Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Deca and gyno

T

toyosuprarz

New member
*I have searched and found no results* As of now, I am 2 weeks into my Deca cycle, and I notice my nipples are already puffy and sore. I was wondering what anti-e would do the think in getting my chest/nipples back to normal. Should I just take some 20mg Novadex pills, or perhaps find a product of the AG guys website. If I choose AG guys, which one should I get. It seems like there are too many to choose from, and I don't know which would get ride of the gyno best. Thanks in advance.
 
If you're running deca without test then dostinex is the answer. Nolva will only bind to oestrogen receptors and will do nothing for deca gyno. Deca gyno is caused by prolactin and progesterone. If you're running test with your deca then you'd be best to cover both oestrogen and progesterone.

Dostinex is also known as Cabaser in the UK.

Why didn't/doesn't someone make BionicBC's Dostinex thread a sticky?
 
Blut Wump said:
If you're running deca without test then dostinex is the answer. Nolva will only bind to oestrogen receptors and will do nothing for deca gyno. Deca gyno is caused by prolactin and progesterone. If you're running test with your deca then you'd be best to cover both oestrogen and progesterone.

Dostinex is also known as Cabaser in the UK.

Why didn't/doesn't someone make BionicBC's Dostinex thread a sticky?
Click to expand...
there is no such thing as prolactin and progesterone gyno

testosterone compounds can very often be found in fake deca
 
Güclü_oglan said:
there is no such thing as prolactin and progesterone gyno

testosterone compounds can very often be found in fake deca
Click to expand...
No progest caused gyno? Do you have anything to back this up. I've never had progest gyno and I have no real proof it's real but that seems to be the common belief. So put us up some evidence. Not calling you out just interested.
 
ruggermu said:
No progest caused gyno? Do you have anything to back this up. I've never had progest gyno and I have no real proof it's real but that seems to be the common belief. So put us up some evidence. Not calling you out just interested.
Click to expand...
i'll dig in my archive later where they tried but couldn't develope enlargement of the glands without estrogen present in rats and pigs

but it's hard to prove that an old myth is not true since the theory is taken out of the air and people are spreading it, i've looked alot for it but i'm empty handed on evidences that backs up that gynocomastia can occur with no estradiol present
 
It is accepted that oestrogen needs also to be present for progesterone-induced gyno. A-dex would be better than Nolva, however, since Nolva only binds to the oestrogen receptors rather than reducing oestrogen. Proviron is another alternative for the same reason: aromatase inhibiter to reduce the oestrogen. The body does apparently have pathways to produce oestrogen from deca and, in some, this is sufficient to trigger the gyno.

I have to accept the possibility that the sites I read when I was researching all came from a single, bogus source. Such is the way of the Internet.
 
i have been doing some research, and i think i should take nolva during my cycle until the last day then start clomid for 3 weeks. does this sound good.? or should i start the clomid the weeks of the last shot?
 
toyosuprarz said:
i have been doing some research, and i think i should take nolva during my cycle until the last day then start clomid for 3 weeks. does this sound good.? or should i start the clomid the weeks of the last shot?
Click to expand...
clomid works great against gyno, but nolvadex has been proven to be superior when treating gyno
 
Blut Wump said:
It is accepted that oestrogen needs also to be present for progesterone-induced gyno. A-dex would be better than Nolva, however, since Nolva only binds to the oestrogen receptors rather than reducing oestrogen. Proviron is another alternative for the same reason: aromatase inhibiter to reduce the oestrogen. The body does apparently have pathways to produce oestrogen from deca and, in some, this is sufficient to trigger the gyno.

I have to accept the possibility that the sites I read when I was researching all came from a single, bogus source. Such is the way of the Internet.
Click to expand...
but still there is no such thing as progesterone-induced gyno, there has been alot of testing in that subject but they have ALL come to the same conclusion

Arimidex would NEVER be better then nolvadex, nolvadex will attach to your receptors at the gland site and keep it from recieving more estradiol, besides arimidex doesn't really "reduce" the ammounts of estrogen in your body, it just keeps the aromasin in check. Arimidex doesn't "inhibit" the aromatizing with more then 50% so it's more or less useless for this matter... also you cannot go much higher then around 50% reduction of the aromasin with the a-dex, because it has been proven that there is barely any difference between 1mg ed and 0.5 mg ed
 
toyosuprarz said:
so i would need nolva as well?
Click to expand...
I suggest you do your own research. Everything I've read, except from posts in this thread, indicates that Nolva will not help with Deca gyno. Don't put your health so squarely in the hands of a few people on the Internet.

Jenetic had a thread in the pct forum a few months back in which he said very clearly that he wouldn't use a nandrolone or similar without dostinex.
 
Güclü_oglan said:
use em both, do NOT skip the nolva regardless of what people tell you
Click to expand...

so how much nolva should i run ed till the gyno is gone? i think i am just going to by the nolva and see how that works out.
 
You should spend an evening or more reading the stickies in the pct forum and having a browse around the rest of it.

Good luck with the nolva. I hope it does the trick.
 
Blut Wump said:
You should spend an evening or more reading the stickies in the pct forum and having a browse around the rest of it.

Good luck with the nolva. I hope it does the trick.
Click to expand...

i have been reading all day and all night. its just that everyone on here has their own different opinions and what not. its hard which one i can relate to and follow.
 
At the very least take heed of Jenetic's posts. He's viewed as the pct guru on here. Don't take anyone's word blindy, though, unless you really feel you have no choice.
 
Biochem makes me think so! Nandrolone is reduced to a progestin. It does not undergo aromitization to estrogen......therefore Nolva wont help with Deca.
Dostinex is what you want.
If you are talking PCT, nolva stims natty test, so you should use it, but as for gyno prevention with deca, dostinex is the way to go (or bromocriptine, but that stuff sucks).
 
bigrand said:
Biochem makes me think so! Nandrolone is reduced to a progestin. It does not undergo aromitization to estrogen......therefore Nolva wont help with Deca.
Dostinex is what you want.
If you are talking PCT, nolva stims natty test, so you should use it, but as for gyno prevention with deca, dostinex is the way to go (or bromocriptine, but that stuff sucks).
Click to expand...

yea, i was still kind of debating. but i'll def. give Dostinex a look into more deeply. 8 pills for 140 is kinda expensive..........but hey, its worth it. so i might have to pick that up.
 
bigrand said:
Biochem makes me think so! Nandrolone is reduced to a progestin. It does not undergo aromitization to estrogen......therefore Nolva wont help with Deca.
Dostinex is what you want.
If you are talking PCT, nolva stims natty test, so you should use it, but as for gyno prevention with deca, dostinex is the way to go (or bromocriptine, but that stuff sucks).
Click to expand...
so you're taking someone elses word to spread a myth?

bro, in the "scientifical" world there is no such thing as progestin gyno, because gynocomastia has been tried to be induced without estrogen present several times (researching for brestcancer) and they have never succeded, i seriously doubt that some juicers who want to make cash of a new drug have proven it as well. But keep in mind that fake gear is ALOT more common then you guys will ever admit, and there you have your reason for gyno from other compounds

Progestin gyno is bullshit. And nolva will help "all" gyno, because gynocomastia cannot occur without estrogen present wich 60-100mg nolvadex takes care of. Arimidex won't do shit either, it only inhibts aromasin with 50% and it will interfere with your HPTA even further

Estrogen Suppression in Males
 
http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/143/10/4074

Biochem isnt a person, its an area of study. Progesterone plays a part in mammary development. There is a large amount of ER as well as PR in mammary tissues.

As far as inducing gyno without estro, wheres the study? Im not saying you are wrong, but increased levels of prog along with estro in the bloodstream will induce gyno as they both can stimulate growth.

To say arimidex wont help is rediculous, its replacing nolva in breast cancer therapy because of its ability to block aromitase and significantly lower estrogen production.

And where do you get that adex will interfere with HPTA?
Once the cytochrome responsible for aromitisation is taken care of with adex test isnt converted to estrogen. Lack of estrogen in males leads to stimulation of test production and hopefully the conversion of that into estrogen. adex stimulates the HPTA.
 
Also, to state that oestrogen is both necessary and sufficient to bring about gyno does not repudiate that prolactin and progesterone can stimulate or exacerbate gyno. We merely have that oestrogen needs also to be present.
 
bigrand said:
http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/143/10/4074

Biochem isnt a person, its an area of study. Progesterone plays a part in mammary development. There is a large amount of ER as well as PR in mammary tissues.

As far as inducing gyno without estro, wheres the study? Im not saying you are wrong, but increased levels of prog along with estro in the bloodstream will induce gyno as they both can stimulate growth.

To say arimidex wont help is rediculous, its replacing nolva in breast cancer therapy because of its ability to block aromitase and significantly lower estrogen production.

And where do you get that adex will interfere with HPTA?
Once the cytochrome responsible for aromitisation is taken care of with adex test isnt converted to estrogen. Lack of estrogen in males leads to stimulation of test production and hopefully the conversion of that into estrogen. adex stimulates the HPTA.
Click to expand...
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/7/2370

Adex will cause an artificiall and temporary raise in testosterone levels that will reduce your SBHG levels and interfere with HPTA even further

From reading that study it doesn't convince me that gynocomastia can occur without estrogen present since it didn't discuss that topic, but i already knew that there are several receptors in the mammal glands

i NEVER said arimidex wouldn't help, i just reacted some bro told him he would be better off with a-dex only instead of nolvadex wich is far away from the truth (you'll see if you read the study i included)

interesting discussion bro, if you got more info on this i would be glad to know because i've been looking around for these kinds of stuff. I will try to find somewhere to scan my pages (study is in swedish) where they tried to induce gynocomastia in rats and pigs without estrogen present and they came out empty
 
I get ya bro. Adex is the way to go if your talking gyno prevention, but if you have some gyno starting to develop, nolva is better because its an ER antagonist, it reacts with the tissue, not the formation of estrogen. I agree, very stimulating conversation, from one student to another!

"However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both)."

According to your study, after administration of the A-inhibitor, SHBG was uncahnged and HPTA was stimulated (increase in LH and FSH).
 
bigrand said:
I get ya bro. Adex is the way to go if your talking gyno prevention, but if you have some gyno starting to develop, nolva is better because its an ER antagonist, it reacts with the tissue, not the formation of estrogen. I agree, very stimulating conversation, from one student to another!

"However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both)."

According to your study, after administration of the A-inhibitor, SHBG was uncahnged and HPTA was stimulated (increase in LH and FSH).
Click to expand...
yes but the sbhg and hpta thing was after you discontinue the drug it drops back very low that's why i said artificial increase. I'll try to dig it out
 
Ok, id like to read it. As far as for PCT, id say run the adex because of the increase.....that coupled with the action of Nolva or clomid (more direct stim of the HPTA), by the time you come off adex, your back to normal.
 
Güclü_oglan said:
there is no such thing as prolactin and progesterone gyno
Click to expand...


With all due respect; gyno development is simply not well enough understood to make such a blanket statement.

Experts believe progesterone can play a roll and many endocronolgists will prescribe progesterone (along with estrogen) to develop breasts in male-to-female transsexuals.

I agree that estrogen MUST play a role in gyno; and deca does aromatize (to a lesser extent than testosterone). But progestins from the deca could very likely be the problem in a susceptable individual.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
some nipple soreness on test/deca?
Replies
11
Views
1K
2Thick
2Thick
V
any suggestions on which type of nandrolone?
Replies
14
Views
930
BodyMonster34
BodyMonster34
GMAN007
Future Bulking Cycle - Testosterone Cypionate / Nandrolone Decanoate
Replies
21
Views
3K
the_alcatraz
the_alcatraz
~Vision~
PSL Article Deca vs NPP: Let's talk about it!
Replies
1
Views
256
SteveMobsterG
SteveMobsterG
JCE
Approved Log Trt and Blast cycle Log
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
578
Views
47K
JCE
JCE
Top Bottom