diet/protein

[jeremys]

how much protein and how many calories are 'enough' to continuously gain strength? i mean, compared to bodyweight. recently i've been getting 160-180g of protein a day, and i'm guessing about 3500 cals. but i weigh 240

 

[jeremys]

i ran a search but every topic i came across on this board said to eat 'enough'...never really came across a suggested amount

 

[spatts]

jeremy, I'll give you my long drawn out response, cut as short as possible. I'm pretty opinionated about diet, in general. I have been eating 6 clean meals most of my life, and was even on keto a couple times as a kid. For most of my 120 pound and over life, I have gotten between 300-400g of protein a day. I know this seems excessive to some, but my body just doesn't handle carbs well. That in mind, I see the most strength from slow burning carbs. In fact, if I don't eat oatmeal before I lift, I'm worthless. Some people have lucky socks, I have oatmeal. The only carbs that don't knock me out are sweet taters, oats, and certain beans.

Regarding calories, you need "enough." I DO understand why this would seem vague, so I'll try to explain my definition of "enough." I try to eat pretty close to my AMR. I figure my BMR...what I burn every day without raising a finger, at 1400. I use 10x my lean mass (or so), and I use that number because the equation works for me...no other reason. Then, I add to that what I will be burning for the day, to arrive at my AMR. Then, I try to eat that much. I still restrict my complex carbs to early day, and fibrous to evening, with the exception of the very important post workout carbs. When lifting for strength, I think carbs for RECOVERY have to be considered as highly as carbs for workout energy. I DO NOT believe that weight moves weight. I believe that concrete supports more weight than the same amount of mud. If you want 300 pounds of leverage because it will help you lift more, I'm behind you 100%....but make it productive weight. All the extra fat is just more to lift. I personally feel stronger when I'm leaner, because I have more SPEED. I still eat clean, and eat alot...but not more than my AMR.

I know 300-400 isn't necessary for the average person, and I do believe that, due to a childhood of keto, my body is more efficient at using protein for fuel. For most people, 2x lean mass is the high end of necessary. I also carb rotate. In other words, I eat the same amount of protein and fat every day, and then on training days I eat more carbs, and on non training days I eat less.

This is a high day (training day):
http://home.swbell.net/arkaynen/bulking.htm

This is a low day (non-training day):
http://home.swbell.net/arkaynen/cutting.htm

*I don't train at 6 AM anymore, and my supplements have changed*

Did that answer your question? ...and other questions you didn't ask? LOL

 

[jeremys]

wow. quite a response. thanks...

yes, i do have one question in mind..

since i'm young, will that allow me to not eat as much as i need to? i mean, will i recover better and faster because i'm younger?

if i wanted to eat that much protein, i'd have to buy my own food. and that means i'd have to get a job. but i cant get a job because i cant drive yet..and what little money i have i want to buy equipment with (fury or phenom, no idea which is better)

 

[jeremys]

because of the reasons in my last response, im hoping powerlifting is more CNS than anything else...of course i'd still like to get bigger and stronger, mostly good weight, but that may have to wait until i'm on my own

 

[spatts]

You will recover faster than me because you are A: Young, and B: Have more test in you than I do. Well...most of the time.

What is your weight, and appx lean mass (if you know it)? Are you wanting to grow more, or are you just asking from a strength perspective?

 

[jeremys]

haha..

well im about 240, guessing around 25%bf

*sigh* i used to have decent size but then the food went so the size and shape did also. weight stayed the same so i gained fat and lost LBM

i would love to gain more mass, but i would need more strength if i wanted to be good at all.

i weigh 240 and bench under 300 at the moment. this may have been a myth i've heard, but could my tendons and stuff be weaker than normal because i'm young, and that keeps me from hitting higher numbers? probably not...im probably just looking for an excuse

 

[princessofdarkness]

how much protein and how many calories are 'enough' to continuously gain strength? i mean, compared to bodyweight. recently i've been getting 160-180g of protein a day, and i'm guessing about 3500 cals. but i weigh 240

if you weigh 240 you should be consuming about 500gms of protien a day....2 grams for every pound of body weight. complex carbs and good fats like flax or CLA or MCT.....that's how i eat. with your body weight (if you want to stay there) you should comsume about 3000 calories a day, but 2000 should be protien calories......that's my opinion for what it's worth

 

[IrishPower]

500 is extremely excessive for someone who weighs 240 especially at 25% bodyfat and is powerlifting.

that is as much as a pro bodybuilder may take in who is loaded up on juice.

i question the logic of this. this sounds like it came directly out of a musclemag that survives by selling ad space to supplement providers.

jeremy: do yourself a favor.. just try and eat 4 - 6 healthy meals a day. if you need extra protein, the cheapest source is milk, skim if you don't want the fat. i did this when i was your age and made outstanding gains.

/irish

 

[Deciever1]

they key to my recent growth and strength gains are from the almighty hamburger and hotdog

 

[princessofdarkness]

500 is extremely excessive for someone who weighs 240 especially at 25% bodyfat and is powerlifting.

that is as much as a pro bodybuilder may take in who is loaded up on juice.

i question the logic of this. this sounds like it came directly out of a musclemag that survives by selling ad space to supplement providers.

jeremy: do yourself a favor.. just try and eat 4 - 6 healthy meals a day. if you need extra protein, the cheapest source is milk, skim if you don't want the fat. i did this when i was your age and made outstanding gains.

/irish

this is not out of a mag, i eat like this and make awesome gains, it's a little hard on your tummy at first but it works, really. and when i'm juiced i bump up my carb intake, that's it!!!! bty, OUCH @ your comments on me!!!!!!!

 

[DOM]

jeremys

I'd try to get 250g protein per day at your bodyweightk, and up your caloric intake by about 500 per day. That would be enough to make strength and size gains.

My recent diet has been eat a meal every three hours whether I'm hungry or not, and get at least 2 protein shakes in after every workout -- and this has worked better than any calorie counting or protein counting ever has for me.

 

[spatts]

Yes, 500 is excessive. It's 2x LEAN mass. A 500 pound obese woman doesn't need 1000 grams of protein! You don't need to feed the fat.

 

[IrishPower]

p.o.d:

my comments were not meant to be an insult to you. they do look like they may have come out that way. for that i apologize.

jerermy is a young lifter without a lot of money.

i have been in this game for a long time AND i have spents TONS of money every type of supplement under the sun. In fact, I use a LOT of protein in my training now BUT

1. i can afford it
2. i don't have time to eat 4 - 6 a day

So, it is my opinion that he should NOT waste his precious money on this stuff until he is a more advanced lifter.

/irish

 

[princessofdarkness]

p.o.d:

my comments were not meant to be an insult to you. they do look like they may have come out that way. for that i apologize.

jerermy is a young lifter without a lot of money.

i have been in this game for a long time AND i have spents TONS of money every type of supplement under the sun. In fact, I use a LOT of protein in my training now BUT

1. i can afford it
2. i don't have time to eat 4 - 6 a day

So, it is my opinion that he should NOT waste his precious money on this stuff until he is a more advanced lifter.

/irish

point and match Irish......i have the money to spend and the experience in the gym......your absolutely right

 

[jeremys]

i suppose i could scrape up some cash to buy some protein, or i can get some poor shmuck to 'sponsor' me. lol....

i've had great gains just w/ protein and lots of food..but then the money went. if i spend the rest on that, i wont have enough cash for say, a shirt or a squat rack or more plates.

 

[natural-mike]

Like Irish said, ......"MILK"

Don't forget the all mighty milk (skim of course). The bodybuilders of yester-year consumed mostly milk and cottage cheese. They didn't have Designer and Optimum.

Not that we are talking bodybuilding here, but I'm saying.

I think supplements are effective and have there place but people tend to get too caught up in them and forget the real food (unless of course time constraints). Its almost like machines in a commercial gym, people get too caught up with machines and forget about the old school barbell.

Thats just my philosophy, but then again I'm a shmuck with bad tendons.

Later tater,
El Natural

 

[jeremys]

i think im screwed on this whole diet thing. i did get a lot of milk today, 5 little cartons at school. im lucky to get 160g of protein a day these days. the rest of my food is crap. i would like to gain strength and lose some weight, if thats possible. but i guess i cant now until i get a job so i can buy me some food

 

[spatts]

Chocolate milk and mac and cheese would do it. I think Hannibal lives on Chocolate milk and hamburger helper.

...did I say that?

MS once referred to protein as "an expensive way to get your carbs." Eat up.

 

[Hannibal]

Chocolate milk and mac and cheese would do it. I think Hannibal lives on Chocolate milk and hamburger helper.

...did I say that?

 

[princessofdarkness]

i think im screwed on this whole diet thing. i did get a lot of milk today, 5 little cartons at school. im lucky to get 160g of protein a day these days. the rest of my food is crap. i would like to gain strength and lose some weight, if thats possible. but i guess i cant now until i get a job so i can buy me some food

what about eggs? they are cheap, not a big source of protien but good anyways, full of lecithin, fat and protien. try a couple dozen a day, hell buy your self a chicken!!!!!!!

 

[jeremys]

i love eggs, just sometimes my parents dont buy much food, so about half the time i dont eat good

 

[princessofdarkness]

Yes, 500 is excessive. It's 2x LEAN mass. A 500 pound obese woman doesn't need 1000 grams of protein! You don't need to feed the fat.

you yourself eat twice as much protien as body weight per day, i wasn't talking about a 500 pound obese woman, i'm talking someone who is physically fit. it takes alot for your body to turn protien into fat, it's the carbs that synthesize quickly. i don't understand, if you weigh 120 and are taking in as much protien as you say, you do 2x as well.

 

[princessofdarkness]

i love eggs, just sometimes my parents dont buy much food, so about half the time i dont eat good

your a big boy!!!! i wouln't want to have to feed you either hehehehe

 

[jeremys]

your a big boy!!!! i wouln't want to have to feed you either hehehehe

lol..thanks for posting that. i finally understand their side of all of it...

 

[spatts]

I eat that much protein because I have an insulin problem with carbs. I'm sorry, I thought I made that clear. I recently started using R-ala, which decreases my sensitivity to carbs, and have cut WAY back on protein intake as a result.

Actually, carbs don't turn into fat all that easily either. What carbs do is increase insulin which causes your body to metabolize fat less efficiently.

 

[bigokie]

Eat as many good meals a day as you can, hopefully around 4. Then try to drink at least half a gallon of milk a day. A full gallon if you can handle it. Then add in the magic ingredient, cereal! Lots of carbs and calories. If your gaining fat on this just up your active recovery workouts.

 

[jeremys]

hell yes. great idea. i love raisin bran. i could use a lot more fiber

 

[spatts]

...and 2 scoops of (high glycemic) plump juicy raisins.

 

[Hannibal]

Eat as many good meals a day as you can, hopefully around 4. Then try to drink at least half a gallon of milk a day. A full gallon if you can handle it. Then add in the magic ingredient, cereal! Lots of carbs and calories. If your gaining fat on this just up your active recovery workouts.

So if I want to eat more than I should I just need to do more work. It seems so simple.