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Do you think anyone will ever drop a nuclear BOMB again?

Lumberg said:
How does this compare to the Bubonic Plague of the 1300s, both in terms of raw numbers, and percentage of population killed.

One difference would be that the plague I don't believe discriminated, while war takes its toll on able-bodied men.
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I dont know quite what your point is, I just stated the estimated death toll of WW2. What the plague killed roughly 140million people. And the 1917-8 influenza pandemic killed 25million in one year dwarfing the loss of life in WW1 which was I think 9 million. And in 1997 alone 20million people in the world died of starvation.

War isnt good, but you cant live in a fantasy world and think it doesnt happen and then not study the history and motives behind the conflicts. They arent as superficial as one thinks. Wars are started for very complex reasons and each war has at least a large book filled with the reasons why theyve begun. So I have refrained on this thread for even attempting to argue a side for war as it would just be useless argument masturbation as Id rather the person read it for themselves instead just making a knee jerk statement about wars and here's why I hate war with a blanket statement. Wars are never the same as another.
 
Lumberg said:
Who said I had to have a point? What is it with you and points?!?!?! GOD~
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LOL, I was just confused, I wasnt trying to get involved in the fray when I posted the stats on the death toll. I was like is he just messing with me or what. Its all good.
 
While we have more nukes, we also have the most to lose.


Sure....we can incinerate any part of the world that we want.

But consider the ramifications of a suitcase in downtown Manhattan.

Being able to say "Well they started it will always help the party who drops."


Those who feel that flying a couple jets into a couple buildings rationalizes anything are a bit......frightening.
 
Testosterone boy said:
Those who feel that flying a couple jets into a couple buildings rationalizes anything are a bit......frightening.
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Exactly, and the worldwide jihad movement is only going to grow and become more significant a threat with more sophisticated attacks. The planes will looklike childsplay for they want to unleash on us, maybe not now, but within the next twenty years. They are very patient and plan things out in great detail.
Cut off one of the beast and a new one grows in its place. Sleeper cells are all over the place with no knowledge of each other.
Sheet! Where's my plastic and duct tape?
 
SacStateHornet said:
I don't think these weapons will be used again.
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Nonsense , If Saddam was still in power and had some he'd definitly use them.
A man who genocidily kill more than a million of his own people would think twice about dropping a bomb on Wall Street???

The only reason why Manhattan is still there is becasue the 911 terrorists did have nukes.

Don't be so sure that people give a shit wheather you live or die
 
gjohnson5 said:
Nonsense , If Saddam was still in power and had some he'd definitly use them.
A man who genocidily kill more than a million of his own people would think twice about dropping a bomb on Wall Street???

The only reason why Manhattan is still there is becasue the 911 terrorists did have nukes.

Don't be so sure that people give a shit wheather you live or die
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I guess I just have more faith in humanity.
 
1941: Pearl Harbor
1945: Hiroshima.

Don't overthink it.


As for Soviet losses...why shed a tear for them?

The USSR is simply the greatest mass murderer of all time, killing more of its own people and destroying more of its own productivity than any society in human history. The USSR, in addition to losing 20-30M in the war, through its collective farming programs, managed to actually decrease the productivity of its farmland to the point that they were more productive in 1917 than in 1985 and there were more people to feed!

Russia is the greatest failure of a society in the history of mankind. If only more of them had died and the country had collapsed 50 years ago...
 
gjohnson5 said:
Nonsense , If Saddam was still in power and had some he'd definitly use them.
A man who genocidily kill more than a million of his own people would think twice about dropping a bomb on Wall Street???

The only reason why Manhattan is still there is becasue the 911 terrorists did have nukes.

Don't be so sure that people give a shit wheather you live or die
Click to expand...
I heard He HAs weapons Of mass destruction.

What did Sadam have to do with the 9-11 terrorists?

nevermind.

I dont want to fight tonight.

Im taking a Nap.
 
did i mentio i like to hand out bombs
 
gjohnson5 said:
I don't believe he had any becuase if he did , I feel he would have used them.
All this talk about Iraq having wmd was a smokescreen
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Also note that I made no correlation between Saddam and 911. I don't think I've seen any hard or even plyable informaion on tha topic.

PerfectWorld , I want you to think outside the Democatic box if you will and think about this.

I was in in ROTC in college for a while and they spend some of time talking about "scenarios" What if situations. How do you stop or defend against situation A. I guess folks with stars on thier lapels were brainstorming that

1. What if Saddam has or is making arrangements to get WDM
2. Is communicating with folks with cash

Do you think it's better to wait on intelligence that may never get there if the above situation is true or not or do you jump and find out the reality? We've all seen the blunders in intelligence agencies up to date.
If it were up to me , I'd not sure how I would decide because if the situation is true then alot of lives are at risk...
 
gjohnson5 said:
Also note that I made no correlation between Saddam and 911. I don't think I've seen any hard or even plyable informaion on tha topic.

PerfectWorld , I want you to think outside the Democatic box if you will and think about this.

I was in in ROTC in college for a while and they spend some of time talking about "scenarios" What if situations. How do you stop or defend against situation A. I guess folks with stars on thier lapels were brainstorming that

1. What if Saddam has or is making arrangements to get WDM
2. Is communicating with folks with cash

Do you think it's better to wait on intelligence that may never get there if the above situation is true or not or do you jump and find out the reality? We've all seen the blunders in intelligence agencies up to date.
If it were up to me , I'd not sure how I would decide because if the situation is true then alot of lives are at risk...
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Sigh....I dont want to argue.

We had Inspectors In place.

They Found Nothing then

and then 3 years and how many lives later ...

the White House officially Released those Findings.

Sadam Complied with Everything we asked For.

I didnt mean to Link them If thats Not How You Meant It.

if you Go back and Look At Your Post You Will see How I Contrived That From It.

sorry.
 
WODIN said:
It will 1 of 3.

A china internal conflict.
A North Korea v South Korea conflict
A India v pakistan conflict

In 1994 Pakistan was going to launch nukes into India and vice-a-versa when the Kashmere fighting was peaking. WE and other nuclear powers went to each country and did informational presentations telling each country what would happen and that no one in the world would be there to help. Because it would be impossible to help anyone in the region for over 100 years.

They both backed down.
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They cant help me fix my computer either.

Idiots.
 
perfectworld said:
the White House officially Released those Findings.

Sadam Complied with Everything we asked For.
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I would love for you to show us where the findings stated this.
 
perfectworld said:
Sigh....I dont want to argue.

We had Inspectors In place.

They Found Nothing then

and then 3 years and how many lives later ...
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Inspectors???

C'mon do you really believe inspectors knew what all was going on in iraq???
Inspectors... That's funny.

The inspectors weren't given access time and time again. Atleast that was in the news. I don't generally believe all that I read or see on the news.
Alot of this is PR , I'm still trying to figure all that out. I'm curious what real information they had.

Yes I am interested to know what information Bush has release and where it is.
 
gjohnson5 said:
Inspectors???

C'mon do you really believe inspectors knew what all was going on in iraq???
Inspectors... That's funny.

The inspectors weren't given access time and time again. Atleast that was in the news. I don't generally believe all that I read or see on the news.
Alot of this is PR , I'm still trying to figure all that out. I'm curious what real information they had.

Yes I am interested to know what information Bush has release and where it is.
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Yeah its Funny.
 
gjohnson5 said:
Inspectors???

C'mon do you really believe inspectors knew what all was going on in iraq???
Inspectors... That's funny.

The inspectors weren't given access time and time again. Atleast that was in the news. I don't generally believe all that I read or see on the news.
Alot of this is PR , I'm still trying to figure all that out. I'm curious what real information they had.

Yes I am interested to know what information Bush has release and where it is.
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there were no WMD's in Iraq. in a national security statement before 9/11 they stated that Sadam and his regime were not a threat and they had no WMD's.

I could give you a link to a couple sites but I have to warn you that they are very controversial. you might not like what you read, but they do show evidence to a conspiracy of 9/11. its interesting reading.
 
JustJacked said:
there were no WMD's in Iraq. in a national security statement before 9/11 they stated that Sadam and his regime were not a threat and they had no WMD's.
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I said that a few posts ago....

JustJacked said:
I could give you a link to a couple sites but I have to warn you that they are very controversial. you might not like what you read, but they do show evidence to a conspiracy of 9/11. its interesting reading.
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Go back and reread. This is the exact issue I was stating in my scenario post. If I were going to make a decision to invade or not, I would need some evidence that he was a threat and in working in cooperation with others. Wheather this information is legit or not is probably not relevant. After 9/11 with such information available it could be decided that he is a threat when he may not have been. It depends on the information.
 
gjohnson5 said:
Go back and reread. This is the exact issue I was stating in my scenario post. If I were going to make a decision to invade or not, I would need some evidence that he was a threat and in working in cooperation with others. Wheather this information is legit or not is probably not relevant. After 9/11 with such information available it could be decided that he is a threat when he may not have been. It depends on the information.
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well your one up on Bush.
 
CrazyRussian said:
Are you talking about the same George Bush who invaded Iraq only after Russian, British, and American intelligence told him that Iraq possed WMD's?
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DUDE, seriously, dont try to argue logic here, it has failed time and time again, trust me it wont work.
 
CrazyRussian said:
Are you talking about the same George Bush who invaded Iraq only after Russian, British, and American intelligence told him that Iraq possed WMD's?
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A WORLD TEST?

dont forget Poland...
 
CrazyRussian said:
Are you talking about the same George Bush who invaded Iraq only after Russian, British, and American intelligence told him that Iraq possed WMD's?
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no, he told himself that they had WMD's. then they had former SecState Colin Powell anounce to the country that Sadam had WMD's. before 911 the national security statement said that Sadam was not a threat and they had no WMD's. dont you watch the news? you have to watch carefully cause the juicy details only come on for a couple seconds. they made the whole thing up. him, Wolfowitz, and Cheney. why do you think that Colin Powell resigned? he didnt like the lies so he got out. now there using Condoleeza Rice. listen to her speak. shes a fucking robot. its hilarious.
 
A lot of us didn't object to the invasion.

But we had no idea that the modus operandi would be turning Iraq into a 3rd world pisshole replete with toxic drinking water and absolutely wanton destruction.


If Iraq had really fought....they could defend their tactics.
 
Testosterone boy said:
A lot of us didn't object to the invasion.

But we had no idea that the modus operandi would be turning Iraq into a 3rd world pisshole replete with toxic drinking water and absolutely wanton destruction.


If Iraq had really fought....they could defend their tactics.
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most people were fo the invasion because they believed that Sadam was behind the WTC attacks. Condoleeze Rice, in a national security statement stated that Sadam had some thing to do with 9/11. so did Cheney, and so did wolfowitz. they even had Colin Powell say it to. then they all found out it had nothing to do with them. boy did they look like idiots.
 
BrothaBill said:
DUDE, seriously, dont try to argue logic here, it has failed time and time again, trust me it wont work.
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agree......If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
 
CrazyRussian said:
Are you talking about the same George Bush who invaded Iraq only after Russian, British, and American intelligence told him that Iraq possed WMD's?
Click to expand...

When you have bad information it's hard to make a good decisions. With the firings , resignations , and intelligence reforms currently going on, the only conclusion that seems to make sense is that the information was either bad or over weighed.

excerpt from the scientific community on this subject at the top where it says "Key Judgements"

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm

Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions; if left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade.

Baghdad hides large portions of Iraq's WMD efforts. Revelations after the Gulf war starkly demonstrate the extensive efforts undertaken by Iraq to deny information.

Since inspections ended in 1998, Iraq has maintained its chemical weapons effort, energized its missile program, and invested more heavily in biological weapons; most analysts assess Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.


Iraq's growing ability to sell oil illicitly increases Baghdad's capabilities to finance WMD programs; annual earnings in cash and goods have more than quadrupled.

Iraq largely has rebuilt missile and biological weapons facilities damaged during Operation Desert Fox and has expanded its chemical and biological infrastructure under the cover of civilian production.

Baghdad has exceeded UN range limits of 150 km with its ballistic missiles and is working with unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which allow for a more lethal means to deliver biological and, less likely, chemical warfare agents.

Although Saddam probably does not yet have nuclear weapons or sufficient material to make any, he remains intent on acquiring them.

Not saying I believe this , but this could sway people in believing there is infact a threat when maybe it's overstated
 
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gjohnson5 said:
When you have bad information it's hard to make a good decisions. With the firings , resignations , and intelligence reforms currently going on, the only conclusion that seems to make sense is that the information was either bad or over weighed.

excerpt from the scientific community on this subject at the top where it says "Key Judgements"

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm

Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions; if left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade.

Baghdad hides large portions of Iraq's WMD efforts. Revelations after the Gulf war starkly demonstrate the extensive efforts undertaken by Iraq to deny information.

Since inspections ended in 1998, Iraq has maintained its chemical weapons effort, energized its missile program, and invested more heavily in biological weapons; most analysts assess Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.


Iraq's growing ability to sell oil illicitly increases Baghdad's capabilities to finance WMD programs; annual earnings in cash and goods have more than quadrupled.

Iraq largely has rebuilt missile and biological weapons facilities damaged during Operation Desert Fox and has expanded its chemical and biological infrastructure under the cover of civilian production.

Baghdad has exceeded UN range limits of 150 km with its ballistic missiles and is working with unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which allow for a more lethal means to deliver biological and, less likely, chemical warfare agents.

Although Saddam probably does not yet have nuclear weapons or sufficient material to make any, he remains intent on acquiring them.

Not saying I believe this , but this could sway people in believing there is infact a threat when maybe it's overstated
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all this info is outdated, in the late 80s Iraq built a nuclear reactor, and then Isreal bombed it down, and since then Iraq have been in many wars with Iran for 10 years, kuwait and the US. why didnt use any of these advance wepons if they had it. hell they invaded their country, and they didnt use even one rocket to defend them self.
 
x_muscle said:
all this info is outdated, in the late 80s Iraq built a nuclear reactor, and then Isreal bobmbed it down, and since then Iraq have been in many wars with Iran for 10 years, kuwait and the US. why didnt use any of these advance wepons if they had it. hell they invaded their country, and they didnt use even one rocket to defend them self.
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exactly. and the reason is because they had none. they had shitty weapons. the US needed an excuse to invade Iraq so they came up with that. I agree that Sadam needed to be removed but they are doing it for the wrong reasons.
 
wow...

I guess Its good You Guys Are Still Talking about this ...

But WOW.

Im amazed at How Misinformed or UNinformed we are As A People.
 
x_muscle said:
all this info is outdated, in the late 80s Iraq built a nuclear reactor, and then Isreal bombed it down, and since then Iraq have been in many wars with Iran for 10 years, kuwait and the US. why didnt use any of these advance wepons if they had it. hell they invaded their country, and they didnt use even one rocket to defend them self.
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The information comes from scientists in 2002 , after all the conflicts you just stated...

But anyway You're still not getting it. The idea is to recreate the information at the time before the invasion. In order to make a decison to invade you need proof that there is a "clear and present danger" This is what you need

1. What information te inspectors has before the invasion. I just posted that
2. What intel info you have on Saddam communication with Osama
3. Saddam willingness to use weapons against America or allies if given he has such ability

The only clear one is number 3. If he had it , he would have used it. I agree with you that he had none because he didn't use any.
 
you cant just invade a country because they dont like you and you THINK they would bomb you if they could. their after the oil. the UN decided that the British will handle all the oil. well how convenient, Bush's closest ally.
 
BUsh And His Admin Lied And Cheated.

Thats Not what America Is Supposed To Be about.

yes..Its That Simple.
 
x_muscle said:
all this info is outdated, in the late 80s Iraq built a nuclear reactor, and then Isreal bombed it down, and since then Iraq have been in many wars with Iran for 10 years, kuwait and the US. why didnt use any of these advance wepons if they had it. hell they invaded their country, and they didnt use even one rocket to defend them self.
Click to expand...

They used these weapons in their war against Iran. They launched missiles into Israel in '91, and Kuwait in '03.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
Russia is the greatest failure of a society in the history of mankind. If only more of them had died and the country had collapsed 50 years ago...
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NO, it was Communism and Marxism that was the failure. America is currently in the grips of Cultural Marxism and will eventually collapse as did the Soviet Union.

If you want to see TRULY failed societies, go to just about anywhere in Africa, below the Saraha, or Detriot.
 
Scenario: 2million plus armed 'individuals' gather at the boarders of Saudi Arabia after the U.S. led 'coalition of the crossbearers' decides unilaterally that 'enough is enough' and deposes the Royal Family after they denounce the killing of the Syrian President in exile by 'Zionist Operatives' .


The leader of the rabble, Al al Alalalal bin Albundy, vows not only to raze the oil infrastructure of the entire Peninsula to rid the people of their yoke, but has a minimegaton bomb that he vows to place deep in the 'river of black gold' under the holy land and detonate, rendering the last great accessible land based fields dead for eternity.






The U.S. will nuke the bastards faster than you can say "Holy Holy Holy is the Lord of Hosts".
 
Hengst said:
NO, it was Communism and Marxism that was the failure. America is currently in the grips of Cultural Marxism and will eventually collapse as did the Soviet Union.

If you want to see TRULY failed societies, go to just about anywhere in Africa, below the Saraha, or Detriot.
Click to expand...


I agree in principle, but the USSR had more oil than Saudi Arabia, and more arable land than the US. Those are big natural advantages; unmatched on the planet.

Agree with you about cultural Marxism; prefer to ignore the ultiamte outcome for now. :)
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
Agree with you about cultural Marxism; prefer to ignore the ultiamte outcome for now. :)
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Ok I have to ask what is cultural Marxism?

Second matt,

Why do you think the Jews have been able to stay a nation for so long. When so many nations have tried to wipe them out?
 
curling said:
Ok I have to ask what is cultural Marxism?

Second matt,

Why do you think the Jews have been able to stay a nation for so long. When so many nations have tried to wipe them out?
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If you want to know about Marxism or Communism read the Book: Das Kapital, by Karl Marx. Marx was born a Jew, but like Einstein and Freud, he was in his own little world!

to answer your second question, We Run Tings! lol
 
JustJacked said:
If you want to know about Marxism or Communism read the Book: Das Kapital, by Karl Marx. Marx was born a Jew, but like Einstein and Freud, he was in his own little world!
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Could I get the like a two sentence explanation instead. I think the whole idea of communism is stupid also I don't like reading.
 
curling said:
Ok I have to ask what is cultural Marxism?

Second matt,

Why do you think the Jews have been able to stay a nation for so long. When so many nations have tried to wipe them out?
Click to expand...

I have posted at great length as to why many nations tried to wipe out the Jews - for a comprehensive understanding of it, read the book "Constantine's Sword" by James Carroll.

Cultural Marxism refers to the culture of equalizing everything desppite obuous differences. Economic Marxism could be defined as "from each accoridng to his ability to each according to his needs".

Culturally, that refers to programs like affirmative action which reach out to groups perceived as "in need" or other quota based programs...really anything that attempts to level playing fields inappropriately.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
I have posted at great length as to why many nations tried to wipe out the Jews - for a comprehensive understanding of it, read the book "Constantine's Sword" by James Carroll.

Cultural Marxism refers to the culture of equalizing everything desppite obuous differences. Economic Marxism could be defined as "from each accoridng to his ability to each according to his needs".

Culturally, that refers to programs like affirmative action which reach out to groups perceived as "in need" or other quota based programs...really anything that attempts to level playing fields inappropriately.
Click to expand...

Oh I see and understand. Another reason to hate the liberal movement.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
I have posted at great length as to why many nations tried to wipe out the Jews - for a comprehensive understanding of it, read the book "Constantine's Sword" by James Carroll.

Cultural Marxism refers to the culture of equalizing everything desppite obuous differences. Economic Marxism could be defined as "from each accoridng to his ability to each according to his needs".

Culturally, that refers to programs like affirmative action which reach out to groups perceived as "in need" or other quota based programs...really anything that attempts to level playing fields inappropriately.
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does that book have anything to do with the new movie?
 
Lestat said:
does that book have anything to do with the new movie?
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Nothing at all.
 
well guys, i dont usually say this, but im Palestinian Christian. Only reason Israel Exist, because the Jews are very smart and powerful. they used to control Europe when Great Brittan was control the world, and now the have one of the strongest Lobbyist in the White house. if you look around, you realize who control most of the media, financial institutions are Jew. they basically tough smart, and twisted nation.

I dont think any one can face Palestinians, and all Arabs like Israel, not even the US will no be to survive that.
 
JustJacked said:
Hey bro, what do you mean by that?
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I mean Israel structure, and social atmosphere made it strong after years of war with Palestinians, people there live in constant war and they are use to it. Israel almost become a war nation.

The US will not be able to survive such war , after 9/11 every one freaked out here. what is happing in Iraq is forcing the people to put on pressure on the government so they pull out of Iraq, because they dont want their soldiers to die.
 
x_muscle said:
I mean Israel structure, and social atmosphere made it strong after years of war with Palestinians, people there live in constant war and they are use to it. Israel almost become a war nation.

The US will not be able to survive such war , after 9/11 every one freaked out here. what is happing in Iraq is forcing the people to put on pressure on the government so they pull out of Iraq, because they dont want their soldiers to die.
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It wasnt really war with the Palestinians, it was war with the surounding countries.

And I agree with you that the US will not survive such a war. But the government doesnt care about there soldiers. Look at how they are treated.
 
Yup they don't care...

that's why we have the highest funded military in the World by FAR. It's not even REMOTELY close.

In 1999, we spent more on our military than Japan, France, Germany, Russia, UK, Italy, S Korea, Saudi Arabia, and China combined.

In 2000 we spent a bout the same amount (a bit more actually) as Russia, France, Germany, UK, Japan, Italy, Saudi Arabia, and Brazil combined.

But, we don't care about our military...nope...
 
CrazyRussian said:
Yup they don't care...

that's why we have the highest funded military in the World by FAR. It's not even REMOTELY close.

In 1999, we spent more on our military than Japan, France, Germany, Russia, UK, Italy, S Korea, Saudi Arabia, and China combined.

In 2000 we spent a bout the same amount (a bit more actually) as Russia, France, Germany, UK, Japan, Italy, Saudi Arabia, and Brazil combined.

But, we don't care about our military...nope...
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lol. This makes no sense. What does this have to do with the way they treat their troops? They get the best equipment on the field, but when they go home what do they get?
 
It means that our troops are given the best medical supplies, weapons, and resources to do their duty. If we really didn't care about our military, we'd give them pitchforks and tell them to go fight (a la Russia.)

BTW, you're saying that we spend about 7 or 8 times more money on our military than the 2nd place country in the world, and that we treat them WORSE? That just doesn't fit, logically.
 
CrazyRussian said:
It means that our troops are given the best medical supplies, weapons, and resources to do their duty. If we really didn't care about our military, we'd give them pitchforks and tell them to go fight (a la Russia.)

BTW, you're saying that we spend about 7 or 8 times more money on our military than the 2nd place country in the world, and that we treat them WORSE? That just doesn't fit, logically.
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Like I said before, on the field they are treated the best, but when they return home they are forgotten. What does this tell you? It tells me that they are being used.
 
Just for general board information:

I am Top 10 in crticising our foreign policies as of late. I distrust them so vehemently that I switched from Rep. to Dem. last year.

Some people assume that that carries over to our troops. Nothing could be further from the truth.


The biggest and most prominent photos at my studio are military guys.

I was raised in a military family though medical electrician isn't all that military

I offer a miliatry discount and proudly work with our troops


so there :mommakin:
 
JerseyArt said:
The anticipated US casualties were estimated as high as 500,000.

People act like the Japanese who died would have somehow felt better about the experience if they had been shot or conventionally bombed instead.
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such as those who died in the horrific incendiary firsestorms created in the ohter cities
they would seek refuge from the flames in the waterways
only to boil
 
Testosterone boy said:
I offer a miliatry discount and proudly work with our troops
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So you dont refuse them service? Oh, thats cool to know. GJ dude

justjacked, please show me one piece of concrete evidence that what you say is true. A link to a news story of some 40 year old guy who got called back into service doesn't count :rolleyes:
 
JustJacked said:
It was the Soviets who saved the world from the germans. when the Soviets overran the Nazi concentration camps they found enough Zyklon-B crystals to kill 20,000,000 people. but their were only 3,000,000 Jews left in Europe.
Nazi plans called for the murder of 10,000,000 non-germainic people each year. the Nazis murdered 7,000,000 Christians before they murdered any Jews.

in 6 years of war 17,000,000 able-bodied men of war were killed in battle. 18,000,000 civilians were killed as a direct result of war. and an additional 12,000,000 people were murdered by the Nazis. 5,000,000 Jews, and 7,000,000 Christians.

german cassualties: 3,250,000 battle deaths, 3,350,000 civilian deaths, and around 5,000,000 wounded. out of 20,000,000 buildings, 7,000,000 were destroyed. the war cost the Germans 272,000,000,000$
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conversely it was the germans that saved the world from the soviets
they both gutted each other
 
CrazyRussian said:
So you dont refuse them service? Oh, thats cool to know. GJ dude

justjacked, please show me one piece of concrete evidence that what you say is true. A link to a news story of some 40 year old guy who got called back into service doesn't count :rolleyes:
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Look yourself. I dont need to prove anything to you. I could care less what your opinion is. :)
 
AHhahhahah that's funny.

You throw out ridiculous comments such as "The US treats their soldiers horribly", but when I ask you for even one source of concrete proof, you can't find it.

Whatever, you could care less about me, and I could care less about you, but I think you've lost all your credibility in respect to this particular argument.
 
4everhung said:
conversely it was the germans that saved the world from the soviets
they both gutted each other
Click to expand...
interesting



without Hitler we would have had:

a mess of German

a mess of Ruskies

a mess of Jews


Wonder what the outcome would have been?
 
I think w/o Hitler Germany would have re-militarized and have had a show-down with Stalin's USSR. In fact it was inevitable,given Stalin's expansionist doctrine.
 
That's never, ever, ever, ever going to happen, testosterone.

How many anti-American groups are there out there who would like to send a nuke at us? Hundreds? Thousands?

How many nukes have been launched at America, ever?

Zero

You don't think these groups have been trying to nuke us? You don't think anyone's tried to pull that off already?
 
JustJacked said:
Yes your right. I'm an uneducated fool.

Heres one for ya. Wow, they had to use scrap metal found in junkyards and armor for there vehicles. Sounds like a big budget army to me!
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=312959&page=1
Click to expand...

justjacked, I can show you official numbers saying that we spent 8 times more than the nearest country on military in the past few years. You're saying that we don't, and as proof, give me one article by a biased news agency that was probably taken out of context anyway? Wow, we have a few humvees made out of scrap metal...thats one out of what, thousands? It doesn't prove anything.

You can always point out some sob story of a soldier who didn't have proper armor on and died from a mortar attack...if only the government provided him with armor. That's not the point..there will ALWAYS be isolated incidents like this. The point is that as a whole, in general, the US government is the best funded in the world..by far.

BTW, to quote that article you posted

"This makeshift armor ended up saving the life of a crew whose vehicle took a direct hit from a rocket-propelled grenade. They say it will take 2½ months to get a new door to replace the one that was damaged. "
 
JustJacked said:
Yes your right. I'm an uneducated fool.

Heres one for ya. Wow, they had to use scrap metal found in junkyards and armor for there vehicles. Sounds like a big budget army to me!
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=312959&page=1
Click to expand...
those vehicles weren't meant for "frontline" action
when the "war" went guerilla and the "front" became everwhere overnight
a need was created overnight
still though there are trade-offs to adding that much weight to the vehicle
the US armed forces are not under funded
 
CrazyRussian said:
justjacked, I can show you official numbers saying that we spent 8 times more than the nearest country on military in the past few years. You're saying that we don't, and as proof, give me one article by a biased news agency that was probably taken out of context anyway?
Click to expand...


I never said that the US doesnt spend alot of money on military. I said that they dont treat their troops like they deserve. They cut pensions, cut funding, lie to them, make them serve longer than they say. How long ago did they promise the troops that they would be out of Iraq?

They spend all this amount of money on their military but they cant even give the troops proper armor. Did you hear about the soldier who died in his Humvee because it wasnt armored and they were doing a test with explosives?

I'm not gonna sit hear and google search for hours just to prove my point. You obviasly dont watch the news at all. I suggest you start. You will be surprised at all the complaints from the US soldiers. Talk to some veterens and see how the government is fucking them over for their pensions. At least do some research before you start talking like you know everything. You will be surprised what you find. You find what you look for.
 
JustJacked said:
I never said that the US doesnt spend alot of money on military. I said that they dont treat their troops like they deserve. They cut pensions, cut funding, lie to them, make them serve longer than they say. How long ago did they promise the troops that they would be out of Iraq?

They spend all this amount of money on their military but they cant even give the troops proper armor. Did you hear about the soldier who died in his Humvee because it wasnt armored and they were doing a test with explosives?

I'm not gonna sit hear and google search for hours just to prove my point. You obviasly dont watch the news at all. I suggest you start. You will be surprised at all the complaints from the US soldiers. Talk to some veterens and see how the government is fucking them over for their pensions. At least do some research before you start talking like you know everything. You will be surprised what you find. You find what you look for.
Click to expand...
http://strategypage.com/default.asp
 
What I read elswhere is that the highest level of armor for the hummer will only protect against high power rifles and nothing else. To armor against things like land mines and have the crew servive, instead of just the vehicle, would make the hummer so heavy it wouldn't be able to move. It still wouldn't protect it against eye level mines with trip wires since even bullet resistent glass can only stop so much.If they use armor that can't stop the particular thing they're trying to protect against, then all they're succeding in would be slowing down the vehicles. That makes them more dangerous because you can't get to and away from bad stuff as fast and it takes more fuel.
 
JustJacked, if the bulk of your information comes from "The News", I have nothing more to say to you. You're telling me to do my research, I did my fucking research and came up with concrete numbers. You're saying "Durrr, I know this one guy and the military really screwed him over. And uh, this other guy, yeah, he got fucked over, too." Great, a few guys got fucked unfairly, I'll give that to you. But that doesn't call for a generalization such as "The US treats all of its soldiers poorly", because these cases are few and far between.

If you don't wanna search for numbers, fine. I don't care, we can drop this lovely discussion right now. But don't just throw shit out like it's gospel and not back it up with anything.
 
CrazyRussian said:
BTW, to quote that article you posted

"This makeshift armor ended up saving the life of a crew whose vehicle took a direct hit from a rocket-propelled grenade. They say it will take 2½ months to get a new door to replace the one that was damaged. "
Click to expand...


Wow. This is pretty sad that they had to resort to this. ^^^ You are obvialsy not that bright, you cant even see the big picture.


I know the US spends more on their military than any other country, I know they have the best technology, Im not disputing this. What I said, for the last time, is that they dont treat their soldiers with respect. They are treated well on the battle field but when they return they are forgotten.

Im done discussing this. Lets get back to the topic at hand. Start watching the news, talk to soldiers, talk to vets and you will change your attitude.

Oh yeah, and CrazyRussian, if you think that the US treats their military so well then why dont you go and join?
 
JustJacked said:
Wow. This is pretty sad that they had to resort to this. ^^^ You are obvialsy not that bright, you cant even see the big picture.


I know the US spends more on their military than any other country, I know they have the best technology, Im not disputing this. What I said, for the last time, is that they dont treat their soldiers with respect. They are treated well on the battle field but when they return they are forgotten.

Im done discussing this. Lets get back to the topic at hand. Start watching the news, talk to soldiers, talk to vets and you will change your attitude.

Oh yeah, and CrazyRussian, if you think that the US treats their military so well then why dont you go and join?
Click to expand...

You say that the military doesn't care about their soldiers, and to prove it show me an article that states how a humvee built out of scrap parts saved a few soldiers lives. How does that corolate?

I get your point : we don't respect our soldiers when we come back. I disagree. We have a national holiday for our soldiers, we give them generous benefits and we provide them with shelters and health care. That's pretty damn good IMO, but you seem to think otherwise. We'll agree to disagree then, aye?
 
Last edited:
Lestat said:
you enjoying the plat man?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's actually very cool

However, Im a fairly "passionate" guy, and I like to debate stuff a lot...will have to cut down on that, I'm starting to look like an arshole.
 
CrazyRussian said:
I can show you official numbers saying that we spent 8 times more than the nearest country on military in the past few years. "
Click to expand...

If you have such a far better and more superior army, then why are so many US troops dying in Iraq? Surely with such and advanced army you could have taken them out in a few days? no?


CrazyRussian said:
I'm starting to look like an arshole.
Click to expand...

too late on that one, i'm afraid kiddo.
 
Well then I truly apologize...on some other forums I frequent it's possible to have a nice heated discussion on politics without offending the person you're arguing with just because you disagree (vehemently :) )
 
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