Do you guys believe in the pre-emptive strike?

[Yarg!]

Like in a street situation I mean. Say you feel threatened, or the slightest bit threatened, and instead of trying to talk your way out or negotiate, you immediately start a visous assault till your would-be attacker is knocked unconcious or turned into a bloody pile of ground beef? This actually happened to my friend here in Canada, and now hes in alot of legal troubles. He takes Krav Maga, and from what I understand that disicipline and others like it preach non stop about the power of attack first and ask questions later, or attack like crazy, then haul ass. This is what happened. He was outside of a restaurant when this guy was looking at him funny. It was a bad neighborhood. The guy who was looking at him had like 2 guys with him. And so he walks up to my friend and he goes "Nice jacket, can I see it?"(The story changes alot from jacket to watch or belt, etc etc) Ofcourse this rings a bell in my friend's head because no one would say something like that unless its the start of a mugging. Hes like "No" and keeps walking. Now the other guy goes "Don't get cocky with me and steps into my friend's path." Then this happened:

1. My friend knees him as hard as he could straight into the groin
2. The guy bends over to grab his groin
3. My friend grabs him by the hair, and starts kneeing him in the face over and over and over (again the story changes depending on who tells it.. from punches to knees to kicks, but the end result is the same)
4. The guy falls down (probably Koed or dazed)
5. And my friend stomps on his face (jaw, nose, orbital bone) like 7-8 times.

This all happened in the span of like 5-10 seconds. And the guy's friends didn't do shit to him. Now a crowd sees this they gather around, and for some reason, my friend sticks around for the cops to arrive. An ambulance comes- the guy's face is a mess.. theres blood everywhere , and my friend had to go to the station to give a statement. So he doesn't know whats going to happen. Apparently the guy's family is all greiving and shit because he got like his orbital bone shattered, jaw broken, nose broken, massive concussion to the head (don't know exact medical terms) and the guy might lose vision in one eye (once again, different accounts of this guy's medical condition, but one thing they all agree on was the ridiculous amounts of blood around his face). I am pretty sure his family his going to press charges, so my friend is pretty much screwed here. And the guy isn't really my friend, hes more of an accquaintence (sp?) , but I just call him friend for simplicity sakes here.

Striking first is a double edged sword. Because who knows what that guy might have done to my friend if he didn't do what he did. Then again, was he really going to mug him, or could he have talked his way out of it. What if the other guy struck first? I want to know what your guy's opinions are on such matters because this anything can happen out on the streets and its not all happy endings like in the movies.

 

[Fajitas]

Sounds like your friend is screwed....Legal bullshit isn't worth it and now he's probably going to be sued. Sure, I would have probably done the same but I think I would have been smart enough to bolt.

 

[75th]

Self defense is one thing, stomping on a guy's face a dozen times after he is down and out isnt something else.

 

[jrlex]

he might of pushed it too far. he might not have.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Self defense is one thing, stomping on a guy's face a dozen times after he is down and out isnt something else.

amen.


your friend sounds like a fucking girl...had 2 friends with him and has to knee the fucker in the groin? the groin and one hit to the face is enough to teach him a lesson, fuck even once he was grounded just leave, but ur gunna stomp someones face in?

your friend is a fuckhead and deserves whatever comes to him- hes a criminal, a thug, a violent maniac, and is hiding behind this as an excuse to abuse another individual.

 

[1_more_rep]

Self defense is one thing, stomping on a guy's face a dozen times after he is down and out isnt something else.

wise quote of the day. Should be a sticky among many other wise words i have come across on EF.

 

[theoak01]

Im all for pre-emptive strike,If Im threatened or someone makes a gesture to me that a cop would find threatening and use force against then yes I would strike,but only a few times,you dont need to keep beating them,then its no longer self defence

 

[Yarg!]

amen.


your friend sounds like a fucking girl...had 2 friends with him and has to knee the fucker in the groin? the groin and one hit to the face is enough to teach him a lesson, fuck even once he was grounded just leave, but ur gunna stomp someones face in?

your friend is a fuckhead and deserves whatever comes to him- hes a criminal, a thug, a violent maniac, and is hiding behind this as an excuse to abuse another individual.

No no, the two guys that were with the other guy. My "friend" was alone.

 

[BrothaBill]

Ive knocked many a little big men out with a "hey, let me buy you a drink.." while I lean to my right and turn into them with a straight right followed by a left hook if they are still standing and then if they are still up a right uppercut followed by a combination of a right left uppercut until they are falling backwards with a bunch of straight power shots to the ground til their head bounces off the cement. At that point I usually switch to elbows across the nose until they stop moving. All that for stepping on my blue swede shoes, youre friend is justified

 

[Sub-Zero]

No no, the two guys that were with the other guy. My "friend" was alone.

oh shit, well thats different but he still got WAY carried away with the stomping.

 

[silverfish]

If this guy was mugged and beat to hell, we'd be questioning why he didn't act first. It was justified up to the point where the threat was no longer there. The head stomping should be left to the movie stars, it was unnecessary and will probably be his downfall.

 

[Sub-Zero]

If this guy was mugged and beat to hell, we'd be questioning why he didn't act first. It was justified up to the point where the threat was no longer there. The head stomping should be left to the movie stars, it was unnecessary and will probably be his downfall.

exactly like in american history X when the guy wasnt robbing him and the other guy was killed and he just curb stomps him when it was completely unnecessary

 

[pdaddy]

I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.

 

[silverfish]

exactly like in american history X when the guy wasnt robbing him and the other guy was killed and he just curb stomps him when it was completely unnecessary

Exactly the movie I was thinking of at the time.

 

[Snypr]

While the stomping was over the line legally, I think it's easier to say that after the fact. When the action started, how was he to know he wasn't going to be fighting 3 guys? If it happened in a few seconds, I don't think he should have been required to stop and make sure the other two weren't getting in it.
If he had been in the early stages of getting jumped, anything he did would be fair in my mind (again, maybe not legally; that's just my take on it).
I think he was smart to stay also. With the attention he had drawn, he might not have gotten too far before the cops got him. Then he looks real guilty, because the other guy's friends would say your "friend" started it unprovoked, then fled.
Real unfortunate situation,(and he will likely pay for it), but I think he was right.
Note: If you don't want your orbital bone, etc, etc broken, don't mess with strangers.

 

[Area5150]

Striking first is a double edged sword. Because who knows what that guy might have done to my friend if he didn't do what he did. Then again, was he really going to mug him, or could he have talked his way out of it. What if the other guy struck first? I want to know what your guy's opinions are on such matters because this anything can happen out on the streets and its not all happy endings like in the movies.

There's one thing that will always beat a man who is stronger and faster, and that's timing. If you sense your opponent is better than you are, pretend you're in a drag race. Be the first out of the gate to throw the first punch. It's also like a football game. If you want to win, you have to have some serious offense. Wouldn't you rather be playing offense than defense? Hell yes, you would never want to be in a street fight starting out in a defensive mode. I once got clocked by somone I was 10 times stronger and faster than, all because they struck first in swift fashion. That was a good lesson!

In a street situation, the first thing I do is make a "threat assessment." And then I can decide wether to hit first or high tail it. But it's not that simple. I'm always thinking about the law. A best case scenario would be having zero witnesses around. Having lots of witnesses in attendance can be extremely problematic. On a bright and clear sunny day 10 witnesses who are standing right on top of the action will see 10 different things go down. Don't scoff, I've seen that happen.

Your friend made the right call. Wether he was concious of it or not, he made a threat assessment, and he definitely felt his person was in imminent danger. But, he went too far. In California, kicking someone in the face is an assault with a deadly weapon, as it should be. Does your state have the same law?

I'm about ready to say that your friend is in serious trouble, especially civilly. But there are other external factors. First and foremost is what the witnesses say. If they all state that the victim was the aggressor, well then your friend might be liable for squat. Even so, a good lawyer will show that your friend went too far. Then again, your friends lawyer will come back and say that he was in the throes of an adrenaline rush. Does the victim have a record and a history of violence and intimidation? And so on, and so on.

It'll be an interesting case, and a tough one at that. If I was a juror, and assuming everything you stated was matter of fact, I'd vote...drumroll please...I haven't the slightest idea which way I'd go, it's a tough one. Kicking a guy in the face or head is akin to stabbing someone in the chest with a knife.

So do I believe in the pre-emptive strike? Hell yes, but only under the right conditions.

 

[Dunk]

5. And my friend stomps on his face (jaw, nose, orbital bone) like 7-8 times.

your friend learned that from Robert DeNiro in Goodfellas didnt he? When they were fuckin up Billy Bats.

 

[Saintinistic]

He probably wouldve been safe from conviction if he hadnt stomped the downed guys head. Once the initial threat has been eliminated, anything beyond that turns you into the bad ass. We get taught this too, and I do strike first, but with witnesses you have to play the crowd, and their view of the events.

I recommend to anyone striking first to hold your hands up like you are non threatening. To witnesses you look like the one whos about to be bashed.Then attack and as soon as the villain falls, stop and call out for someone to call the police, and phone them yourself. As a bouncer I do this before I strike, anyone who sees it saw that I was fearful of my safety. Self defense can be about prevention too, not just reaction of a cure.

My thoughts to your friend for these fuckwits getting what they deserved, and they being seen as the victims.

Long life those who stand up to the plate and take out the garbage.

 

[H_T_]

you mean a sucker punch?

 

[Saintinistic]

If that works, yes. I dont throw punches unless provoked, so I go first. If im going to get jumped like the guy in this story, yes, I would sucker them. No honour amoung thieves as they say. Get no respect, give none.

I think thats fair.

 

[H_T_]

no one ever seems to want to fuck with me.......

 

[Saintinistic]

For me its an occupational hazard. Though no action for about 2 months now, which is fine by my aging body.

 

[JayC9]

brutal! ye shall reap what you sow