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Dnp & Ckd

brownpaperbag04

Active member
I've read a few places (which had exactly the same sentences of info) that you shouldn't use DNP on CKD because you'll get quite tired and have low blood glucose levels. Does anyone have any other information about this? What are the risks of having low blood glucose levels other than fatigue, blurry vision, etc.? Links to some good literature would be greatly appreciated.

Karma for good info as always...
 
I've done some reading and apparently Hypoglycemia is the main risk. It's basiclly being tired and feeling like shit...which you already do when you take DNP. Anyone have other info?
 
i asked this same question a while back.......was advised not to combine the two by most peeps that responded.
 
I believe a good part of the reasoning is because DNP is also more effective while ingesting carbs. Basically it's course of action is partially interrupting a part of the Krebs cycle, which begins with glucose. You leave out the glucose, and the DNP can't do it's nasty job.
However, because of this (and also the normally short duration of a DNP cycle) it is very beneficial to carb-deplete before the beginning of the cycle, to reduce muscle glycogen stores and theoretically shift the fuel for your body to fat and not muscle.
DNP has definitely worked the best for me when I carb-depleted beforehand and also when I ate moderate carbs (no more than around 40% - anymore than that and I just got too hot). On a CKD diet, DNP definitely makes you fell extra crappy.
My best luck was also when I took a lower dose (200-400mg/day) for a longer period (as much as 21 days) instead of a higher dose (600-800mg/day) for a shorter period. I also played it by ear - if I felt extra crappy I would lower the dose or skip a day. Be careful with the stuff, it's nasty. I personally won't ever use it again, although it worked. There are too many better alternatives.

Also - you mentioned something about hypoglycemia being a "risk" when using DNP on a CKD. Isn't that what you are trying to achieve (and in a sense, surpass) when trying to get in ketosis?
 
Don't remember where the article came from, but it's good...

DIETARY RECOMMENDATIONS:

1. Carb deplete for 3 days prior to DNP because DNP will take a good 2-3 days to deplete the body's glycogen stores before it can efficiently burn stored fat.

2. Once on DNP eat an isocaloric diet (33% prot, 33% fat, 33% carbs) and keep the calories at around maintenance level. Restricting carbs will put the body in a state of hypoglycemia and can be dangerous to the health and also the mental well being. DNP also mimics insulin in that it shuttles glucose into the cells in the absence of glucose. This is great for fat burning, but when carb intake is too low the blood glucose can be at dangerously low levels as well. a more experienced user can switch up this ratio a bit. Either way it won't make a huge difference because it's mostly about the total calorie consumption.

This is what I’m proposing to be the optimal DNP diet (for a high dose short cycle(s) and the end of a low dose extended cycle only):

50% carbs, 35% protein, 15% fat. It’s not a misprint; carbs are essential for DNP to work properly. Keep in mind that it’s only the percentage that changes and not the total calories. From this point it will get a bit complicated, but read over it a few times and you will get the gist of it. I’ll also try to keep it as simple as possible.

When fatty acids are broken down they need to be fed into an energy cycle for a complete break down so that more can be broken down later. The beginning of this cycle is called the citric acid cycle. Fats enter the citric acid cycle as a 2-carbon molecule called acetate and to start off this cycle it needs to bind to another 2-carbon molecule called oxaloacetate. Without enough oxaloacetate this cycle cannot proceed. With little oxaloacetate this cycle is slowed down, thus fat burning is slowed down. Where does oxaloacetate come from? Several sources, but the main one is from pyruvate, the end product of the first step of glucose (carbohydrate) metabolism. Without enough glucose in the blood, fat burning becomes very inefficient.

This is not to say the more carbs we eat the more pyruvate we can generate, therefore the more fat is burned. We only need adequate levels of pyruvate to supply the citric acid cycle of the necessary starting material for fat to enter, and then it will eventually proceed to be completely oxidized in the electron transport chain.

Don’t worry about eating too many carbs while on DNP because these carbs cannot be stored and are immediately used for fuel to try to replenish cellular ATP. While keeping the calorie level at maintenance level, it would be most beneficial to eat about 55% calories from carbs, 35% protein and 10% fat (mostly unsaturated). It may be optimal for fat burning to raise the carbs a bit more, but the protein should be high enough so that muscle catabolism is kept at a minimum when DNP creates the huge calorie deficit in the body.

The least effective form of dieting while on a DNP cycle is a fat diet, or ketogenic diet, but the high amounts of fat helps to slow gastric emptying, so you feel more satisfied for a longer period of time. This is one reason why I first recommended the isocaloric diet to beginners who may have trouble controlling their appetite while on DNP.

:supercool
 
Balls,
DNP actually works better without carbs.
DNP uncoupples the ETC, the last step in glucose metabolism (the biggest producer of ATP by far). Glucose is still metabolized in the first steps giving you 4 ATP. If you dont give the body extra carbs, the body attacks fat stores in desperation to get ATP out of the glucose there. Carbs that are eaten are all burned first very quickly (taking away from fat metabolism) and the H+ released are in high number, making you hot.
 
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