EF's new policy regarding closed and deleted threads

[Juice Authority]

Quad's original thread on the board rules are fairly self-explanatory however what is not self-explanatory is EF's new policy regarding closed and deleted threads. These would be threads where people are posting info or asking for feedback on products that are similar to the products offered by EF's sponsors.

What is the new policy regarding this? I can understand why these threads would deleted or closed. EF's sponsors pay to advertise here and it would be unfair to them if people were to direct business to another vendor especially if that other vendor doesn't pay to advertise here. If I were the sponsor I would wonder why I'm paying to advertise here.

I think it would helpful if one of the Mods were to post a thread that clearly explains the new policy about what can and cannot be posted here since it has changed over the last year and seems to be a moving target. That way people don't have to start new threads asking why their original post was deleted or their thread was closed.

The above is just one example that stands out. I know I have had threads deleted or closed for other reasons. For example, I posted this particular thread yesterday that was closed? I can't figure it out for the life of me why it was closed.

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=291218

I think what I'm suggesting here makes sense. That way we will all have a clear understanding of what constitutes a violation of this new policy.

 

[psychedout]

I accept EF's reason for deleting threads about companies that don't sponsor the board to a degree. But here is my problem.

Take whey protien supplements for example. For the most part, you can easily find cheaper priced supplements elsewhere. If people post up links to these site with cheaper priced protein powders, it may force George to lower his prices accordingly to beat competition prices.

Now, if company X, and EF had the exact same price on a given product, I would gladly support EF over ANY competitor.

In the end I think George would make a lot more money from all the additional customers, and those who will be return customers.


Also JA, i'm not sure why your thread was closed either.

 

[jh1]

Don't forget PEOPLE pay to be part of this community to discuss, share and learn.... it is not just advertisers that pay.

To delete a thread that mentions a competitor to a paying adverstiser.... say Beyond a Century.... ... that is just rediculous. Unless it is obviously outright blatent adverstising....

 

[gunner44]

I think that being open and allowing for some competition is a good thing.

Hear that GEORGE? If you appear to be way to biased and overprotective of your "sponsor/advertisers", well, I suspect the majority of folks around here will see right through that kind of shit, and you will loose respect.

The fact that Nelson has suddenly dissapeared also doesnt bode well, on a lot of levels.

With all the mods hauling ass , Nelsons greatest act of dissapearing, and the real possibility thet the Feds have now made this their favorite hang out, well that really says it all.

 

[gunner44]

Real good point bro!

We Plat members PAY to f'n be here! SO that makes us part of the financial equation.

Maybe that will keep my last post from pulling a Nelson!! LOL

 

[macrophage69alpha]

no idea why it was closed. However perhaps the topic of why there are so many canadian UG labs is one that leads to sourcing. as they are mostly direct sources. so in some sense they are source posts in the same vain as *p.


but its a tricky area, and one where disposition of such posts and their handling may vary.

 

[psychedout]

Unless it is obviously outright blatent adverstising....

I agree, unless its outright blatent adverstising, there is no need to delete threads.

 

[Fragadelic]

The fact that Nelson has suddenly dissapeared also doesnt bode well, on a lot of levels.

I was under the impression that Nelson left because someone was fucking with his posts

 

[Mavy]

gymmyster summed it up perfectly yesterday on Nucmans thread, but it is gone now. I too would like to see a list of the rules about posting now, but it just wont happen. It would look to terrible written down and would cause to much of a rucus.

George may have whored elitefitness out to sponsering, and took away the "freedom" portion where you can openely discuss different prods and the quality differences between, which would be fine, and we would have nothing to say as this is his board, BUT .... there are platinum paying members here who want the truth on prods, not a biased answer due to sponswering. I could see sponswering like many other boards do, but they dont pay for platinum membership there like we do. Do we really have to get milked by paying platinum and being limited to discuss sponser prods only? Sometimes I really wonder why I pay for platinum. I rarely use the search anymore, the greatest thing for me about going platinum is being able to have the quick reply below threads. haahaha

I know that this is a touchy subject with the mods, and in a lot of cases they probably agree with this issue. But we have to realise that they are doing there job, this is George, and Elite's rules not theirs. Do you really think that they want to be deleting everyones threads and pissing people off all the time? I really dont. This is not a Mod thing, its a board thing.

I would like to have Nucman's thread re-instated just to have George reply back to gymmiester's thread. If I could ask for 1 thing it would be that. His post summed it up perfectly. Like it was mentioned earlier, Elitefitness has become very "political".

JA, I dont really know why that thread was locked I was trying to figure that one out myself, especially since I have seen it asked 100 times before. I actually had a pretty funny reply to that so i was a little pissed, as I have been a lot lately with some things going on around here.

Mavy

 

[Juice Authority]

Well, I would hope that this thread is allowed to stay so we can get some clear direction on this. I tried to state my case as "politically" and diplomatically as possible with the hope that we can hear and discuss both sides of the issue.

 

[George Spellwin]

Bro's,

Please accept my apologies. It appears to me that the mods deleted this thread in error. I will speak with them about this.

The mods are to follow the policy that has been in place since the beginning of the site. Specifically, discussion of supplement brands is fine. If however the discussion turns into advertising, then the advertiser needs to become a paying sponsor of the site.

If you feel that something was deleted in error, I want to be the first to know about it. Please send us an email with the name of the thread and the URL if you have it and I can personally investigate like I did here.

I think our mods in general do a great job, but we all make mistakes.

 

[LeanforLife]

Oh well that explains it all. All the deleting of threads was done by accident/error.

I think George needs to understand this is not an isolated incident, if you indeed actually doesn't, which I find rather surprising.

The best point made is about the people paying to use this site versus the paying sponsors. I do not pay for this site or any other site. But why would I pay a monthly fee so someone can tell me what I am allowed to read of my fellow BBer's opinions. I didn't think EF was like CNN or Fox News.

 

[George Spellwin]

LeanforLife,

I appreciate your comments. Yes, I realize that this is not an isolated incident. And I have recently installed new software that logs each post that gets deleted. It lets me know who deleted what and when it was deleted.

Again, I appreciate your concern.

 

[Ulter]

For obvious reasons I don't want to see the products of my competitors on this board. I have said before I have been here for years as a member and I was a member for nearly two year before the AF Store opened. I spend a lot of time answering the 16,000 emails I get every year. Emails about our products, cycling, "do you know if this guy is good", "can you test this for me?", “I got a customs letter, now what?” and on and on. My point is that I don't just come here and TAKE. I come here and contribute every single day of the year and have for 4 years.
Let's talk Glucorell R for a minute.
We spend on advertising here that most of you never see because you're Platinum and we accept that. But what we don't accept is buying banners no one sees and then having our competitors advertise for free by having their friends spam the board with phony questions about their products or "hey I found a better deal at..." posts.
There is a reason you'll see a product sold a couple dollars less than ours however, there are extras that our competitors don't spend on. We spend extra to use an FDA approved facility to do our manufacture. We spend extra on product insurance. We spend extra on free upgrades on shipping during the summer months and holidays. We spend extra to buy the highest grade material possible, unlike competitors who buy agricultural grade. We spend extra on independent testing of our materials to insure the purity. We take credit cards, have a toll free number to call if you have questions, we have a money back guarantee on all products, we have the hottest looking customer service girls (ok so that’s a plus around the office, but still…).
And the worst part for us is that the people who use the agricultural grade product that some dickhead posts here is a better deal, don’t like the results they get, and tell people that Glucorell R doesn’t work because they tried something just like it and didn’t do anything for them. AAHHRRRGGGG!!!

As far as deleted posts, like George says, they are not deleted, but rather put into a recycle bin. He can take them out and restore them if a mod makes a mistake so ask him if you think yours was deleted and shouldn’t have been.

 

[DocHoliday]

I can see Ulters point about this. We all have seen those bogus advertising posts about such & such product @ such & such site. BUT

I also think as members we should be able to get feedback on products and issues, which is basically what a board is all about.

Again the bottom line on moving threads is the Mods do their best to moderate what is allowed and what isn't. Sometimes we agree with the mod making the move and sometimes we dont.

 

[humanoid]

I agree that paying sponsors have a right to promote their products, and free advertising should not be tolerated. However, we need to be careful when trying to distinguish what is free advertising. Even some of the blatant free advertising posts could be viewed as an opportunity for sponsors - it's your chance to show the distinctions that make your product superior. I also pay to be here, and I want this to be an open forum where I can discuss any product. Without that right, this forum becomes very biased and loses value.

 

[jh1]

Don't forget PEOPLE pay to be part of this community to discuss, share and learn.... it is not just advertisers that pay.

To delete a thread that mentions a competitor to a paying adverstiser.... say Beyond a Century.... ... that is just rediculous. Unless it is obviously outright blatent adverstising....

Uh... Real Nice... and VERY ironic. Someone edited my post to take out a reference to a product that BAC and AF both sell... I was obviously making a point, not adverstising... which is the whole point of this thread.

Fucking Nazi...

 

[George Spellwin]

I agree that paying sponsors have a right to promote their products, and free advertising should not be tolerated. However, we need to be careful when trying to distinguish what is free advertising. Even some of the blatant free advertising posts could be viewed as an opportunity for sponsors - it's your chance to show the distinctions that make your product superior. I also pay to be here, and I want this to be an open forum where I can discuss any product. Without that right, this forum becomes very biased and loses value.

Very good point. Here's an example. You start your own fitness board. Say you call it www.CoolerThanEliteBoard.com. I welcome you to come here and introduce your site to our members. I even let members introduce sites here that think I am Lucifer the anti-Christ and make it known on their boards -- and that is ok too.

But if you come here day after day and bump a thread when our members are no longer interested, then this crosses a line and in my opinion becomes advertising that we should be compensated for.

 

[George Spellwin]

For obvious reasons I don't want to see the products of my competitors on this board. I have said before I have been here for years as a member and I was a member for nearly two year before the AF Store opened. I spend a lot of time answering the 16,000 emails I get every year. Emails about our products, cycling, "do you know if this guy is good", "can you test this for me?", “I got a customs letter, now what?” and on and on. My point is that I don't just come here and TAKE. I come here and contribute every single day of the year and have for 4 years.
Let's talk Glucorell R for a minute.
We spend on advertising here that most of you never see because you're Platinum and we accept that. But what we don't accept is buying banners no one sees and then having our competitors advertise for free by having their friends spam the board with phony questions about their products or "hey I found a better deal at..." posts.
There is a reason you'll see a product sold a couple dollars less than ours however, there are extras that our competitors don't spend on. We spend extra to use an FDA approved facility to do our manufacture. We spend extra on product insurance. We spend extra on free upgrades on shipping during the summer months and holidays. We spend extra to buy the highest grade material possible, unlike competitors who buy agricultural grade. We spend extra on independent testing of our materials to insure the purity. We take credit cards, have a toll free number to call if you have questions, we have a money back guarantee on all products, we have the hottest looking customer service girls (ok so that’s a plus around the office, but still…).
And the worst part for us is that the people who use the agricultural grade product that some dickhead posts here is a better deal, don’t like the results they get, and tell people that Glucorell R doesn’t work because they tried something just like it and didn’t do anything for them. AAHHRRRGGGG!!!

As far as deleted posts, like George says, they are not deleted, but rather put into a recycle bin. He can take them out and restore them if a mod makes a mistake so ask him if you think yours was deleted and shouldn’t have been.

This is a very important point -- in the world of supplements, the distinction in quality among brands is huge and I have heard nothing but rave reviews about AF.

 

[Dial_tone]

My only problem with the entire affair was that I made ONE single sentence to the effect of

"XYZ has a good price on r-ALA". That was it...the whole thing. Some heavy-handed mod decided that was too blatant of an advertisement. It was replaced with a single dot., by someone lacking the cajones to attach their name to it. I try to be pretty tolerant of the policies here but that just sent me over the edge.

 

[jh1]

My only problem with the entire affair was that I made ONE single sentence to the effect of

"XYZ has a good price on r-ALA". That was it...the whole thing. Some heavy-handed mod decided that was too blatant of an advertisement. It was replaced with a single dot., by someone lacking the cajones to attach their name to it. I try to be pretty tolerant of the policies here but that just sent me over the edge.

Exactly the point.... every mod knows that Dial_Tone is not here to advertise, they even know Dial_Tone is not going to inadvertently send somone to a Snake Oil dealer as opposed to the real thing... he has been in the game too long to fall for some hoax...

These posts aren't being deleted or modified in a 'Good Faith' effort to curb free advertising, or to protect the 'Innocents' from being led astray to scammers and sub-standard products.

That's Bullshit... they are being deleted to make sure people that visit EliteFitness are funnelled to one vendor without exception. Hey, I use the vendors that sponsor elitefitness myself - but to stop members of this board - even paying members - from sharing ideas is not a mean that is justified by the end.

I pay too. Pay for your adverstisments, and benefit from them... but don't delete posts simply because it conflicts with your interest...

 

[Slyder190]

The new day

The reality is that the new day of the boards is upon us. When many of the boards such as this one went up, it was all about info, sharing and learning. And while it still is, it was inevitable that advertising for products such as supplements, research companies, steroid books and so on follow, as this was the place where the target market hangs out. There needs to a fine line indicated as to what is simply being asked about and what is a cheap plug. There are numerous supplement companies and research chemical companies. Different ones sponsor different sites. And such companies should expect that their products be advertised and others mentioned as rarley as possible. The reality is though, it's going to happen. It's what these boards and communities are about. It gets out of hand though when you see books that claim to be the be-all end-all of steroid and training info, or books that promise to get you laid 365 days a year. This is a little ridiculous. No offense George. What has happened is what goes on in the world everyday. Somewhere along the line, it shifted from being about sharing, learning and helping, to simply being about money. And I'm not singling out this board. It's everywhere. Not to knock any one company, because I'm not, but again the reality is there are choices beyond ProteinFactory.com and Team L.I.F.E. And I think 99% of any other companies mentioned are for the purpose of obtaining general information, and not giving free plugs. These are just a few concepts we must explore and understand.

 

[jh1]

That sums it up perfectly...

 

[Nathan]

You guys all forgot to mention how these rules don't apply to me, and me alone. Thank you. I'm better than all of you. Write that down.

 

[Big BX]

have a toll free number to call if you have questions, we have a money back guarantee on all products, we have the hottest looking customer service girls (ok so that’s a plus around the office, but still…).

I spend a couple grand a year on your supplements and I think they are great.

Now with that said, I want to see a picture of those girls in customer service!

 

[Animal]

Closed and deleted threads, hell!

I just answer some questions and my answers are deleted for no reason.

I guess I'll go back and answer them for the third time.

BTW, I used to be idanimal.

 

[Dial_tone]

My question was answered to my satisfaction.

 

[George Spellwin]

My only problem with the entire affair was that I made ONE single sentence to the effect of

"XYZ has a good price on r-ALA". That was it...the whole thing. Some heavy-handed mod decided that was too blatant of an advertisement. It was replaced with a single dot., by someone lacking the cajones to attach their name to it. I try to be pretty tolerant of the policies here but that just sent me over the edge.

I hear what you are saying and I will deal with it. That would make me mad too.

 

[George Spellwin]

Re: The new day

The reality is that the new day of the boards is upon us. When many of the boards such as this one went up, it was all about info, sharing and learning. And while it still is, it was inevitable that advertising for products such as supplements, research companies, steroid books and so on follow, as this was the place where the target market hangs out. There needs to a fine line indicated as to what is simply being asked about and what is a cheap plug. There are numerous supplement companies and research chemical companies. Different ones sponsor different sites. And such companies should expect that their products be advertised and others mentioned as rarley as possible. The reality is though, it's going to happen. It's what these boards and communities are about. It gets out of hand though when you see books that claim to be the be-all end-all of steroid and training info, or books that promise to get you laid 365 days a year. This is a little ridiculous. No offense George. What has happened is what goes on in the world everyday. Somewhere along the line, it shifted from being about sharing, learning and helping, to simply being about money. And I'm not singling out this board. It's everywhere. Not to knock any one company, because I'm not, but again the reality is there are choices beyond ProteinFactory.com and Team L.I.F.E. And I think 99% of any other companies mentioned are for the purpose of obtaining general information, and not giving free plugs. These are just a few concepts we must explore and understand.

Great post, but I think my resurrecting this thread shows that I at least have the intent to be different.

In fact, have I not been very generous with the sites that hate elite coming here to post their announcements? I am going to work to make sure that our mods and advertisers follow this example. I hear what you are saying.

(and my book really can help you get laid )

 

[George Spellwin]

Closed and deleted threads, hell!

I just answer some questions and my answers are deleted for no reason.

I guess I'll go back and answer them for the third time.

BTW, I used to be idanimal.

Welcome back Animal.

Glad you're back. Email me if it happens again.

 

[RADAR]

For obvious reasons I don't want to see the products of my competitors on this board. I have said before I have been here for years as a member and I was a member for nearly two year before the AF Store opened. I spend a lot of time answering the 16,000 emails I get every year. Emails about our products, cycling, "do you know if this guy is good", "can you test this for me?", “I got a customs letter, now what?” and on and on. My point is that I don't just come here and TAKE. I come here and contribute every single day of the year and have for 4 years.
Let's talk Glucorell R for a minute.
We spend on advertising here that most of you never see because you're Platinum and we accept that. But what we don't accept is buying banners no one sees and then having our competitors advertise for free by having their friends spam the board with phony questions about their products or "hey I found a better deal at..." posts.
There is a reason you'll see a product sold a couple dollars less than ours however, there are extras that our competitors don't spend on. We spend extra to use an FDA approved facility to do our manufacture. We spend extra on product insurance. We spend extra on free upgrades on shipping during the summer months and holidays. We spend extra to buy the highest grade material possible, unlike competitors who buy agricultural grade. We spend extra on independent testing of our materials to insure the purity. We take credit cards, have a toll free number to call if you have questions, we have a money back guarantee on all products, we have the hottest looking customer service girls (ok so that’s a plus around the office, but still…).
And the worst part for us is that the people who use the agricultural grade product that some dickhead posts here is a better deal, don’t like the results they get, and tell people that Glucorell R doesn’t work because they tried something just like it and didn’t do anything for them. AAHHRRRGGGG!!!

As far as deleted posts, like George says, they are not deleted, but rather put into a recycle bin. He can take them out and restore them if a mod makes a mistake so ask him if you think yours was deleted and shouldn’t have been.

Very well said my man!!!

RADAR

 

[Animal]

Thanks for the welcome, GS.

And doesn't LIFE support the site or something?

If I remember correctly LIFE was even mentioned in one of the elitefitness bulk email sendings and I still have that email, too!

So for somebody to delete the thread when elitefitness was calling peoples attention to it is downright assinine and disrespectful to LIFE.

My comment was:

Everybody gets their r-ALA from the same place. It's not rocket science and if you know the background of most of this stuff like I do you would know it too and anybody who suggests there is something vastly different going on is lying to the public.

90% of all pharms come from China.

 

[George Spellwin]

Yes, www.teamliferesearch.com is a sponsor here too.

And you're right that all the pharms come from China, but that does not mean that a supplement company is necessarily telling the truth on their labels.

That's why I promoted so much independent testing back when I used to own MassQuantities.com

 

[TXM4DM4N]

Excuse me for stating the obvious, and yes I have zipped my asbestos suit so flame away...here is how I see it:

Ultimately this is GSpellwin's Board. It is his responsibility to manage it in a manner that he is comfortable with. It is his board to sell spots to sponsors if he chooses. He can make the rules about what is allowed. If you feel something has been wrongfully axed you can email him with details about the thread and he will look into it.

He recently installed software so he can manage what is deleted by whom and why. So I see nothing to debate. If you post something that keeps getting deleted then stop posting it. It doesnt matter if you like the rules you just have to follow them, because you aint the BOSS of this Bitchin Board...GEORGE IS

At least he has stated his willingness to investigate any allegations of thread deleting that is not appropriate. Not only that, but also installed safeguards to help him investigate. What more can you really expect?

flame away

 

[Juice Authority]

I think that being open and allowing for some competition is a good thing.

Hear that GEORGE? If you appear to be way to biased and overprotective of your "sponsor/advertisers", well, I suspect the majority of folks around here will see right through that kind of shit, and you will loose respect.

The fact that Nelson has suddenly dissapeared also doesnt bode well, on a lot of levels.

With all the mods hauling ass , Nelsons greatest act of dissapearing, and the real possibility thet the Feds have now made this their favorite hang out, well that really says it all.

That fact that George brought this thread back to life shows a willingness to listen to the issue(s) at hand. Let's not let this thread degrade into an attack on EF Mods or Admins. Nothing gets accomplished by doing that.

 

[Goldprospector]

I agree 100% with txstrongman's post! The bottom line is it is his business...his money maker....

If something starts negativly affecting my $$ then I am going to do what I can to straighten it out! So should GS.

If I don't like the rules...then I quit paying Platinum and quit coming here. If I feel I am being wronged, then I can send GS a mail...He has always answered my questions to my satisfaction.

 

[TXM4DM4N]

Originally posted by Goldprospector
I agree 100% with txstrongman's post! The bottom line is it is his business...If I don't like the rules...then I quit paying Platinum and quit coming here. If I feel I am being wronged, then I can send GS a mail...He has always answered my questions to my satisfaction.

word my man, especially to free members, if you dont like the rules, dont go away mad just go away, if you think the Feds are "hanging out", then go away far *besafe*. Who clicks the mouse and hits EF? I doubt George has hijacked your browser, dont like it?? dont come!!

Bad mouthing EF is not going to make you welcome here. It is so trendy to bad mouth EF, go somewhere else and do it! Oh, you were forced here against your will?

EF ROX


*still wearing asbestos flame proof suit so fire away*

 

[LeanforLife]

This is a very important point -- in the world of supplements, the distinction in quality among brands is huge and I have heard nothing but rave reviews about AF.

Because if there were not positive they don't last on the board very long.

 

[Animal]

Well then, I think we need a policy on mods being involved in name calling and insults. It's ridiculous.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Well then, I think we need a policy on mods being involved in name calling and insults. It's ridiculous.

whining...

from the SITE NAZI.

animal get over yourself.

 

[Animal]

Hey George,

I really like how Mods are permitted to insult and assult the integrity of a sponsor with no evidence. Mods can spew disinformation of a paid sponsor. I bet that will help get new sponsors and advertisers real fast.

I have something in the works, but I won't be putting my money into a site with shit like this going on.

Maybe macro and ulter can call me an idiot boy a few more times and tell me what to do and that will help clear everything up?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

no one assaulted any sponsors integrity. Just yours and your not as sponsor by your own admission.

btw- if short quips in response to your underserved condescention are too hurtful will be sure to refrain

 

[Animal]

Well, here is YOUR comment and Ulters will follow. I can see why you wanted this deleted after what you said about a paying sponsor. In my being a sponsor has what to do with what? Hmmm.

All can see below that you are privy to what Life does or doesn't do, right?

'macrophage69alpha

Elite Moderator


Registered: Jan 2000
Location: San diego, CA
Posts: 7981
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(post #3)

no clue as to quality.

they do not test the material or caps so they have no clue either.'