Doing WHEY only pre-post workout????

[The Shadow]

..you might want to consider altering that.

A new study just confirmed that a casein/whey shake POST workout contributed to more LBM gains than whey PLUS bcaas.


New recommendation:

10-15 grams EACH of whey AND casein one hour prework out and immediately post workout.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Why? What was the reasoning?

This is what I am thinking - although I may be wrong.
The combo - whey "gets in" muscles quick immediately post-WO, then the slower casein gets absorbed slower while the muscle is rebuilding and the metabolism is still raised post-WO.

I hope that sounded somewhat intelligible. I am a little scattered right now.

 

[*Bunny*]

Can you post the study

 

[treilin]

Read the same thing last week. Said protein powder use casein or a casein/whey blend 15g of protein with 25-30g carb 30 -60 min. pre-work-out.
Actually that was from a 2003 published book

He states (Some of this is paraphrased)
"casein has recently been shown to be anti-catabolic compared to whey protein, which means it will be more useful in helping to prevent any muscle loss during the diet days." He also suggests using a low-fat cheese on top of other proteins is an excellent way to get cassein protein withour resorting to liquids, and that it tastes better. Liquid proteins don't tend to control hunger very well which is why I don't recommend them on the diet days."

 

[*Bunny*]

Thanks for that T

 

[Miss24k]

Actually in reference to T's post (liquid protein, doesn't control hunger), Casein is a pretty thick protein, and you do feel full longer than with whey, well from my personal expience anyway. I can not do just whey as a meal when dieting but half whey half casein no problem.

 

[Tomer]

ugh... I'd puke if I did a workout after drinking some whey..
and I get up at 4:45 as it is... don't see my self getting up at 3:45 before my workout

interested to read the study however

 

[The Shadow]

...this is a very recent study cited in a muscle rag.

 

[florencia]

Confused & Stubborn??? Who???
Me...
I want to understand if it would be better to use WHEY, than egg whites for protein intake-even though they are completly different things-
I say stubborn ^^ because I prefer to eat food as natural as possible...
I began with met-rx adn myoplex shakes ufffff 7 years ago, and I am knd of full of those...
i ate my earthly ration...LOL...

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Real food is almost ALWAYS better than engineered food (protein powders).

Times I think there is a benefit to engineered foods ..... 1) Post-WO for quickness of absorption, 2) if the alternative is NO MEAL at all, and 3) to help boost protein intake without adding a lot of calories from carbs and fat.

 

[The Shadow]

We are talking about 2 different studies.

One is from a hunger standpoint.

The study I referred to refers to the actually difference between ENHANCED WHEY(it had extra bcaas added) and Casein in terms of LBM gains.

This is significant as the vast majority of folks do NOT USE Casein in a pre and certainly not a post workout scenario.

The implications are that while Whey hits quickly and does good things where insulin levels are concerned...LBM GAINS WERE SIGNIFICANTLY higher in the combo-protein mix.

I have never been a big fan of Whey preworkout anyway, even in gatorade etc, and I am even more convinced that it isnt the "best" way to go before a workout.

 

[florencia]

Real food is almost ALWAYS better than engineered food (protein powders).

Times I think there is a benefit to engineered foods ..... 1) Post-WO for quickness of absorption, 2) if the alternative is NO MEAL at all, and 3) to help boost protein intake without adding a lot of calories from carbs and fat.

I think so too!
TSO says she cooks like 900lbs. of chicken breasts...i cook gallons of egg whites!
Chicken also! I have found a new way to eat them...ask butcher to grind chicken breast, then add parsley, salt & pepper, a hint of ground oats, 1 TBSP milk make long "tounge" like patties to your oz. consumtion and place on hot skillet with pam!!!Yum yum yum!!!

 

[gymmum]

I think so too!
TSO says she cooks like 900lbs. of chicken breasts...i cook gallons of egg whites!
Chicken also! I have found a new way to eat them...ask butcher to grind chicken breast, then add parsley, salt & pepper, a hint of ground oats, 1 TBSP milk make long "tounge" like patties to your oz. consumtion and place on hot skillet with pam!!!Yum yum yum!!!

Sounds delicious Florencia..

 

[jpt]

So Shadow....you Think Something Like A Muscle Milk Would Be Good For Pre And Pwo?

 

[c3bodybuilding]

Your best bet for a post workout shake is 20-60 grams of whey (depending on size) mixed in water, some simple carbs, glutamine peptides and creatine. If you are using slin, then use the accurate number of carbs. Otherwise just pop some Rala 15mins before your workout is finished and have about 30grams of carbs with the shake.

The Casein would be a good idea for someone who might have to return to work after their workout and wouldn't have time for a real meal anytime soon. But you want that first shake absorbed and done quickly, so you are able to eat a high quality meal of carbs and protein an hour after your shake.

As for a preworkout shake. It's best to eat a high quality meal a couple of hours before you train. Then have a small whey shake with some skim milk 45mins prior to the workout. That way you get the longer lasting casein effects, without spending extra money on another bottle of powder. Also be sure to add some glutamine peptides and creatine in there as well. Regular glutamine is garbage and isn't used by the body.

If any of you want some great tips, go to professionalmuscle, A LOT of IFBB pro's and their gurus post there. You would be amazed at some of their little secrets. Great stuff all around.


BTW JPT, muscle milk would be a terrible post workout drink.

 

[The Shadow]

....again.

LOL


That is not what the new study revealed.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

So Shadow....you Think Something Like A Muscle Milk Would Be Good For Pre And Pwo?

Probably not - because of the fat content.

 

[Miss24k]

....again.

LOL


That is not what the new study revealed.

What is YOUR opinion S?

 

[The Shadow]

Im not a fan of muscle milk as stated for the fat content.

24 - it makes sense if you do a whey/casein pre AND post.

Timeline:

PREWORKOUT(Whey plus Casein) - whey hits quickly
MID/LATE WORKOUT - Casein "ball" is trickle feeding
POSTWORK(Whey plus Casein) - pre workout Casein ends trickle - Whey hits fast...then the 2nd dose of Casein forms ball and trickle feeds.


I think the theory of doing both makes a LOT of sense.

ESPECIALLY since the whey/casein peoduced more LBM than WHEY/Bcaas(bcaas generlaly used to prevent lbm LOSSES during training)

 

[jpt]

so one scoop of ON whey and one scoop of muscle milk would be ideal before and after? fat content in muscle milk is only 6g with one scoop

 

[The Shadow]

you dont want fat post workout