elevated liver values, what do you suggest?

[theslime]

Hey guys,

Im currently prepping for a show and Im ten weeks out but only on test and eq, no orals or tren yet. Got my blood test results today and my alt levels are elevated at 70 (should be below 40) and my ast are at 39 (should be below 38). My doctor got worried and said I should forget about my show, which is very discouraging to me. What do you think?

 

[enacer420nj]

I think your healt isnt worth risking for a show personally...Test and EQ are mild on the liver what are your dosages? I surely wouldnt add orals or tren if your having liver issues...

 

[Varga]

Do you ave any clue why those liver values are elevated at all?
Have you been drinking, or have done anything else besides the test/eq to cause that elevation because test/eq should not affect your liver that much

 

[theslime]

Do you ave any clue why those liver values are elevated at all?
Have you been drinking, or have done anything else besides the test/eq to cause that elevation because test/eq should not affect your liver that much

I have used nsaids in the past months, although none in the past two weeks. I was also on tramadol (pain killer) at the time of the test. Doctor said there was a chance that particular pain killer might have caused the elevation so I stopped taking it even if it pisses me off because tramadol is not associated with liver issues to the same degree as tylenol at all. I have another test schedule in 3 months which should show if it improved, at that point ill be 4 weeks past my competition. I just really want to do it in the meantime.

 

[Big_BK]

Increase your water intake and maybe try some milk thistle.

 

[Tatyana]

I have used nsaids in the past months, although none in the past two weeks. I was also on tramadol (pain killer) at the time of the test. Doctor said there was a chance that particular pain killer might have caused the elevation so I stopped taking it even if it pisses me off because tramadol is not associated with liver issues to the same degree as tylenol at all. I have another test schedule in 3 months which should show if it improved, at that point ill be 4 weeks past my competition. I just really want to do it in the meantime.

It seems that a lot of you lads are being very good and getting bloodwork done, however this is the problem.

Slightly elevated amino acid transaminases (AST, GGT, ALT) is not a big deal unless they are 4-5 x the top of the reference range, or if it persists for a long time.

These enzymes elevate at the drop of a hat, any alcohol, any drugs (nsaids as mentioned), coffee, even eating can have them be elevated.

Honestly at least 25% of the GP work shows an elevated ALT.

Someone is bringing me in a paper with regards to this, I did do a quick search for it on Clinical Chemistry website, but couldn't find it.

I think that some of you also need to be reminded that you are not a typical member of the population.

I don't like to speak badly of doctors, however, most of them get very little training in pathology, and most of the labs make it easy for them by flagging up things that are slightly high.

Interpreting these results takes a bit more than that, you have to put EVERYTHING together, CBC,clotting,all the enzymes, total protein, albumin, to mention a few, including the clinical presentation, if any.

 

[FunFun]

Here's an interesting read on AST/ALT.

Liver Enzymes

 

[theslime]

It seems that a lot of you lads are being very good and getting bloodwork done, however this is the problem.

Slightly elevated amino acid transaminases (AST, GGT, ALT) is not a big deal unless they are 4-5 x the top of the reference range, or if it persists for a long time.

These enzymes elevate at the drop of a hat, any alcohol, any drugs (nsaids as mentioned), coffee, even eating can have them be elevated.

Honestly at least 25% of the GP work shows an elevated ALT.

Someone is bringing me in a paper with regards to this, I did do a quick search for it on Clinical Chemistry website, but couldn't find it.

I think that some of you also need to be reminded that you are not a typical member of the population.

I don't like to speak badly of doctors, however, most of them get very little training in pathology, and most of the labs make it easy for them by flagging up things that are slightly high.

Interpreting these results takes a bit more than that, you have to put EVERYTHING together, CBC,clotting,all the enzymes, total protein, albumin, to mention a few, including the clinical presentation, if any.

Thanks for the response, it clears things up a bit more for me.

 

[ALIN]

Hey guys,

Im currently prepping for a show and Im ten weeks out but only on test and eq, no orals or tren yet. Got my blood test results today and my alt levels are elevated at 70 (should be below 40) and my ast are at 39 (should be below 38). My doctor got worried and said I should forget about my show, which is very discouraging to me. What do you think?

GET some SYNTHERGINE

 

[Varga]

I have used nsaids in the past months, although none in the past two weeks. I was also on tramadol (pain killer) at the time of the test. Doctor said there was a chance that particular pain killer might have caused the elevation so I stopped taking it even if it pisses me off because tramadol is not associated with liver issues to the same degree as tylenol at all. I have another test schedule in 3 months which should show if it improved, at that point ill be 4 weeks past my competition. I just really want to do it in the meantime.

I think you ok bro, use something for liver protection as a precaution and avoid orals if you can for this competition or just take them for a very short run. Do your show and then get tested again and re-evaluate.
I'm not saying this is the best choice however, if let's say you were on orals right now the liver value would be high anyway. I think that you need to be off everything to see what is causing this elevation.
Just my take

 

[nzrodney]

Agree with Tat. GPs get a bit paranoid about slighty high levels in the liver kidney & prostate. Fortunately my doctors know what I do & we can take the chems I'm using into account when looking at profiles.

 

[Advisor_x]

My best advice because I used them and I had medical supervision use SamE and B complex........I had hepatitis and the Dr used this new approach to treating it......my liver values were off the roof................

 

[zeplin7464]

im on a deca cycle for 5 weeks and just got my enzymes checked and my ast is 38, alittle high, and my alt is 53, also elevated. i do take alot of prescription meds though which can def be causing the elevation since deca isnt very liver toxic. i will be adding winni 10mg/day for 6 weeks soon, so i hope they dnt go through the roof. as it was said earlier in the post i was also told by a hormone replacement thereapist that it would only be of real concern if like stated earlier they were 3-4x higher than the highest normal rate

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

Essentiale Forte from Aventis (aka Compound N) is a good OTC supplement, and actually has been studied in steroid using athletes.

 

[LoneTree]

It seems that a lot of you lads are being very good and getting bloodwork done, however this is the problem.

Slightly elevated amino acid transaminases (AST, GGT, ALT) is not a big deal unless they are 4-5 x the top of the reference range, or if it persists for a long time.

These enzymes elevate at the drop of a hat, any alcohol, any drugs (nsaids as mentioned), coffee, even eating can have them be elevated.

Honestly at least 25% of the GP work shows an elevated ALT.

Someone is bringing me in a paper with regards to this, I did do a quick search for it on Clinical Chemistry website, but couldn't find it.

I think that some of you also need to be reminded that you are not a typical member of the population.

I don't like to speak badly of doctors, however, most of them get very little training in pathology, and most of the labs make it easy for them by flagging up things that are slightly high.

Interpreting these results takes a bit more than that, you have to put EVERYTHING together, CBC,clotting,all the enzymes, total protein, albumin, to mention a few, including the clinical presentation, if any.

British doctors do too few lab tests, American doctors do too many lab tests.
In Britain, government tries to control health care cost through GPs, who are discouraged from ordering too many tests, prescribe too many drugs, or refer too many patients to specialists. If a British GP orders a lab test, there is REALLY something wrong with the patient.
In America, it is the other way round. Because of all the litigations, doctors order too many tests, to protect their behinds. They order a test first, and talk to the patient later.

ALT is the most specific liver enzyme. 4-5 times high ALT would be required to diagnose acute hepatitis. High ALT (say 10 points or more high) would be a cause of concern. It indicates liver damage (although mild), until proven otherwise. If the cause of mild liver damage is not removed, it is only going to get worse, and ALT will keep on rising. As long as toxins are entering liver cells, they will keep on damaging it. You have to stop the toxins to prevent further liver damage.

Kidney damage can, and does, happen with NSAIDs, but liver damage in a normal healthy person is extremely rare. Tyelenol/paracetamol/acetaminophen if used for a few weeks in normal doses in normal healthy people very rarely causes liver damage. It is one of the most commonly used medicines in the world.

My point is that you can't ignore any indication that your health may be in jeopardy. You can't bury your head in the sand. No competition is more important than your health and well being. People usually think that shit only happens to other people. It can happen to anybody and no one is exempt.

 

[Tatyana]

British doctors do too few lab tests, American doctors do too many lab tests.
In Britain, government tries to control health care cost through GPs, who are discouraged from ordering too many tests, prescribe too many drugs, or refer too many patients to specialists. If a British GP orders a lab test, there is REALLY something wrong with the patient.
In America, it is the other way round. Because of all the litigations, doctors order too many tests, to protect their behinds. They order a test first, and talk to the patient later.

ALT is the most specific liver enzyme. 4-5 times high ALT would be required to diagnose acute hepatitis. High ALT (say 10 points or more high) would be a cause of concern. It indicates liver damage (although mild), until proven otherwise. If the cause of mild liver damage is not removed, it is only going to get worse, and ALT will keep on rising. As long as toxins are entering liver cells, they will keep on damaging it. You have to stop the toxins to prevent further liver damage.

Kidney damage can, and does, happen with NSAIDs, but liver damage in a normal healthy person is extremely rare. Tyelenol/paracetamol/acetaminophen if used for a few weeks in normal doses in normal healthy people very rarely causes liver damage. It is one of the most commonly used medicines in the world.

My point is that you can't ignore any indication that your health may be in jeopardy. You can't bury your head in the sand. No competition is more important than your health and well being. People usually think that shit only happens to other people. It can happen to anybody and no one is exempt.

The GPs would take a 'wait and see' approach, and re-test in three months.

There are so many variables that could elevated liver function, and in addition, the 'normal' ranges only include 95% of the population, and bodybuilders/athletes are also not 'normal' when it comes to the majority of the population.


Being tested again in a few months would be sensible.

 

[Big_BK]

Also, not sure if this is correct but i have been told by quite a few people that if you train heavy and hard your liver values get slightly raised. Just a few points and nothing to worry about like tat said unless you are well over.

 

[van_wilder]

Also, not sure if this is correct but i have been told by quite a few people that if you train heavy and hard your liver values get slightly raised. Just a few points and nothing to worry about like tat said unless you are well over.

My liver values came back elevated - my GP freaked out.... took it to my sport physician and he laughed - asked if my GP ever treated anyone that trained hard if at all... I believe you are correct. He then ordered up a full blood test and everything came back fine despite the slightly elevated liver enzymes.

Tatyana is bang on - smart girl!!!! Great posts!

We cannot be lumped in with the normal population... How many people that your GP sees do you think ever go to the gym, nevermind train daily with intensity!