Dextrose in post-workout shake on keto?

[Seashell]

I'm not actually on a Keto diet, but I keep my carbs <= 40 grams a day with a re-feed once a week.

How am I supposed to add the dextrose (40g) in my post-workout shake without doubling my carb count for the day? Or does it not really count in the post-workout shake?

Do you people on Keto have dextrose/maltodextrin in your shake or just the whey powder + water?

 

[ohashi]

Always spike post-workout! Keto or no keto, you need the spike! Not only will it help you get the most much-needed amino acids to your starving, broken down muscles, but after a workout, your body is in a state of catabolism! Cortisol is running rampant, destroying all your attempts at the hard-earned gains. You need to whoop it like there is no tomorrow! With your muscles depleted of glucose as they are, you shouldn't even get kicked out of keto, but even if you do, getting back in will be a sinch.

Spike! Spike! Spike!

 

[sawastea]

I believe immediately post workout it's fine to raise your insulin levels

 

[Seashell]

Cool, thanks guys! Going to Bulk Barn to buy some dextrose!

 

[Zagreus]

Sweat tarts are also an awsome dextrose maltose mix. Also I have used 40 g of dextrose / maltose carbs post workout while on TKD. It took approximatly 3 hours to get back into Ketosis. If you are concerned with staying in Ketosis, try to limit your daily carb intake to no more than 15 grams. Also you may want to look at Mr. X's TKD program for some extra insight on tweaking your own program. I have made a TKD worksheet in excel, pm me if you want it.

Lastly, I partially agree with ohashi. It really depends on your goals. Most people have plenty of muscle glygogen by day 2 and 3 while on CKD no carb days.

Zag-

 

[Fat_Sumo]

I'm not actually on a Keto diet, but I keep my carbs <= 40 grams a day with a re-feed once a week.

How am I supposed to add the dextrose (40g) in my post-workout shake without doubling my carb count for the day? Or does it not really count in the post-workout shake?

Do you people on Keto have dextrose/maltodextrin in your shake or just the whey powder + water?

Always consume dextrose or dext/malto shake with with whey protein immediatley after your workout. Don't count these carbs toward daily intake as they will be used up immediatley to refill muscle glycogen.

 

[ZKaudio]

i disagree, when on keto, i NEVER consume dextrose. If any carbs, I make sure they're fibrous or low gi in nature. The point of ckd is to remove insulin from the system. Why, in that case, would you want to reintroduce it into the system? The point of keto is KETOSIS. Meaning your body will be utilizing fats for its primary energy source. When you take in 40 or so g's of dextrose, you're going to refill some muscle glycogen no matter when you take it. Your body is simply going to excrete glucagon as soon as it realizes that you aren't taking in anymore carbs... as a result, the stored carbs will be used for energy. I do believe it should be used on a refeed day. IT's just that I believe when doing somethign as drastic as a ckd, you should go all the way.

 

[Fat_Sumo]

i disagree, when on keto, i NEVER consume dextrose. If any carbs, I make sure they're fibrous or low gi in nature. The point of ckd is to remove insulin from the system. Why, in that case, would you want to reintroduce it into the system? The point of keto is KETOSIS. Meaning your body will be utilizing fats for its primary energy source. When you take in 40 or so g's of dextrose, you're going to refill some muscle glycogen no matter when you take it. Your body is simply going to excrete glucagon as soon as it realizes that you aren't taking in anymore carbs... as a result, the stored carbs will be used for energy. I do believe it should be used on a refeed day. IT's just that I believe when doing somethign as drastic as a ckd, you should go all the way.

I guess we are agreeing to disagree then. IMO dextrose/whey should be conusumed after everyworkout without fail. I have experienced amazing results with this approach.
IMO the benefits of proper post workout nutrition (dex and whey) by far outweigh any benefits of not consuming p/w shake.
The catabolic environment present in the body after training can be detrimental to progress, and p/w nutrition will offset this catabolism. P/W nutrition IMO is also needed to refill much needed muscle glycogen to allow for continued intense training sessions throughout the week.
The small amount of fat calories that might be burned by not consuming carbs p/w pales in comparison to the HUGE benefits of proper post workout nutrition.
I personally can handle 40g of dextrose and 50g whey and still remain in ketosis.
I will agree that on CKD almost all of carb sources should come from fibrous green veggies and the rest will be trace amount occuring in the foods you eat. But after training you need simple carbs sources such as dextrose or a combination of dextrose/maltodextrin to drive the amino acids from whey into the muscle tissue. These simple post workout carbs will do nothing to replenish liver glycogen and only refill muscle glycogen.
And lets say for arguments sake that you are kicked out of ketosis (which you won't be if you are training intensly and know what you can handle) it will be transient and you will return to ketosis rapidly.

The point of a CKD is not to remove insulin from the system. It is to control insulin and use it at the appropriate times (hence the word cyclical) such as p/w to offset catabolism and on refeeds to replenish glycogen and increase leptin.

This is my .02 cents.
Cheers
Fat_Sumo

 

[Fat_Sumo]

Alot of the top minds on the ketogenic subject, inlight of new research, no longer believe that it is ketosis that makes the diet work but more the caloric deficit that is created and the refeeds that aid to replenish leptin levels.

 

[ZKaudio]

the C in CKD, meaning cyclical... is referring to the refeed day. Personally, I get kicked out of keto even with too many green beans.... approx 20g´s very low gi net carbs... If i were to consume dextrose, it would defeat the purpose of a keto diet and i´d just run a zone caloric deficit on a 33-33-33. I recognize the possibility of losing muscle on a ckd and as a result consider it the most drastic of cutting diets. Not to discount anything else you said, you clearly understand the concept.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Alot of the top minds on the ketogenic subject, inlight of new research, no longer believe that it is ketosis that makes the diet work but more the caloric deficit that is created and the refeeds that aid to replenish leptin levels.

There is the fact that when in ketosis, one expells alot of unburned fat calories int he form of ketones in one's urine, feces, breath, sweat, etc. Ketosis AIDS in creating the calorie deficit by its very nature.

 

[Fat_Sumo]

IMO the amounts expelled throught these methods would have no significant impact. Alot of research indicates that just because you are turning the ketostix the darkest purple possible does not mean that you are burning more fat. In fact it is better to be showing trace amounts of ketones.(stix are not good measurement of ketosis IMO though either)

 

[Deleted member 33117]

No signifigant impact? I think not. The impact is huge when one takes into account the ketones expelled of the course of a month, and the corrisponding fat calories they represent.

 

[Fat_Sumo]

I stand corrected. Was just doing some reading and and the number of calories lost in the urine as ketones amounts to approximately 100 calories at the most, adding in those excreted throught the breath and through other sources it may be a little higher. Now for one day this is not much but over a period of a month (as you pointed out) can have a significant impact.

Thanks for the info BBF.

I found this very interesting.

" Higher levels of urinary ketones seem to be indicative of slower fat loss. Individuals who maintain trace ketosis seem to lose fat more efficiently although there is no research examining this phenomenon. A possible reason is this: high levels of ketones in the blood stream raise insulin slightly and block the release of free fatty acids from fat cells. This seems to imply that higher levels of ketones will slow fat mobilization."

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Interesting, but again not real research, and this could vary from individual to individual. Where did this paragraph come from? Ketones do not cause an insulin response to my knowledge though. If they did, it could be an issue, though maybe not. The slightly elevated insulin level in a state of ketosis could lower blood glucose levels slightly, thus requiring the body to rely more on ketones as a fuel source. On the other hand, it could block the release of fatty acids. Its debatable. There is some evidence that deeper ketosis does increase fat lose in some individuals, but not all. None the less, this is still interesting, and worth looking into.

 

[Fat_Sumo]

This came from lyle Macdonlds " ketogenic diet", this is news to me also, thats why I found it so interesting and had to post it. I missed that the first time I read it through.

 

[Seashell]

I don't have access to a scale... is 40 g of dextrose equivalent to 1/4 cup? I did a "google" search and that's what I've come up with...

 

[HANSEL]

the C in CKD, meaning cyclical... is referring to the refeed day. Personally, I get kicked out of keto even with too many green beans.... approx 20g´s very low gi net carbs... If i were to consume dextrose, it would defeat the purpose of a keto diet

 

[ZKaudio]

hansel,
he's so hot right now,
hansel.