dosage for androstenediol?

[Spidey]

Hi all.

I bought some Andro-poppers (Pinnacle) that claim to raise testosterone levels 98%. I think this is probably bogus but, being a scientist, I am going to actually test their claim. A friend and I are going to measure our serum testosterone levels (using the ELISA protocol) before and 40 minutes after taking these things and I'll let you know what we find.

NOTE: The fact that I doubt their claims does not in any way color this experiment. ELISA measurements use testosterone antibodies to detect and quantitate testosterone extremely accurately. Either the levels will be elevated after taking the poppers or they won't. It's as simple as that.

Pinnacle claims that testosterone levels rise in a gaussian looking curve and peak at 40 minutes. After about 3 hours, testosterone levels are back to normal. Assuming their claims are true, should I be taking them every 3 hours to keep my testosterone levels up or is once a day (30 minutes before workout) sufficient?

-James

 

[the urge]

they may raise test but not enough for a true anabolic effect(maby in super high doses), but you still get some of the sides-what a product. Listen, I was one of those people who wanted to believe that they would make a small difference when I first started working out and tried Pat Arnolds products back in the day-intranasaly. They may do a little somthing in high doses, but if your going to take high doses listen to everyone and do a reasonable dose of the real thing. you'll probbably have less sides than killing the andro, and you will cartainly have better gains-avoid a foolish step!---p.s. i would love to hear how your test come out

 

[Canuck4]

Raise testosterone levels by 98%?
What am I doing taking Test?

 

[RussianBro]

Ha, ha, ha........
that is funny shit... pro-hormones..... or sad shit?

 

[NFG123]

dude,

if you work in a lab and are going to use ELISA to test for testosterone metabolites, you are a fool ... especially bc of the COST of that procedure. Dude, goddamn antibodies ARE NOT CHEAP ... the plates and reagents as well.

Better off using an enema

NFG

 

[NFG123]

i forgot the cost of the SECONDARY antibodies .... what are you using goat anti mouse IgG?

What is this coupled to HRP? Some other freaky tag?

this experiment is a waste of time and money. at least you will see the true worthlessness of "prosteroids" at worst you will get in REAL trouble for fucking around with lab materials ....

be warned,

NFG

 

[NFG123]

i just looked up the best antibodies in the business .... upstate.

ok .. there are NO anti testosteorne mAb pAb ....

its a small liophilic molecule. antibodies cannot be generated against it .... especially since it is deleterious to thymocytes expressing a TCR specific for it!

NFG

 

[supertech69]

I would take 10,000,000,000mg ED that way you get to end up with big tits & no muscle.

You are wasting your money with that crap. Trust me, I tried it. I got a slight strength increase but, hell, I was taking like 5x the recommended dose & that shit is far more expensive than gear only it doesn't have the effects. Save time, money & get the most out of your workout, use the real shit. Most people that take this stuff are working towards taking AS but, haven't worked up the nerve to try it or simply don't know how to get it. You're gonna end up on the darks side eventually anyways, might as well come aboard now!

 

[robby]

i forgot the cost of the SECONDARY antibodies .... what are you using goat anti mouse IgG?

What is this coupled to HRP? Some other freaky tag?

this experiment is a waste of time and money. at least you will see the true worthlessness of "prosteroids" at worst you will get in REAL trouble for fucking around with lab materials ....

be warned,

NFG

i didn't understood one single line, but i'm speakless NFG123,
you know your business

 

[nandi12]

I think this is probably bogus but, being a scientist, I am going to actually test their claim.

Since you are a scientist you have probably already read the study whose abstract is reproduced below. Figure 2 in the study should have answered your questions about timing.

J Appl Physiol 2002 Jan;92(1):142-6

Acute hormonal response to sublingual androstenediol intake in young men.

Brown GA, Martini ER, Roberts BS, Vukovich MD, King DS.

Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011, USA.

The effectiveness of orally ingested androstenediol in raising serum testosterone concentrations may be limited because of hepatic breakdown of the ingested androgens. Because androstenediol administered sublingually with cyclodextrin bypasses first-pass hepatic catabolism, we evaluated the acute hormonal response to sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol supplement in young men. Eight men (22.9 +/- 1.2 yr) experienced in strength training consumed either 20 mg androstenediol in a sublingual cyclodextrin tablet (Sl Diol) or placebo (Pl) separated by at least 1 wk in a randomized, double-blind, crossover manner. Blood samples were collected before supplementation and at 30-min intervals for 3 h after supplementation. Serum hormone concentrations did not change with Pl. Serum androstenedione concentrations were increased (P < 0.05) above baseline (11.2 +/- 1.1 nmol/l) with Sl Diol from 60 to 180 min after intake and reached a peak concentration of 25.2 +/- 2.9 nmol/l at 120 min. Serum free testosterone concentrations were increased from 86.2 +/- 9.1 pmol/l with Sl Diol from 30 to 180 min and reached a peak concentration of 175.4 +/- 12.2 pmol/l at 60 min. Serum total testosterone concentrations increased above basal (25.6 +/- 2.3 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached a peak concentration of 47.9 + 2.9 nmol/l at 60 min. Serum estradiol concentrations were elevated (P < 0.05) above baseline (0.08 +/- 0.01 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached 0.14 +/- 0.02 nmol/l at 180 min. These data indicate that sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol intake increases serum androstenedione, free testosterone, total testosterone, and estradiol concentrations.

 

[MIKERAZ]

i dunno some people seem to be getting good gains by injecting it , animal pushes it

 

[NFG123]

Since you are a scientist you have probably already read the study whose abstract is reproduced below. Figure 2 in the study should have answered your questions about timing.

J Appl Physiol 2002 Jan;92(1):142-6

Acute hormonal response to sublingual androstenediol intake in young men.

Brown GA, Martini ER, Roberts BS, Vukovich MD, King DS.

Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011, USA.

The effectiveness of orally ingested androstenediol in raising serum testosterone concentrations may be limited because of hepatic breakdown of the ingested androgens. Because androstenediol administered sublingually with cyclodextrin bypasses first-pass hepatic catabolism, we evaluated the acute hormonal response to sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol supplement in young men. Eight men (22.9 +/- 1.2 yr) experienced in strength training consumed either 20 mg androstenediol in a sublingual cyclodextrin tablet (Sl Diol) or placebo (Pl) separated by at least 1 wk in a randomized, double-blind, crossover manner. Blood samples were collected before supplementation and at 30-min intervals for 3 h after supplementation. Serum hormone concentrations did not change with Pl. Serum androstenedione concentrations were increased (P < 0.05) above baseline (11.2 +/- 1.1 nmol/l) with Sl Diol from 60 to 180 min after intake and reached a peak concentration of 25.2 +/- 2.9 nmol/l at 120 min. Serum free testosterone concentrations were increased from 86.2 +/- 9.1 pmol/l with Sl Diol from 30 to 180 min and reached a peak concentration of 175.4 +/- 12.2 pmol/l at 60 min. Serum total testosterone concentrations increased above basal (25.6 +/- 2.3 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached a peak concentration of 47.9 + 2.9 nmol/l at 60 min. Serum estradiol concentrations were elevated (P < 0.05) above baseline (0.08 +/- 0.01 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached 0.14 +/- 0.02 nmol/l at 180 min. These data indicate that sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol intake increases serum androstenedione, free testosterone, total testosterone, and estradiol concentrations.

20 mg once a week ... this dose is pithy. Why bother with the study. With the cost of the significant levels of prohormones necessary to achieve sustained, elevated levels, for my money, I want to run real testosterone and achieve real results.

This is a waste of time, money and board space (prohormones).

NFG

 

[Spidey]

NFG123

You shouldn't try to impress everyone with your knowledge of science. You obviously don't know as much as you think you do. First of all, of course antibodies can't be generated against any molecules that small. The antibodies are generated against the albumin conjugate of testosterone. Testosterone is in equilibrium with serum albumin. That means free testosterone and albumin bound testosterone are in a constant ratio. If you measure the albumin bound testosterone, it is a simple calculation to arrive at total testosterone concentration. Second, the antibodies weren't hard to find and they weren't that expensive. It costed about two hundred dollars for all the antibodies needed (including the secondary albumin antibodies). If you like, I can post the catalog number. Third, we buy microplates by the caseload for use in normal daily operations and we get a discount for volume. If you break the price down they are only a dollar or two a piece so we're not using a lot of expensive disposable lab equipment; we're not likely to get into trouble for "using lab resources".

To everyone else out there, we should be able to do the test within the next couple of days. I'll post the results when we get them.

SUPERTECH69

Yes, you're right. I would rather be taking real steroids but I don't know a source yet. My friend just nearly got busted trying to get them through the mail. Fortunately, he was smart enough not to use his real name, sent the money by Western Union, and had it delivered to a PO box instead of his house. The only thing in the box he received was a summons! Apparently the postal inspector nabbed the stuff. His court defense is that "obviously someone sent the package to the wrong PO box. That's not his name." The charges are being dismissed.

-Spidey

 

[Sigmund Roid]

optimum dosage for androstenediol?

flush 5 times a day 100 mg androstenediol down the toilet.

 

[nandi12]

20 mg once a week ... this dose is pithy.

As the title of the study implied, NFG, the authors were looking at the ACUTE response to a single dose of sublingual androstenediol. They were not administering it at 20mg/week. They administerd it once and sampled blood levels of test and estradiol over a period of 180 min.

The point of the study was not to test how effective androstenediol would be for steroid abusing bodybuilders. The authors were looking for a way to administer androgens to hypogonadal individuals that would maintain uniform blood levels of testosterone compared to the spike and drop off one sees with weekly or biweekly test enanthate injections.

 

[CAROLINACHICK]

So........ What's the outcome?

 

[Spidey]

So........ What's the outcome?

I posted the results in another thread. Do a search under my name and it wil pop up. To summarize: androstenediol is a waste of money. No significant difference in serum testosterone levels from before and 40 minutes after taking the poppers. I actually registered a 14% increase but that was within the experimental error of the measurement (because I only measured once).

-Spidey