Debate: Cardio versus Fat burners

[disturbed80]

I'm just curious, what are everyones thoughts on this? While I'm certainly no saint when it comes to putting exogenous hormones into my body, the plight of one of my buds has made me decide that fat burners are simply not worth it. He has been taking 50mg of ephedrine twice daily for nearly 2 years straight, with a couple of clenbuterol cycles in between....And he just recently had a checkup with a doctor that showed high BP (140-150/90) and borderline high blood sugar....prior to his bouts with stimulants, he had LOW blood pressure and his blood sugar was fine. He was in good shape, probably 15% body fat, but used fat burners to keep himself lean....
His doc also says that he has seen many teenagers with enlarged hearts due to abusing fat burners, particularly among females.

Like I mentioned above, I'm no saint and have certainly used my share of stimulants. But I have always had increased blood pressure while on (upwards of 140/90 while on, and 120/70 while off), have increased blood sugar (waking blood sugar of around 90 when on, usually 70ish when off), and just feel plain crappy. For the past few months, I have been doing AM cardio daily and I feel so much better doing this as opposed to taking pills everyday to stay lean. I dont have the moodswings from when i'm coming down from a dose of ephedrine. I dont have the racing heartbeat. I dont have the shakes like I used to...I just feel good and feel healthy. Here's some food for thought:


Pros of aerobic exercise:

-Improved insulin sensitivity for up to 18 hours. Effect is most dramatic with aerobic exercises such as running or stairclimbing

-Increased uptake of oxygen and glycogen to muscle cells

-Makes the heart more efficient at pumping oxygen throughout the body

-In time, can reduce blood pressure

-Less likely to cause muscle wasting, as seen with stimulants.

-Lowers cortisol production, which reduces waistline fat storage and muscle wasting.


Cons of Stimulants / Fat burners

-Increases blood pressure, sometimes dramatically

-Like any stimulants, prolonged high BP causes heart enlargement

-Increased blood glucose, decreased insulin sensitivity

-Stimulants are more likely to cause muscle wasting, due to the synergestic effect of high BP, high cortisol production, and decreased insulin sensitivity.

...And because of this, i'm done with ephedrine,T3, and clenbuterol. Like I mentioned a second ago, these stimulants did give me results but gave me more muscle loss than aerobic exercise and made me feel crappy.


What are your thoughts on this?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

-Increased blood glucose, decreased insulin sensitivity

-Stimulants are more likely to cause muscle wasting, due to the synergestic effect of high BP, high cortisol production, and decreased insulin sensitivity.

actually most stimulants lower blood glucose and many fat burners have ingredients (like EGCG) that improve insulin sensitivity

Stimulants are quite often anti-proteolytic (t3 which is not a stimulant is proteolytic, and catabolic).


IMHO the best option is both, Stims (and other fatburners/metabolic enhancers) as an addition to cardio

 

[disturbed80]

actually most stimulants lower blood glucose and many fat burners have ingredients (like EGCG) that improve insulin sensitivity

Stimulants are quite often anti-proteolytic (t3 which is not a stimulant is proteolytic, and catabolic).


IMHO the best option is both, Stims (and other fatburners/metabolic enhancers) as an addition to cardio

Macrophage, I am not referring to your products at all, this is mainly aimed at hardcore pharmaceutical stimulants (clenbuterol, ephedrine, T3.)

But I do know as a fact that Clenbuterol and ephedrine BOTH raise blood sugar, blood pressure, increase cortisol production, and decrease insulin sensitivity....I have seen numerous studies over at NiH showing this, and it has been my own experience as well (I have a glucometer). A few studies are below..

Now as far as your products...I am a big fan of your products, and this is'nt meant as a slander to any of your fat burners. This is aimed more at pharmaceutical products.

Enhanced stimulant and metabolic effects of combined ephedrine and caffeine.
-RESULTS: Ephedrine plus caffeine increased systolic blood pressure (peak difference, 11.7 +/- 9.4 mm Hg; compared with placebo, P =.0005) and heart rate (peak difference, 5.9 +/- 8.8 beats/min; compared with placebo, P =.001) and raised fasting glucose, insulin, free fatty acid, and lactate concentrations

[The role of beta 2-adrenoceptor on the pathogenesis of insulin resistance in essential hypertension]
-mabuterol induced a considerable decrease in GDR in EH patients but not in control subjects. There was no significant difference in the decrease of GDR between normo- and hyperadrenergic EH. The decrease in GDR tended to correlate with the mean blood pressure at rest in EH but not in normal subjects. Plasma glucose and serum insulin in EH patients were increased more than in normal subjects.

These are just a couple of studies, there have been numerous studies of the effect of ephedrine, T3, and clenbuterol on BP, insulin sensitivity, etc. They all share similar side effects, mainly increased blood sugar and insulin, raised BP, etc. I also know that when getting prescription triiodothyrionine (t3) or ephedrine in the usa (back when you able to get 50mg tabs prescribed), their prescribing papers both warn of increased insulin requirements when taking these meds.

 

[fergie]

ya tell me about it..... I know have an irregular heartbeat that I think is from the old hydroxys or clen. Come to think about it it could have been alot of other things but I'm sure one of those 2 was the culprit.

 

[needtogetaas]

ya tell me about it..... I know have an irregular heartbeat that I think is from the old hydroxys or clen. Come to think about it it could have been alot of other things but I'm sure one of those 2 was the culprit.

ya they gave me an inlarged dick.

 

[krishna]

Cardio first, and then fat burners for any additional support you may need.

 

[alexmichael]

I have always been decent about doing cardio regularly. I also have always had a horrible diet. I literally have eaten fast food an average of once a day for the past 20 + years. Im 39 now and only in the past 5 years have I ever taken any fat burners or energy drinks or pills. I have always been sub 10% bf. The only thing I have ever done right in my life was cardio on a regular basis. It is either genetics (I'm only one in my family that is fit) or the cardio that has kept me lean. Fat burners, amphetamines and stuff like that may help, but they also lead to somewhat of a vicious cycle with energy and weight. If you get older like me, I have found that the best thing in the world to stay lean and feel good is gh and regular cardio. Just my 2 cents on my personal experience.

 

[timtim]

it's all diet and cardio. some fat burners i guess could be effective but from my experience they did very little. especially clenbuterol. it's crap in my book, complete garbage.

 

[Goldprospector]

I have not been able to do AM cardio for the last 17 years due to work schedule. But Neither have I ever stuck to a regular regime of cardio upon first waking. But I have recently started going to college (job is sending me) and I have a fairly fixed schedule. So I am hoping to do AM cardio on a regular basis to see if I feel any different.
As far as fat burners, I have been using ECA stacks for a whole lot of years without a break. I have not become accustomed to them and I still get a kick from them. My last check up (off cycle) everything was fine and dandy. But I really would like to be able to stop them to see what it is like to be stimulant free. Maybe I will be able to with a new AM cardio routine.

 

[fergie]

ya they gave me an inlarged dick.

so your up to 3" now?