Dual Factor Training Question

[ziggyziggy]

In regards to the 5x5 there really are only 2 weeks of heavy loading. You can try experimenting some. Even something like running the volume phase for 4 weeks, using the 2x deload for 1-2 weeks, another 2-3 weeks of volume, 2x deload, and then an intensity phase or some combination. Something useful - providing the exercises aren't changing too much, would be to calculate weekly loads for working sets and see how they ladder. I was thumbing through Bompa's periodization book at Barnes and Noble the other day. Might be worth looking through for someone more interested in this.

I just bought that book last week, and it is definately chock full of excellent information. It will literally walk you through the theory of periodization to actually putting together a program. Can't recommend it enough.

I'm planning to start a 5 X 5 program after a conditioning period for my lower body once I get this cast off.

Zig

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I think I'm going to try an abbreviated volume phase, using two weeks of the 'real loading', and see what I come out with. I dunno, it might not be enough "overreaching" to cause a rebound effect.

 

[blut wump]

I think I'm going to try an abbreviated volume phase, using two weeks of the 'real loading', and see what I come out with. I dunno, it might not be enough "overreaching" to cause a rebound effect.

I suspect that you'll likely encounter a problem of conditioning.

One of the downsides of standard periodization is that you are in one of three stages: loading; deloading; intensity. You can't jump into the deep end of either loading or intensity without some lead-in. It'll be interesting to see how you get on but I reckon that aiming for less than three weeks with the first one being to acclimatize you to the volume will inhibit your ability to load.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

It may, but don't more advanced programs focus on actual loading for shorter periods? I thought the first two weeks in this 5x5 variation were more to let people adjust to the training, and the 3/4 'record weeks' were the key to the loading phase.

 

[blut wump]

The first two weeks are a slide-in but I've not seen any that take the loading phase lower than three weeks. The madcow 5x5 is (easy, medium, hard, harder) and a more advanced one would be (medium, hard, harder). I'm just not sure that someone can jump straight into (hard, harder) without doing reasonably high volume work already, effectively giving an earlier period of loading and slide-in. There's also that 3:1 fatigue-fitness ratio to factor into any periodization program.

That was one of the criticisms of periodization which led to the development of conjugate training, such as Westside. Your body is in one of the three states of loading/deloading/intensity. The conjugate training tries to juggle all three with some GPP thrown in for good measure. At least, that's how I interpret it.

It'd be a good experiment to run and you'd probably know in week1 whether you'd be able to be hitting or exceeding relevant max lifts for the high volume without straining something. It might be reasonable to run a sequence of load/deload/reload of 3/1/2 followed by a slide into intensity. Interesting.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

There's also that 3:1 fatigue-fitness ratio to factor into any periodization program.

I'm not familiar with this. Care to explain?

 

[blut wump]

Easiest if I throw a link at you:
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/PlannedOvertraining.html

You might have read it already. It came up in the main 5x5 thread since someone had written an article and used the madcow 5x5 as his sample program. It's a very clear exposition of the why and how dual-factor works.

 

[Madcow2]

You can do it but generally you can't do it at the beginning of a totally new training cycle - meaning you aren't just going to step in and start pounding at your best. You could create a laddered series of mesocycles where gradually the loading time is decreased until you hit 2-3 weeks. 4L / 2UL / 3L / 1UL / 2L / 1UL might be interesting for you to try. Calculate your weekly load and make sure it is ladding upward as you go with the best week of the last phase better than the previous loading phase's final week. See how you handle it with 3 weeks first and make absolutely sure you are using the 2x per week deload protocol. If you are making good strength gains in a valid hypertrophy range I wouldn't screw with it too much. Also, you might find yourself burning out on something like this so if performance starts to drop, something has to change pretty fast. There is also the ability to remove the pyramids in favor of another 5x5 day for all lifts. Just some random thoughts that may or may not appeal to you.