO
(N = 8)
18.00
(2.70)
18.35
(2.71)
42.38
(8.53)
41.76
(8.43)
96.14
(19.20)
96.36
(20.85)
41.09
(13.59)
40.60
(14.09)
51.89
(11.25)
52.56
(11.91)
* P £ 0.05 ; § P £ 0.10
Diet Analysis
The pre- and post-supplementation diet recall data for both groups are shown in Table 6. Using MANOVA,
there was no significant change in the subjects’ diets over the supplementation period (P = 0.129), nor was there
a significant difference between groups for KCAL, PROT, CHO, and FAT combined (p=0.622).
Table 6. Mean Dietary Intakes (±SD)
KCAL PROT (g) CHO (g) FAT (g) Variable
pre post pre post pre post pre post
SUPPL
(N=9)
2251.00
(1107.50)
2140.00
(618.51)
98.24
(44.64)
88.71
(30.35)
278.21
(137.40)
272.47
(115.10)
81.89
(48.25)
72.00
(26.56)
PLACEBO
(N=5)
2440.20
(587.58)
2134.80
(764.12)
87.04
(26.52)
74.08
(10.18)
311.18
(73.59)
315.54
(134.33)
97.60
(33.19)
66.14
(43.36)
Blood Chemistries
The pre- and post-supplementation blood chemistry data for both groups are shown in Table 7. Using
MANOVA, there was no significant change in the subjects’ blood chemistries over the supplementation period
(p=0.094), and there was no significant difference between groups for GLUC, CHOL, TRIG, HDL, and LDL
combined (p=0.775).
Table 7. Mean Blood Chemistry Measures (±SD)
GLUC (mg/dl) CHOL (mg/dl) TRIG (mg/dl) HDL (mg/dl) LDL (mg/dl) Variable
pre post pre post pre post pre post pre post
SUPPL
(N=12)
85.17
(11.18)
87.33
(16.85)
181.50
(20.86)
170.67
(24.67)
121.42
(62.67)
136.67
(100.65)
35.92
(8.12)
35.58
(7.29)
121.83
(25.70)
107.67
(32.06)
PLACEBO
(N=8)
79.75
(7.23)
87.12
(4.61)
166.38
(20.20)
159.88
(23.50)
81.75
(55.43)
96.25
(68.65)
40.12
(8.25)
35.62
(6.07)
110.62
(17.28)
105.00
(17.21)
DISCUSSION
The present study was initiated to ascertain whether six weeks of supplementation of a commercially available
thermogenic weight loss supplement (Xenadrine RFA-1) would affect body composition, appetite, and resting
energy expenditure in obese men and women. Previous research has indicated that botanical ephedrine (ma
huang) increases resting energy expenditure in obese rhesus monkeys (13) and humans (1,12). Likewise,
ephedrine is reported to facilitate weight loss in obese rhesus monkeys (13). When combined with caffeine the
effects appear to be magnified (16). The addition of aspirin has also been proposed (6).
The supplement, Xenadrine RFA-1, is standardized to doses of 20 mg of botanical ephedrine (ma huang) and
200 mg of caffeine (guarana extract) per 2 capsule dose. According Gurley et al. (8), the pharmacokinetics of
botanical ephedrine are similar to those of synthetic ephedrine. Thus, the content of ma huang contained within
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 33
the product tested is consistent with the treatments used in the reviewed studies. When the effect ephedrine
alone in human subjects was examined, doses were 10, 20, and 40 mg (1), 25 and 50 mg (11), or 50 mg three
times a day (14). Combined doses of ephedrine and caffeine were 20 mg and 200 mg (16). Unlike the previous
research, Xenadrine RFA-1 contains an additional sympathomimetic agent, bitter orange (standardized for 5 mg
synephrine).
It was expected that the ingested dosage would promote changes in body composition. The only change of
statistical significance was FM (p=0.033). There was, however, a modest decrease in BM and %fat for subjects
taking the supplement (p=0.087 and 0.096, respectively). This is comparable to Daly and associates (6), who
reported a significantly greater mean cumulative weight loss in subjects taking an ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin
combination (-1.8 kg vs 0.5 kg). These changes may have been offset by variable increases in FFM (-2.38 kg to
+4.03 kg). All but four subjects lost fat mass (1 Suppl and 3 Placebo), whereas only 12 subjects gained lean
mass (7 Suppl and 5 Placebo or 58.3% and 62.5%, respectively). Hence, while the supplement may promote fat
loss, its effect on lean mass is equivocal.
That resting energy expenditure relative to body weight did not increase during the supplementation period may
not be inconsistent with previous research. While Shannon and co-workers (14) observed an increase in mean
24-hr energy expenditure, but not in basal metabolic rate determined between 6:30 and 7:30. This measure was
recorded approximately 11-12 h following the last dose of ephedrine. In the present study, postsupplementation
resting energy expenditure was determined after a much longer period. Subjects ingested their
final dose in the afternoon prior to the testing session, which was scheduled between 6:00 and 10:30. This may
have been sufficient time for the effects of the supplement to diminish.
It must also be considered that the method used to measure REE is not without limitations. Breathing through a
mouthpiece allows for only a brief sample of expired gases while the subject is awake, but relaxed.
Additionally, such an apparatus may affect sympathetic activity (14). Ideally, a metabolic chamber should be
used for extended sampling.
Analysis of serum glucose, cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL cholesterol, and LDL cholesterol revealed no effect
of supplementation. This is consistent with the results reported by Daly and associates (6). These researchers
observed no change in glucose, insulin, cholesterol, and HDL cholesterol after 8 wk supplementation of an
ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin mixture. While there seems to be no benefit on these components of the blood, it
may be noted that there were no negative effects observed in the blood.
Diet analysis also failed to indicate any effect of intake of energy, protein, carbohydrate, or fat. This is
consistent with Daly et al. (6) who also observed no significant differences in self-reported appetite.
Compliance was an issue, however. Of the 20 subjects studied, only 7 completed all of the requested recalls.
Only the pre- and post-supplementation recalls were analyzed (N = 14) in order to maximize the observed
power.
Another consideration regarding the failure to observe changes in appetite is that recall of food consumed may
not be a sufficient measure of hunger in obesity. Obesity involves complex psychological factors, as well as
physiological and behavioral factors. At the conclusion of the study, one subject expressed awareness of a
pattern of disordered eating. Differing schedules may affect how much was eaten from day to day and subject
to subject. The quantity of food eaten may also be linked to habit or emotional need rather than physical need.
Therefore, a different approach to measuring appetite should be considered.
Side Effects
While side effects were not measured directly, close attention was paid to any adverse affect of the
supplementation. Of the subjects who started on the supplement, only two noted any discomfort. One (female)
reported heightened anxiousness and elevated heart rate during the first few days of the study. These symptoms
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 34
soon passed and the subject continued unaffected. One subject, however, did excuse herself from the study
because she was uncomfortable with the elevated heart rate and feeling of “warmed blood.” Such reactions to
products such as the one tested are not uncommon. Previous researchers have reported side effects such as dry
mouth, jitters, and constipation (1, 6, 11, 16), headache and insomnia (11, 16) in a few subjects while others
have reported more severe side effects such as vomiting, abdominal pain, and tremor (3) nephrolithiasis (2),
psychological disorders (7, 9), seizures, cardiovascular events, and death (4). Of the studies reviewed, however,
only Cupps (4), Gurley et al. (8), and Jacobs and Hirsch (9) speak to herbal ephedrine (ma huang). In most
cases, the symptoms are mild and reported to disappear within a month. Gurley and co-workers (8) suggest that
severe cases of ma huang toxicity tend to be associated with abuse of the supplement. Therefore, close attention
to the manufacturers precautions and to unusual symptoms should be stressed.
Statistical Power
Effect sizes for the dependent variables (Table 4) are small-to-moderate (0.09 to 0.49). Hence, the ability to
detect real differences is limited by a small sample size. The ability to detect changes in REE/BM, %fat, and
FM, in particular, may have suffered. Given these effect sizes (d = 0.37, 0.43, and 0.26, respectively), a sample
size in excess of 90 subjects per group is required to obtain power of at least 0.80 (17). In addition, tighter
controls over diet analysis and the measurement of appetite is necessary.
Suggestions for Future Research
While this study may indicate some positive effect of ephedrine/caffeine supplementation on body weight and
percentage fat, further research is needed to more clearly examine the safety and efficacy a thermogenic weight
loss supplement such as the one studied. A longer training period may be necessary. Toubro and co-workers
(16) observed a significant weight loss in subjects treated with ephedrine plus caffeine only after eight weeks.
As well, more precise measurement of energy expenditure over a longer period of time is recommended. Diet
recall should be more tightly overseen and some measure of appetite level should be included.
REFERENCES
1. Astrup A, Soubro S, Cannon S, Hein P, Madsen J. Thermogenic, metabolic, and cardiovascular effects of a
sympathomimetic agent, ephedrine. Curr Ther Res 1990;48(6):1087-1100.
2. Blau JJ. Ephedrine nephrolithiasis associated with chronic ephedrine abuse. J Urol 1998;160:825.
3. Breum L, Pedersen JK, Ahlstrøm F, Frimodt-Møller J. Comparison of an ephedrine/caffeine combination
and dexfenfluramine in the treatment of obesity. A double-blind multi-centre trial in general practice. Int J
Obesity 1994;18:99-103.
4. Cupps MJ. Herbal remedies: adverse effects and drug interactions. Am Fam Physician 1999;59(5):1239-
1244.
5. Dalton S. Overweight and weight management: the health professional’s guide to understanding and
practice. Gaithersburg: Aspen Publishers, Inc., 1997.
6. Daly PA, Krieger DR, Dulloo AG, Young JB, Landsberg L. Ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin: safety and
efficacy for treatment of human obesity. Int J Obesity 1993;17(Suppl. 1):S73-S78.
7. Emmanuel NP, Jones C, Lydiard, RB. Use of herbal products and symptoms of bipolar disorder. Am J
Psychiatry 1998;155(11):1627.
8. Gurley BJ, Gardner SF, White LM, Wang P-L. Ephedrine pharmokinetics after ingestion of natural
supplements containing Ephedra sinica (ma huang). Ther Drug Monit 1998;20:439-445.
9. Jacobs KM, Hirsch KA. Psychiatric complications of ma-huang. Psychosomatics 2000;41(1):58-62.
10. Mazess RB, Barden HS, Bisek JP, Hanson J. Dual-energy x-ray absortiometry for total-body and regional
bone mineral and soft-tissue composition. Am J Clin Nutr 1990;51:1106-1112.
11. Pasquali R, Baraldi G, Cesari MP, Melchionda N, Zamboni M, Stefanini C, Raitano A. A controlled trial
using ephedrine in treatment of obesity. Int J Obesity 1985;9:93-98.
12. Pierson RN, Wang J, Heymsfield SB, Russell-Aulet M, Mazariegos M, Tierney M, Smith R, Thornton JC,
Kehayias J, Weber DA, Dilmanian. Measuring body fat: calibrating the rulers. Intermethod comparisons in
389 normal Caucasian subjects. Am J Physiol 1991;261:E103-E108.
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 35
13. Ramsey JJ, Colman RJ, Swick AG, Kemnitz JW. Energy expenditure, body composition, and glucose
metabolism in lean and obese rhesus monkeys treated with ephedrine and caffeine. Am J Clin Nutr
1998;68:42-51.
14. Shannon JR, Gottesdiener K, Jordan J, Chen K, Flattery S, Larson PJ, Candelore MR, Gertz B, Robertson
D, Sun M. Acute effect of ephedrine on 24-h energy balance. Clin Sci 1999;96:483-491.
15. Spraul M, Ravussin E, Fontvieille AM, Rising R, Larson DE, Anderson EA. Reduced sympathetic nervous
system activity. A potential mechanism predisposing to body weight gain. J Clin Invest 1993; 92 (4):1730-
1735.
16. Toubro S, Astrup A, Breum L, Quaade F. Safety and efficacy of long-term treatment with ephedrine,
caffeine and an ephedrine/caffeine mixture. Int J Obesity 1993;17(Suppl. 1):S69-S72.
17. Vincent WJ. Statistics in Kinesiology, 2nd ed. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics, 1999.
Address for correspondence: Dr. W. Jeffrey Armstrong, Department of HPERD, Eastern Michigan
University, Ypsilanti, MI 48197. E-mail: [email protected].
ECA stack analisys (xenadrene)
The Effect Of Commercial
Thermogenic Weight Loss Supplement On Body Composition And Energy Expenditure In Obese Adults.
JEPonline. 2001;4(2):28-34. The purpose was to determine the effects of an herbal preparation containing ma
huang, bitter orange and guarana on resting energy expenditure (REE), blood chemistries, and body
composition in obese adults. Five males and 15 females (age=31± 6.6 yr, height=168.1 ± 8.4 cm,
weight=93.4± 17.1 kg, %fat=43.8 ± 6.5%) were matched, randomly assigned to either the supplement (N=12) or
placebo (N=8) group, and participated in a 44 d aerobic exercise program (3 d/wk). REE was determined by
open-circuit spirometry, and serum samples were analyzed for glucose, cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL, and
LDL. Changes in body mass (BM), %fat, fat mass (FM), and fat-free mass (FFM) were determined using
DEXA. Due to limited compliance, pre- and post-treatment diet recalls were analyzed for only 14 subjects
(supplement=9, placebo=5). Analysis included doubly MANOVA repeated measures (diet recalls and blood
chemistries) and independent t-tests (REE and body composition) at á<0.05. The only significant difference
was in FM (p=0.033). When a more liberal alpha (á<0.10) is considered, %fat and BM were significant
(p=0.096 and 0.087). The supplement, thus, may result in reductions in FM, %fat and BM, but has little effect
on energy expenditure, diet or blood chemistries following a six-week period of supplementation and training.
Key Words: Cholesterol, Dexa, Energy Expenditure, Ephedrine, Exercise, Glucose, Ma Huang, Triglycerides,
Weight Loss
INTRODUCTION
Obesity is becoming increasingly prevalent in the United States (5). Because it is an established risk factor in
hypertension, non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, hyperlipidemia, and atherosclerosis, finding effective
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 29
treatments for this disease is imperative. Obesity is often considered to be the product of inactivity and overeating.
However, simplistic understanding of obesity fails to consider more complex issues of this disease such
as genetics, psychology, and behavior. Obesity may also involve diminished sympathetic nervous system
regulation of thermogenesis (15).
Recent research indicates that ephedrine, a sympathomimetic compound, may have some anti-obesity properties
(1). It has been shown to increase energy expenditure in humans (1, 14) and rhesus monkeys (13). When
combined with caffeine and a restricted diet it may have an even greater effect on improving and maintaining
body composition (3, 6, 13, 16). Daly and co-workers support a strategy of combining low doses of ephedrine,
caffeine, and aspirin for sympathomimetic stimulation of thermogenesis (6). Large doses of ephedrine may,
though, present substantial risk to the patient (2, 4, 7, 8, 9). Reported risks include nephrolithiasis (2),
psychiatric disturbances (9), manic-like symptoms (7), seizures, cardiovascular events, and even death (4).
Thus, low doses of several agents may minimize toxicity (6).
Ephedrine enhances the release of norepinephrine (NE) from the sympathetic nerve terminal. As NE levels
increase, however, the thermogenic response may be limited by the release by the stimulated tissue of adenosine
and prostaglandins (PG), which act as prejunctional inhibitors (6). Caffeine and aspirin may remove these
inhibitions by antagonizing adenosine and phosphodiesterases and inhibiting PG synthesis, respectively, thereby
increasing and sustaining NE activation of the effector cell (6).
Ephedrine may affect appetite. It has been reported to decrease food consumption in obese rhesus monkeys
(13). Daly and associates (6), on the other hand, observed no difference in self-reported appetite between
human subjects taking an ephedrine-caffeine-aspirin combination. Likewise, Pasquali and co-workers (11)
noted a lack of anorectic effect. Neither group, however, reported any statistical analysis.
The purpose of the present study was to examine the effects of one particular commercially available
preparation (Xenadrine RFA-1, Cytodyne Technologies, Lakewood, NJ) containing ma huang, a botanical from
of ephedrine, and guarana extract (caffeine) on body composition, resting energy expenditure, and appetite
while combined with moderate aerobic activity.
Methods
Subjects
Twenty-six subjects (20 females and 6 males) were recruited from the student, staff, and faculty populations at
Eastern Michigan University and the surrounding community by word of mouth, flyers, and advertisements in
the school newspapers. The subjects were matched according to age, gender, height, weight, and body fat and
randomly assigned to receive either the supplement (Suppl, n=13) or a placebo (Placebo, n=13) according to the
dosing sequence below. Among these, six (5 females and 1 male) dropped from the study for various reasons.
The male (Placebo) and one female (Suppl) subject withdrew with concerns over potential side effects. The
others (4 females, Placebo) withdrew for unrelated reasons. Thus, a total of 20 subjects completed the study
(Suppl, n=12; Placebo, n=8). All were apparently healthy, and free of contraindications to exercise as
determined by a self-reported medical history. Informed consent was obtained before participation and the
Eastern Michigan University College of Education Human Subjects Review Committee approved all
procedures. The subject demographics are reported in Table 1, and inclusion/exclusion criteria are listed in
Table 2.
Table 1. Physical Characteristics of Subjects (mean±SD)
Group (N) Age (yr) Height (cm) Body Weight (kg) Fat (%)
Supplement (12) 31.3±7.5 165.9±7.4 91.6±16.1 44.8±4.8
Placebo (8) 30.4±5.4 172.0±8.9 96.1±19.2 42.4±8.5
Combined (20) 31.0±6.6 168.1±8.4 93.4±17.1 43.8±6.5
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 30
Table 2. Inclusion and Exclusion Criteria
Inclusion criteria:
1) age 18-40 years
2) >20% fat for males and >30% fat for females (as determined using dual-energy x-ray
absorptiometry, DEXA)
3) sedentary to moderately active (aerobic activity <3 d/wk)
4) informed consent
Exclusion criteria:
1) pregnant or desiring to get pregnant
2) lactating
3) orthopedic problems
4) considerable amount of weight loss (>30 lb) during previous three months
5) use of weight loss supplements during previous three months
6) hypertensive (>140/90 mm Hg)
7) history of heart, liver, thyroid, or psychiatric disease, diabetes, anemia, nervousness,
anxiety, depression, seizure disorder, stroke
Treatment
The supplement, Xenadrine RFA-1 (Cytodyne Technologies, Lakewood, NJ) and placebo were of like
characteristics and distribution (Table 3). For the first two days of supplementation the subjects each took one
capsule before breakfast (approximately 8-9 AM) and one capsule before the afternoon meal (approximately 2-3
PM). Thereafter, the number of capsules increased to two for both the AM and PM administrations throughout
the 44-day supplementation period.
Table 3. Ingredient Content of Supplement and Placebo (per two capsule dose)
Supplement (Xenadrine RFA-1, Cytodyne Technologies, Lakewood, NJ):
¨ pantothenic acid (40 mg)
¨ bitter orange (85 mg, standardized for 5 mg synephrine)
¨ ma huang (335 mg, standardized for 20 mg ephedrine)
¨ guarana extract (910 mg, standardized for 200 mg caffeine)
¨ white willow bark extract (105 mg, standardized for 15 mg salicin)
¨ ginger root (50 mg)
¨ proprietary ThermoSynergist Blend (225 mg, contains L-Tyrosine, Acetyl Lcarnitine,
Fisetin, Magnesium Phosphate, DMEA).
Placebo:
¨ cellulose
¨ like supplement in appearance and distribution
Testing
Pre- and post-testing consisted of two sessions each. In the morning of the testing day, the subject reported to
the applied physiology laboratory between 6 and 10 AM. The subject lay supine, quietly, with the eyes closed
on a padded table in a dimly lit, quiet room for 10 to 15 min. After this time they were fitted with a
mouthpiece, expired gases were recorded for 5 min, and daily resting energy expenditure (REE) was determined
from the fifth minute using open-circuit spirometry (Vmax, Sensormedics, Yorba Linda, CA) and is reported
relative to body weight (kcal/kg/d). Heart rate, blood pressure, and single-lead electrocardiogram were
recorded as precautionary measures and were not statistically analyzed.
Following the REE measures, 5 ml of blood was collected by venopuncture of an antecubetal vein or the
dorsum of the hand. Serum was separated and assayed for glucose (GLU), cholesterol (CHOL), triglycerides
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 31
(TRIG), and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL) by the Clinical Laboratory Sciences Department at
Eastern Michigan University. Low-density lipoprotein cholesterol was calculated using the following equation:
LDL = CHOL – HDL – (TRIG/5).
Body composition was measured during the afternoon session in the DEXA (Prodigy model, Lunar Radiation
Corporation, Madison, WI) laboratory of the Radiology Department at St. Joseph Mercy Hospital in Ypsilanti,
Michigan by trained technicians under the supervision of a physician. This provided data for total body mass
(BM), percent fat (%fat), fat mass (FM), and fat-free mass (FFM). DEXA provides a precise, threecompartment
analysis with a low radiation exposure (10). It is considered to be a viable tool for measuring
body composition (10,12) with precision errors for total body bone mineral density (BMD), %fat, FM, and FFM
less than 0.01 g/cm2, 1.4%, 1.0 kg, and 0.8 kg, respectively (10).
Because the supplement being studied is purported to have a suppressive effect on the appetite, subjects were
asked to record a 3-day dietary recall on a weekly basis. As a result of limited compliance, pre-post data were
available for only 14 subjects (Suppl=9, Placebo=5). These were analyzed for three-day averages of total caloric
intake (KCAL), total protein (PROT), total carbohydrate (CHO), and total fat (FAT) using Nutritional Software
Libraryä (Compnutrition, Chatsworth, CA).
Exercise Training Protocol
The aerobic exercise was conducted on the indoor track at Eastern Michigan University during one of three
monitored sessions (6-9 AM, 11 AM to 1 PM, or 5-7 PM). The first week following pre-testing consisted of
two pre-conditioning walks of 1.5 miles at a comfortable pace (brisk, but not exhaustive). This distance was
increased to 2.0 miles three days per week for the duration of the training and subjects were permitted to build
up to a jog, if desired. If the subject was unable to attend a scheduled session, he/she was encouraged to make
up the session independently. While make-up sessions could not be verified, the researchers did follow-up with
the subject and accepted their word that the session was performed.
Data Analysis
The SPSS 10.0 for Windows statistical package was used for all statistical analyses. Differences pre-to-post in
REE relative to body weight (REE/BM), BM, %fat, FM, and FFM were compared using independent t-tests.
The three-day diet recall data and blood chemistries were analyzed using doubly MANOVA repeated measures
to determine whether there were significant effects for time and group by time for the linear combination of the
dependent variables. The data are reported as mean ± S.D. and Student’s t-tests were used to compare initial
group differences for age, BM, height, and %fat. In addition, effect sizes (d) for the dependent variables were
calculated based upon means and standard
deviations obtained from the pre- and posttreatment
Suppl data (Table 4). Significance
was set at a a-level of 0.05 for all analyses.
RESULTS
Pre-training Data
The mean (±SD) age, height, body weight, and
percent fat were 31.0 ± 7.5 yr, 168.3 ± 8.4 cm,
93.4 ± 17.1 kg, and 43.8 ± 6.5 %, respectively.
Although the Placebo was slightly taller, heavier
and leaner than Suppl (Table 1), the groups did
not differ significantly at the start of the study
(p= 0.769, 0.117, 0.577, and 0.421,
respectively).
REE and Body Composition Measures
The pre- and post-supplementation REE/BM and
body composition data for both groups are
Table 4. Effect Sizes (d) for Dependent Variables
Variable d
REE/BM (resting energy expenditure/body mass) 0.37
BM (body mass) 0.09
%fat (percent body fat) 0.43
FM (fat mass) 0.26
FFM (fat-free mass) 0.12
KCAL (kilocalories) 0.13
CHO (carbohydrates) 0.05
PROT (proteins) 0.25
FAT (fats) 0.26
GLUC (blood glucose) 0.15
CHOL (total cholesterol) 0.48
TRIG (triglycerides) 0.19
HDL (high-density lipoprotein cholesterol) 0.04
LDL (low-density lipoprotein cholesterol) 0.49
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 32
shown in Table 5. Independent t-tests revealed that the only significant difference between groups at a < 0.05
was FM (P = 0.688, 0.087, 0.096, 0.033, 0.554 for REE/BM, BM, %fat, FM, FFM, respectively).
Table 5. Mean Energy Expenditure and Body Composition Measures (±SD)
REE/BM
(kcal/kg/d)
%Fat (%)§ BM (kg) § FM (kg)* FFM (kg) Variable
pre post pre post pre post pre post pre post
SUPPL
(N = 12)
17.77
(2.86)
19.22
(4.97)
44.82
(4.81)
42.47
(6.21)
91.63
(16.13)
90.18
(16.33)
41.22
(9.33)
38.65
(10.67)
47.66
(8.71)
48.74
(8.55)
PLACEBO
(N = 8)
18.00
(2.70)
18.35
(2.71)
42.38
(8.53)
41.76
(8.43)
96.14
(19.20)
96.36
(20.85)
41.09
(13.59)
40.60
(14.09)
51.89
(11.25)
52.56
(11.91)
* P £ 0.05 ; § P £ 0.10
Diet Analysis
The pre- and post-supplementation diet recall data for both groups are shown in Table 6. Using MANOVA,
there was no significant change in the subjects’ diets over the supplementation period (P = 0.129), nor was there
a significant difference between groups for KCAL, PROT, CHO, and FAT combined (p=0.622).
Table 6. Mean Dietary Intakes (±SD)
KCAL PROT (g) CHO (g) FAT (g) Variable
pre post pre post pre post pre post
SUPPL
(N=9)
2251.00
(1107.50)
2140.00
(618.51)
98.24
(44.64)
88.71
(30.35)
278.21
(137.40)
272.47
(115.10)
81.89
(48.25)
72.00
(26.56)
PLACEBO
(N=5)
2440.20
(587.58)
2134.80
(764.12)
87.04
(26.52)
74.08
(10.18)
311.18
(73.59)
315.54
(134.33)
97.60
(33.19)
66.14
(43.36)
Blood Chemistries
The pre- and post-supplementation blood chemistry data for both groups are shown in Table 7. Using
MANOVA, there was no significant change in the subjects’ blood chemistries over the supplementation period
(p=0.094), and there was no significant difference between groups for GLUC, CHOL, TRIG, HDL, and LDL
combined (p=0.775).
Table 7. Mean Blood Chemistry Measures (±SD)
GLUC (mg/dl) CHOL (mg/dl) TRIG (mg/dl) HDL (mg/dl) LDL (mg/dl) Variable
pre post pre post pre post pre post pre post
SUPPL
(N=12)
85.17
(11.18)
87.33
(16.85)
181.50
(20.86)
170.67
(24.67)
121.42
(62.67)
136.67
(100.65)
35.92
(8.12)
35.58
(7.29)
121.83
(25.70)
107.67
(32.06)
PLACEBO
(N=8)
79.75
(7.23)
87.12
(4.61)
166.38
(20.20)
159.88
(23.50)
81.75
(55.43)
96.25
(68.65)
40.12
(8.25)
35.62
(6.07)
110.62
(17.28)
105.00
(17.21)
DISCUSSION
The present study was initiated to ascertain whether six weeks of supplementation of a commercially available
thermogenic weight loss supplement (Xenadrine RFA-1) would affect body composition, appetite, and resting
energy expenditure in obese men and women. Previous research has indicated that botanical ephedrine (ma
huang) increases resting energy expenditure in obese rhesus monkeys (13) and humans (1,12). Likewise,
ephedrine is reported to facilitate weight loss in obese rhesus monkeys (13). When combined with caffeine the
effects appear to be magnified (16). The addition of aspirin has also been proposed (6).
The supplement, Xenadrine RFA-1, is standardized to doses of 20 mg of botanical ephedrine (ma huang) and
200 mg of caffeine (guarana extract) per 2 capsule dose. According Gurley et al. (8), the pharmacokinetics of
botanical ephedrine are similar to those of synthetic ephedrine. Thus, the content of ma huang contained within
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 33
the product tested is consistent with the treatments used in the reviewed studies. When the effect ephedrine
alone in human subjects was examined, doses were 10, 20, and 40 mg (1), 25 and 50 mg (11), or 50 mg three
times a day (14). Combined doses of ephedrine and caffeine were 20 mg and 200 mg (16). Unlike the previous
research, Xenadrine RFA-1 contains an additional sympathomimetic agent, bitter orange (standardized for 5 mg
synephrine).
It was expected that the ingested dosage would promote changes in body composition. The only change of
statistical significance was FM (p=0.033). There was, however, a modest decrease in BM and %fat for subjects
taking the supplement (p=0.087 and 0.096, respectively). This is comparable to Daly and associates (6), who
reported a significantly greater mean cumulative weight loss in subjects taking an ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin
combination (-1.8 kg vs 0.5 kg). These changes may have been offset by variable increases in FFM (-2.38 kg to
+4.03 kg). All but four subjects lost fat mass (1 Suppl and 3 Placebo), whereas only 12 subjects gained lean
mass (7 Suppl and 5 Placebo or 58.3% and 62.5%, respectively). Hence, while the supplement may promote fat
loss, its effect on lean mass is equivocal.
That resting energy expenditure relative to body weight did not increase during the supplementation period may
not be inconsistent with previous research. While Shannon and co-workers (14) observed an increase in mean
24-hr energy expenditure, but not in basal metabolic rate determined between 6:30 and 7:30. This measure was
recorded approximately 11-12 h following the last dose of ephedrine. In the present study, postsupplementation
resting energy expenditure was determined after a much longer period. Subjects ingested their
final dose in the afternoon prior to the testing session, which was scheduled between 6:00 and 10:30. This may
have been sufficient time for the effects of the supplement to diminish.
It must also be considered that the method used to measure REE is not without limitations. Breathing through a
mouthpiece allows for only a brief sample of expired gases while the subject is awake, but relaxed.
Additionally, such an apparatus may affect sympathetic activity (14). Ideally, a metabolic chamber should be
used for extended sampling.
Analysis of serum glucose, cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL cholesterol, and LDL cholesterol revealed no effect
of supplementation. This is consistent with the results reported by Daly and associates (6). These researchers
observed no change in glucose, insulin, cholesterol, and HDL cholesterol after 8 wk supplementation of an
ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin mixture. While there seems to be no benefit on these components of the blood, it
may be noted that there were no negative effects observed in the blood.
Diet analysis also failed to indicate any effect of intake of energy, protein, carbohydrate, or fat. This is
consistent with Daly et al. (6) who also observed no significant differences in self-reported appetite.
Compliance was an issue, however. Of the 20 subjects studied, only 7 completed all of the requested recalls.
Only the pre- and post-supplementation recalls were analyzed (N = 14) in order to maximize the observed
power.
Another consideration regarding the failure to observe changes in appetite is that recall of food consumed may
not be a sufficient measure of hunger in obesity. Obesity involves complex psychological factors, as well as
physiological and behavioral factors. At the conclusion of the study, one subject expressed awareness of a
pattern of disordered eating. Differing schedules may affect how much was eaten from day to day and subject
to subject. The quantity of food eaten may also be linked to habit or emotional need rather than physical need.
Therefore, a different approach to measuring appetite should be considered.
Side Effects
While side effects were not measured directly, close attention was paid to any adverse affect of the
supplementation. Of the subjects who started on the supplement, only two noted any discomfort. One (female)
reported heightened anxiousness and elevated heart rate during the first few days of the study. These symptoms
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 34
soon passed and the subject continued unaffected. One subject, however, did excuse herself from the study
because she was uncomfortable with the elevated heart rate and feeling of “warmed blood.” Such reactions to
products such as the one tested are not uncommon. Previous researchers have reported side effects such as dry
mouth, jitters, and constipation (1, 6, 11, 16), headache and insomnia (11, 16) in a few subjects while others
have reported more severe side effects such as vomiting, abdominal pain, and tremor (3) nephrolithiasis (2),
psychological disorders (7, 9), seizures, cardiovascular events, and death (4). Of the studies reviewed, however,
only Cupps (4), Gurley et al. (8), and Jacobs and Hirsch (9) speak to herbal ephedrine (ma huang). In most
cases, the symptoms are mild and reported to disappear within a month. Gurley and co-workers (8) suggest that
severe cases of ma huang toxicity tend to be associated with abuse of the supplement. Therefore, close attention
to the manufacturers precautions and to unusual symptoms should be stressed.
Statistical Power
Effect sizes for the dependent variables (Table 4) are small-to-moderate (0.09 to 0.49). Hence, the ability to
detect real differences is limited by a small sample size. The ability to detect changes in REE/BM, %fat, and
FM, in particular, may have suffered. Given these effect sizes (d = 0.37, 0.43, and 0.26, respectively), a sample
size in excess of 90 subjects per group is required to obtain power of at least 0.80 (17). In addition, tighter
controls over diet analysis and the measurement of appetite is necessary.
Suggestions for Future Research
While this study may indicate some positive effect of ephedrine/caffeine supplementation on body weight and
percentage fat, further research is needed to more clearly examine the safety and efficacy a thermogenic weight
loss supplement such as the one studied. A longer training period may be necessary. Toubro and co-workers
(16) observed a significant weight loss in subjects treated with ephedrine plus caffeine only after eight weeks.
As well, more precise measurement of energy expenditure over a longer period of time is recommended. Diet
recall should be more tightly overseen and some measure of appetite level should be included.
REFERENCES
1. Astrup A, Soubro S, Cannon S, Hein P, Madsen J. Thermogenic, metabolic, and cardiovascular effects of a
sympathomimetic agent, ephedrine. Curr Ther Res 1990;48(6):1087-1100.
2. Blau JJ. Ephedrine nephrolithiasis associated with chronic ephedrine abuse. J Urol 1998;160:825.
3. Breum L, Pedersen JK, Ahlstrøm F, Frimodt-Møller J. Comparison of an ephedrine/caffeine combination
and dexfenfluramine in the treatment of obesity. A double-blind multi-centre trial in general practice. Int J
Obesity 1994;18:99-103.
4. Cupps MJ. Herbal remedies: adverse effects and drug interactions. Am Fam Physician 1999;59(5):1239-
1244.
5. Dalton S. Overweight and weight management: the health professional’s guide to understanding and
practice. Gaithersburg: Aspen Publishers, Inc., 1997.
6. Daly PA, Krieger DR, Dulloo AG, Young JB, Landsberg L. Ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin: safety and
efficacy for treatment of human obesity. Int J Obesity 1993;17(Suppl. 1):S73-S78.
7. Emmanuel NP, Jones C, Lydiard, RB. Use of herbal products and symptoms of bipolar disorder. Am J
Psychiatry 1998;155(11):1627.
8. Gurley BJ, Gardner SF, White LM, Wang P-L. Ephedrine pharmokinetics after ingestion of natural
supplements containing Ephedra sinica (ma huang). Ther Drug Monit 1998;20:439-445.
9. Jacobs KM, Hirsch KA. Psychiatric complications of ma-huang. Psychosomatics 2000;41(1):58-62.
10. Mazess RB, Barden HS, Bisek JP, Hanson J. Dual-energy x-ray absortiometry for total-body and regional
bone mineral and soft-tissue composition. Am J Clin Nutr 1990;51:1106-1112.
11. Pasquali R, Baraldi G, Cesari MP, Melchionda N, Zamboni M, Stefanini C, Raitano A. A controlled trial
using ephedrine in treatment of obesity. Int J Obesity 1985;9:93-98.
12. Pierson RN, Wang J, Heymsfield SB, Russell-Aulet M, Mazariegos M, Tierney M, Smith R, Thornton JC,
Kehayias J, Weber DA, Dilmanian. Measuring body fat: calibrating the rulers. Intermethod comparisons in
389 normal Caucasian subjects. Am J Physiol 1991;261:E103-E108.
Weight Loss Supplement For Obese Adults 35
13. Ramsey JJ, Colman RJ, Swick AG, Kemnitz JW. Energy expenditure, body composition, and glucose
metabolism in lean and obese rhesus monkeys treated with ephedrine and caffeine. Am J Clin Nutr
1998;68:42-51.
14. Shannon JR, Gottesdiener K, Jordan J, Chen K, Flattery S, Larson PJ, Candelore MR, Gertz B, Robertson
D, Sun M. Acute effect of ephedrine on 24-h energy balance. Clin Sci 1999;96:483-491.
15. Spraul M, Ravussin E, Fontvieille AM, Rising R, Larson DE, Anderson EA. Reduced sympathetic nervous
system activity. A potential mechanism predisposing to body weight gain. J Clin Invest 1993; 92 (4):1730-
1735.
16. Toubro S, Astrup A, Breum L, Quaade F. Safety and efficacy of long-term treatment with ephedrine,
caffeine and an ephedrine/caffeine mixture. Int J Obesity 1993;17(Suppl. 1):S69-S72.
17. Vincent WJ. Statistics in Kinesiology, 2nd ed. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics, 1999.
Address for correspondence: Dr. W. Jeffrey Armstrong, Department of HPERD, Eastern Michigan
University, Ypsilanti, MI 48197. E-mail: [email protected].
Darkside, what in the hell are you trying to prove here? Your the only person on this thread who buys in to this bullshit in case you haven't noticed. The people who died of ephedra are completely dwarfed by even tylenol, are they gonna take that off the shelf? Were getting our freedoms stripped out from under us and all you can do is sit here and defend the very people who are doing it. Then your gonna say "What are ya gonna do?" Unbeleivable.
TheDarkSideNinja
New member
Watson....
I never said anything like that. The point im trying to get across for the 1,000,000th time is that 1. People need to do more research where the research is backed by science 2. Any idiot can post any bullshit opinions they might have on this board 3. Ephedra may or may not be a good idea. Instead of everybody trying to say this is good or this is bad or whatever why don't they look into long term effects anymore. Sure short term you may not see too many side effects but it does not rule out the fact of long term usage and i've yet to see a credible study that proves this. Until then i am skeptical about what i put into my body. Yea i'm not saying A.S. is a good idea just understand the side effects and what comes along with usage then make your damn decision. Too many peeps want a quick fix and truth is there's no such thing as a magic pill!!! Not to mention its not a bad idea to debate diff. supps. and drugs on this board since you can't be sure of the total effects of Ephedra if scientists haven't already. Sure you can theroize but that's your opinion. Also i am very much against what the govt. is doing to people's rights i wasn't born yesterday!!! You seem to have similar views about the govt. just like me but what do u do about it....i vote!!! Do u??? That's the only way to change this kurrupt system although the candidates are shit to begin with. If u cared so much about your rights you would start your own group for peeps with simliar interests like those damn liberal protestors. I.M.O they should be thrown out of our country for lack of patronism!!! America...Love it or leave it!!! And by the way i am a Libertarian i.e. i want the govt. to stay the fuck out my biz!!! ~JT~
I never said anything like that. The point im trying to get across for the 1,000,000th time is that 1. People need to do more research where the research is backed by science 2. Any idiot can post any bullshit opinions they might have on this board 3. Ephedra may or may not be a good idea. Instead of everybody trying to say this is good or this is bad or whatever why don't they look into long term effects anymore. Sure short term you may not see too many side effects but it does not rule out the fact of long term usage and i've yet to see a credible study that proves this. Until then i am skeptical about what i put into my body. Yea i'm not saying A.S. is a good idea just understand the side effects and what comes along with usage then make your damn decision. Too many peeps want a quick fix and truth is there's no such thing as a magic pill!!! Not to mention its not a bad idea to debate diff. supps. and drugs on this board since you can't be sure of the total effects of Ephedra if scientists haven't already. Sure you can theroize but that's your opinion. Also i am very much against what the govt. is doing to people's rights i wasn't born yesterday!!! You seem to have similar views about the govt. just like me but what do u do about it....i vote!!! Do u??? That's the only way to change this kurrupt system although the candidates are shit to begin with. If u cared so much about your rights you would start your own group for peeps with simliar interests like those damn liberal protestors. I.M.O they should be thrown out of our country for lack of patronism!!! America...Love it or leave it!!! And by the way i am a Libertarian i.e. i want the govt. to stay the fuck out my biz!!! ~JT~
Themachine01
New member
to hell with all that xenedrine, hydroxy, ripped fuel, etc.... make your own.
Optimus B said:
I agree 100%. I have taken a ton of it over the years. Never any problem.
S
satchboogie
Guest
for all the dumbfucks who think efedrine is THAT bad for you...
lick nuts!
lick nuts!
TheDarkSideNinja
New member
Hey Satch...
Why don't u lick my nuttzz....as a matter of fact why don't u suck my cock since your name makes u sound like your good at it. Do u even have any idea what the hell you are talking about. I thought so. You walk around trying to seem like u know it all. Well first off we are not talking about Efedrine we are talking about Ephdra 2 diff compunds biatch. 2nd i have a few things to add about Ephedra faggot. Over 80 people's deaths were linked to Ephedra usage which is the reason the FDA is attempting to ban the shit. You think just because something is out on the market u can treat it like candy. Boy u better wake the fuck up and snap outta that dream. When we look at the regulation of supplements by law the manufacturer is responsible for making the product safe. They can really give a shit about people's health as long as they are making a profit and nothing is documented by the companies so they can't be sued...thus they don't give a shit. Every supplement must have a "disclaimer" statement on it of some kind and Ephedra did not meet that guideline which is another reason it is being looked at. When you look at the cost/benefit of this product i def. can't see more benefits than possible probs. I.M.O you can make nearly the same gains from accepting the proper diet and not being lazy like many who use the excuse they need the shit. Hell with this why am i even trying to get anything across to you since you are just one-sided and prolly won't even take a second to look into it. Just like Andro which was on the market i mean "wtf" it's prolly doin more damage to your body then injectables since it is a 1 step precursor to steroids and people are eating that like candy. Wow it just amazes me. You can make soooo much more gains from injectables but yet people are using that shitty supplement which is degenerating their liver's and kidney's!!! ~JT~
Why don't u lick my nuttzz....as a matter of fact why don't u suck my cock since your name makes u sound like your good at it. Do u even have any idea what the hell you are talking about. I thought so. You walk around trying to seem like u know it all. Well first off we are not talking about Efedrine we are talking about Ephdra 2 diff compunds biatch. 2nd i have a few things to add about Ephedra faggot. Over 80 people's deaths were linked to Ephedra usage which is the reason the FDA is attempting to ban the shit. You think just because something is out on the market u can treat it like candy. Boy u better wake the fuck up and snap outta that dream. When we look at the regulation of supplements by law the manufacturer is responsible for making the product safe. They can really give a shit about people's health as long as they are making a profit and nothing is documented by the companies so they can't be sued...thus they don't give a shit. Every supplement must have a "disclaimer" statement on it of some kind and Ephedra did not meet that guideline which is another reason it is being looked at. When you look at the cost/benefit of this product i def. can't see more benefits than possible probs. I.M.O you can make nearly the same gains from accepting the proper diet and not being lazy like many who use the excuse they need the shit. Hell with this why am i even trying to get anything across to you since you are just one-sided and prolly won't even take a second to look into it. Just like Andro which was on the market i mean "wtf" it's prolly doin more damage to your body then injectables since it is a 1 step precursor to steroids and people are eating that like candy. Wow it just amazes me. You can make soooo much more gains from injectables but yet people are using that shitty supplement which is degenerating their liver's and kidney's!!! ~JT~
muscle_geek
New member
I will vouch that it certainly can be dangerous and needs to be used with caution, which I did not do last night. I had to go to the emergency room because I thought I was having a heart attack. I took three yellow jackets from a local store and then worked out intensely. I worked back and did a lot of deadlifts. I was getting light headed doing deads, but I finished my workout. I was driving home from the gym and I felt intense cramps in my left pec. It didn't hurt, but it was freaky. Then I felt like my left hand ws numb, then my right arm went numb. That's when I decided to go to the hospital. I was panicked. The triaged me and my BP was 170 over 79. They took my in to do an EKG, X-Rays, Urinalysis, and blood work. My EKG was normal, they found bronchitis in my lungs (could have contributed). I started to feel better about an hour later and my BP went back to normal for me. 138 over 80. Bottom line, is that it was some scary shit. I've taken that much ephedra in the past without these type problems. It was clear that my heart was forced to work extra hard and that's not good. My conclusion is to not take more than the recommended dosage of ephedra, and to be extra careful when you are going to do workouts of squats or deadlifts which require so much energy.
S
satchboogie
Guest
damn... such animosity.
YOU certainly dont need it as you seem very hyper to begin with.
now, just because your girlfriend dumped you cause you abused efedrine doesnt mean that everybody gets the same treatments from their partners.
loosen up a little.. its only a chat board.
ciao amigo.
YOU certainly dont need it as you seem very hyper to begin with.
now, just because your girlfriend dumped you cause you abused efedrine doesnt mean that everybody gets the same treatments from their partners.
loosen up a little.. its only a chat board.
ciao amigo.
TheDarkSideNinja
New member
Satch...
Your right i do flip off the handle. I've been aggressive since birth. Ever since the doctor slapped my ass when i came outta my mom i've been homophobic... lol Anyways i'm not trying to cause any trouble or be a dick but any type of drugs and some supplements should really be taken with care. When peole abuse them they get a real shitty name from the media. I realize this is a discussion board and the peeps here are great and the last thing i would like to see is the death of an E.F. member from abusing any A.S. or Supps for that matter. We are all here for the same reasons right? Learn and teach in the interest of what is best for the crew. Sorry if that last post was a lil flippity but i was just trying to get a point across. No hard feelings. Peace ~JT~
Your right i do flip off the handle. I've been aggressive since birth. Ever since the doctor slapped my ass when i came outta my mom i've been homophobic... lol Anyways i'm not trying to cause any trouble or be a dick but any type of drugs and some supplements should really be taken with care. When peole abuse them they get a real shitty name from the media. I realize this is a discussion board and the peeps here are great and the last thing i would like to see is the death of an E.F. member from abusing any A.S. or Supps for that matter. We are all here for the same reasons right? Learn and teach in the interest of what is best for the crew. Sorry if that last post was a lil flippity but i was just trying to get a point across. No hard feelings. Peace ~JT~
