Do you approve a first-strike US nuclear attack against China if they invade Taiwan?

[3Vandoo]

The US will never take the chance to put millions of lifes in play just for a damn fuckin island. You know like me that China has intercontinental nuclear missiles just like the uS (not as much of course). Like Mao once said: "There will always be a chinese alive to see the craters of your bombs".....

BTW tell me. What was worst: Chili under Pinochet (or Cuba under Batista) or China under the current gov. ?

Yes they will because it will send a bad message to US allies around the world, that the US will not help them in situation requiring their help.

Chile Under Pino, HELL THANX GOD ALLENDE WAS A incompetent!
aaaaaahhhhhhh shut up with Allende pleeeeaseeeeee

 

[spongebob]

sponge,

i think hes reffering to the oil reserves in alaska.

Actually, my dad was telling me tonight Alberta, a province in Canada, has more oil reserves then all of Saudi Arabia. But, the oil is mixed in sand, so the total extraction cost comes to something like 16 bucks a barrel. USD.

thats right, but its not actually crude oil reserves. its called bituminous sands, its sand that is soaked with bitumen. an oil like substance. that falls under synthetic fuels, and yes its more costly due to the process of extraction and refining. but i thought it would be more than 16$, so thats good. there are two recovery plants near alberta that produce about 200k barrels of synthetic oil a day. i cant tell you what a single site might produce in the US but overall US daily production is about 7.5million barrels a day. and i know one refinery where i live that refines about 450k barrels a day. that puts it in perspective compared to those two plants.

proven crude oil reserves are about 1trillion barrels worldwide.saudi arabia has the largest proven crude oil reserves at about 265billion barrels. and it is estimated that the unprovens in saudi may be as high as 1trillion barrels.

but the estimated tar sands is 2.3tril barrels worldwide but im not sure what alberta has, i think between 1 and 1.5 tril barrels.

so this talk about running out of oil soon is a little premature.

 

[buddy28]

interesting.....u seem to know alot about it

 

[Double_F'N_R]

Bro's - you know how many times I see these "secret Pentagon reports" and crap? I am not gonna really comment. This country (USA) needs to flex a little muscle regardless of whether this "secret" report had an credence whatsoever. Why is China building up it's nuclear forces at such a mad rate? Why is N. Korea so hell bent on making a Taepo-dongIII missile capable of reaching the US? Why are fuckheads like Sadaam Hussein and others in the mid-east working like mofo's to go nuclear? To use againt the United States and the rest of the free world. Get a clue - we need to protect ourselves. Those people don't enjoy the luxuries of a "free" society as we do - they hate us cause they ain't us. We are the strongest country in the world, Mankind is a fuckin ego trip - kinda like who'd got the bigger dick but instead who's got the bigger missile. Don't blame Bush. Like sopmeone said in an earlier post - every presidency has had similar plans depending on who we regarded as a "threat" to our national security. Just so happens that nowadays there's a lot more crazy's than there were 20 years ago.

No offense to anyone, everyones entitiled to their own opinion, and I will respect anyones opinion, but shit - don't believe everything you read - but if you must - go to www.newsmax.com and read about how it's been leaked by a chinese defector their whole plan on launching an all out nuclear attack on the USA by 2015 or sooner depending on when they have the capability.

Laterz

 

[GaryWary]

i would have to agree, but things arent done overnight. we didnt go to sleep dec. 6th 1941 and wake the next day with germany having conquered most of europe and about to kick englands ass and japan inside china. there were numerous events that led up to this point that if were challenged early on may have prevented WW2.

in 1931 the japanese occupied northern china. did we care? no.
in 1933, germany withdrew from the league of nations and began re-arming in 1935. did we care? no.
in 1922, mussolini introduced fascism in italy.

little things can lead to big things.

just as germany and japan had a secrete pact, so to can china and another country. so although we may believe that china is not a major territorial threat, you never know who is conspiring to do what at any given time.

these are just counterpoints for discussion, i believe in isolationism. only when attacked, attack.

one last point, when japan occupied manchuria in 1931, china appealed to the league of nations, which found japan at fault but imposed no sanctions and took no action. japan just resigned from the league.

japans defiance supposedly encourage mussolini to seize power in italy and install fascism. it breeds.

Dude, where are you getting your facts? Germany was about to kick Britains ass? I hardly think so. I know this will be hard for you to take in - but America helped in world war 2 it did not win world war 2. The Allies were kicking germany's ass before you guys decided to help. America helped. America was a big help. Russia was actually the biggest help. Russia inflicted more damage on Germany than anyone. The war could not have been won withour Russia.

Please explain this American arrogance? I don't like it. I am not anti-american, I but American product.. but why do you have to be so Rambo like? You lost Vietnam yet you have made scores of films where you win?! You made a film recently where you won the second world war - Pearl Harbour. I know America likes to think it is the center of the universe but it is not. Germany was not kicking our ass. The Allies were kicking it's ass. America helped to bring an end to the war. But they were still part of the Alliance. Russia did most if you wanna talk significance. America was the only country to gain economically from the war - a 75% increase in living standards in the period after the war. America (the country) was never attacked. The Russains, the French and the British suffered the greatest losses.

 

[GaryWary]

so this talk about running out of oil soon is a little premature.

Your facts are right. But 40 years is the current estimate for running out of oil. It is estimated that we have used half of the world's oil. Hydrogen is the future.

 

[spongebob]

Dude, where are you getting your facts? Germany was about to kick Britains ass? I hardly think so. I know this will be hard for you to take in - but America helped in world war 2 it did not win world war 2. The Allies were kicking germany's ass before you guys decided to help. America helped. America was a big help. Russia was actually the biggest help. Russia inflicted more damage on Germany than anyone. The war could not have been won withour Russia.

gary this is twice now that you are confused. i did not say that america won the war, i said at the time of pearl harbor, germany was kicking your ass. their airforce was bombing the hell out of you.

in 1941, under the lend lease act, the US provided you with arms to fight, cause you were broke and couldnt pay for it with cash anymore. just think if we hadnt done that.

the US was the main supplier of oil to the allies, considering your tanks and airplanes needed fuel to run, just think if the US hadnt done that.
other than that, yes it was a joint effort, i never said it wasnt.

The Russains, the French and the British suffered the greatest losses.

the US is too badass to suffer like that.

 

[spongebob]

Your facts are right. But 40 years is the current estimate for running out of oil. It is estimated that we have used half of the world's oil. Hydrogen is the future.

gary, ive seen that estimate, and ive seen other estimates. guess what? its only an estimate. its projections based on our current usage and subsequent projected use. its fuzzy math.

show one geologist who estimates 40 years, he'll probaly be chairman of the board on one of these alternative fuels' company. everybody has an agenda gary.

now, on to some facts.......

worlds proven crude oil reserves,
end of 1980 - 659,900,000,000 barrels.....ok
end of 1990 - 1,009,000,000,000 barrels.....uhm
end of 2000 - 1,046,400,000,000 barrels.....wow, its increasing.

saudi arabia has 265,000,000,000 barrels, and it is estimated that its total capacity is 1,000,000,000,000. just in saudi.

and now we have discovered tar sands, an oil like substance, and it is estimated that there is about 2,300,000,000,000 barrels. more than twice as much as proven crude oil reserves.

and now there are geologist are estimating that there could be up to another trillion in the caspian sea and russia. and there are other places too.

so how can you estimate something will be used up if you havent determined where the full amount of that something is.

now this is where the hybrid car comes into play. if we continue to reduce our consumption of oil, dont you think that the amount that i listed up above will last longer, just another kink in the estimate game.

im not argueing that we are not eventually goona be less dependent on oil or that we are not gonna be using hydrogen power. but everytime a "new" alternative idea comes out, people jump all over it. the first electric cars, hydro-power, wind power, solar power. nonthing is as efficient as oil, and probaly wont be for some time.

 

[the nature boy]

Bro's - you know how many times I see these "secret Pentagon reports" and crap? I am not gonna really comment. This country (USA) needs to flex a little muscle regardless of whether this "secret" report had an credence whatsoever. Why is China building up it's nuclear forces at such a mad rate? Why is N. Korea so hell bent on making a Taepo-dongIII missile capable of reaching the US? Why are fuckheads like Sadaam Hussein and others in the mid-east working like mofo's to go nuclear? To use againt the United States and the rest of the free world. Get a clue - we need to protect ourselves. Those people don't enjoy the luxuries of a "free" society as we do - they hate us cause they ain't us. We are the strongest country in the world, Mankind is a fuckin ego trip - kinda like who'd got the bigger dick but instead who's got the bigger missile. Don't blame Bush. Like sopmeone said in an earlier post - every presidency has had similar plans depending on who we regarded as a "threat" to our national security. Just so happens that nowadays there's a lot more crazy's than there were 20 years ago.

No offense to anyone, everyones entitiled to their own opinion, and I will respect anyones opinion, but shit - don't believe everything you read - but if you must - go to www.newsmax.com and read about how it's been leaked by a chinese defector their whole plan on launching an all out nuclear attack on the USA by 2015 or sooner depending on when they have the capability.

Laterz

to play devils advocate here.

The reason why n korea and china re building up their arsenals is because the US is their enemy. Why would they not? Should they not try and protect themselves? Imagine how the chinse feel. They've got to be scared as hell over our superiority. So that's whey they have such a large land army compared to ours. It's because they have too. It's mostly for show, like the feathers of a peacock. In reality war between china and the US will be nuclear, and we'll win it if it came to it.

And seriously, no offense to you, but I'd rather get my news from Highlights Magazine rather than from newsmax. That place is so not objective.

 

[buddy28]

Ive got alittle good news for the thread.

I talked to my buddy in china - 40 year old ex patriate Living in China for the past 10 years.

Im not saying this guys opinion is the end all be all, but he said theres a slim chance of a chinese invasion of taiwan. Apparently Taiwan is promoting China's "one country" policy and alot of Taiwan business's are relocating to the mainland due to its economic stability.

Who knows. Things can change. Mabey its bullshit government propaganda to pacify mainlanders for an nonplanned chinese invasion of taiwan. I dont know a whole lot about this, but its usefull info anyway.

oh yea, and did alittle research on chinas military capabilities. The majority of their military equipment (bombers, fighters, naval vessels, Air to Air misslies, ect) is composed of pre 1970 hardware. Making the majority of it obsolete. The government has apparently been aggressivily pushing economic development at the expense of military equipment buildup.

Its inevitable theyll start rearming soon, but 'experts' predict their military wont be in any shape to alter existing South East Asian stability for another decade.

who knows.