Debaser...

[b fold the truth]

Your post and attitude on the Westside thread really upsets me...greatly. This is one reason.

See that's the beauty of "debate." Correct debate exists in the absence of ad hominem, a common falacy.

de·bate
To consider something; deliberate.
To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.

ad hominem
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives.

fal·la·cy
A false notion.
A statement or an argument based on a false or invalid inference.
Incorrectness of reasoning or belief; erroneousness.
The quality of being deceptive.

I guess that you can sit on the other side of that computer and discuss things like "debate", "ad hominem", and "fallacy" if you would like. You know why I posted all of the definitions here? Because I had to look them up on the internet to understand what each of them meant. I honestly did not know.

I have no problems admitting that I do not know much about the terms of these words as you are seeming much more versed in things like this than I am. I don't argue with these things. One might be able to determine that I might have a little more knowledge of things dealing with STRENGTH TRAINING, powerlifting, and WSB than you do...yet you really don't seem to recognize, accept, or even admit that.

You want to leave ad hominem aside in a DISCUSSION (or on a discussion forum)...then feel free to do so with numbers. I will post up mine...you post up yours. There is no debating them or ad hominem taking place...just flat out facts...like a debate should be based on.

This is why I like competition. It seperates the guys behind the keyboard and on the sidelines and in their chairs...from the guys who step out on the field of battle. The debate is settled with things like pounds, kilos, distances, etc... All the talk ends...and it becomes time for everything to be put to the test.

I've gone out of my way to show respect to you both on this forum as well as others in your knowledge about DC training and what is working for YOU. Why do you not show the same respect to me?
Why do you not accept my knowledge on strength training...especially when you know so little about it and have been involved in it in so many ways???

I have been training for 11 years and have went from a body weight of 152 to 305 a few years ago...and a now in shape 290. I have gone from not being able to squat the empty Smith Machine bar for a single...to being one of the best Strength Athletes in the country.

At what point is respect earned around here? I'm really not seeing much of it to be quite honest and I hope that this attitude isn't a direct reflection of how things are around here now...

Seriously...

B True

 

[wnt2bBeast]

B - I dont wanna jump in this thread this is between you and debaser..but this board needs you here..i know you do a lot of posting on irontrybe and thats cool but your an asset here as well and please do not let this stop you from posting here!!

 

[TheOak84]

dont be scurd, debaser

 

[JKurz1]

I'm not taking sides on this, but both of you are assets to this forum. Bfold - you have proven that hard work, dedication and knowledge leads to very positive gains and success. Your track record proves this. Although you and I train for different means (i.e. bodybuilding vs. powerlifting), I've learned a lot from your thoughts and theories.

Debaser - You too have proven that your way of training has produced positive and awesome results for you and your prodigies. The one problem I do have is that many times, the way you phrase your thoughts and suggestions is more of a dictatorship than a democracy. Just lighten up when someone objects to your theories. Constructive crisitism is much easier to cope with, as crude, harsh remarks do nothing more than make people object even more to your philosophy. Lose the "either you are with me or against me" attitude and everything will be cool.

We need everyone on this board to contribute, so we ALL can keep learning and keep GROWING!

 

[ChinkNasty]

dont be scurd, debaser

I always thought it was spelled scurred

lol

 

[TheOak84]

I always thought it was spelled scurred

lol

ya, i mix it up

 

[KillahBee]

I'm not taking sides on this, but both of you are assets to this forum.

We need everyone on this board to contribute, so we ALL can keep learning and keep GROWING!

Agreed. Don't know much about Debaser, but I know that B Fold is the definition of gentleman and athlete. EF has lost some quality people in the last year that had contributed greatly to the training board. I do not even know what this whole thing is about, but B brought up the most important part of this iron game: respect. Respect the weights, respect yourself, respect the hard work and determination needed to succeed, respect each other's differences, and respect those around you.

 

[jcp2]

i will say this, when it comes to strengh training their are a very select few i would ever contact for advice, and bfold just about heads that list. It would definately be a shame if he left here.

 

[WalkingBeast]

Yes. Respect is very important. Without that these boards woud fall apart at the seams. For me, thats what makes these boards worth posting on and moderating. All different types can share thier ideas and whats worked for them, along with a great deal of encouragement. Another's ideas should not be taken personally, but merely as something that has worked for them. When something is directed as a personal attack or stated as fact then that changes things. I think that type of posting is detrimental to the boards.

 

[Smurfy]

Agreed. Don't know much about Debaser, but I know that B Fold is the definition of gentleman and athlete. EF has lost some quality people in the last year that had contributed greatly to the training board. I do not even know what this whole thing is about, but B brought up the most important part of this iron game: respect. Respect the weights, respect yourself, respect the hard work and determination needed to succeed, respect each other's differences, and respect those around you.

well 3 snaps to you....

you hit the nail on the head.

 

[KillahBee]

well 3 snaps to you....

you hit the nail on the head.

If you don't change that avi soon, I might have to hit something else....

 

[Smurfy]

If you don't change that avi soon, I might have to hit something else....

 

[Frango]

LOL seems like being spanked by Animal wasnt enough for Debaser. Site Nazi x Dictator lol.

 

[Debaser]

Animal is a fucking child who actually edited my posts. He could never address the original argument, and instead attacked my knowledge on hormones, which was largely irrelevent (not to mention I admitted my lack of expertise on the subject, and that it WAS irrelevent). He never could address my initial argument, so he simply changed the subject and threw out as many childish insults as possible. A "spanking"? Quite the opposite, and if you'll remember, I actually TOLD him to ban me, for I was sick of his ridiculous pre-pubescent antics.

And to b-fold, I have honestly no fucking clue what you're talking about and what you're taking so personally. That last post referenced Suston's reply (even quoted), who made a statement saying something about it being ridiculous to debate a pro, simply because his numbers are higher. Absolute idiocy. If you can't understand why his post is utterly WRONG, then I have no reason to bother discussing this further.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Debaser, you're a bit too harsh. I agree that maybe B might be letting it hit him too close to the heart, but still, you just act like a dick half the time man. I couldn't even imagine your tone, were I to hear to speak. I respect both you and B due to the amount of dedication you have towards what you do. I know B is a professional strongman, and you, Debaser, have your own agenda. Whatever that may be, training muay thai, boxing, and...something else, twice a week for two hours is impressive.

I agree that respect is sometimes lacking on these boards. I followed that other thread, and I do agree that Suston's comment isn't completely sound, but I also know where he's coming from. Knowledge isn't the only thing that matters. Experience means a whole lot more than any book can teach you.

 

[b fold the truth]

And to b-fold, I have honestly no fucking clue what you're talking about and what you're taking so personally. That last post referenced Suston's reply (even quoted), who made a statement saying something about it being ridiculous to debate a pro, simply because his numbers are higher. Absolute idiocy. If you can't understand why his post is utterly WRONG, then I have no reason to bother discussing this further.

And once again you avoid every point in one of my posts to you.

You were replying TO Suston in that thread...ABOUT me. Hmm..I wonder why I would take it personally? Saying that my knowledge about STRENGTH TRAINING is belittled. Interesting.

Still...you avoid lots of points...

I keep seeing your true colors coming through. So little respect given...yet so much respect demanded.

B True

 

[Frango]

So hormones arent relevant in a topic about exercise-induced sistemic protein sinthesys? Well Im kinda lost then. Let go, its over.

 

[Debaser]

So hormones arent relevant in a topic about exercise-induced sistemic protein sinthesys? Well Im kinda lost then. Let go, its over.

Look, it's really simple. Animal kept trying to argue that hormones caused system protein synthesis. He kept thinking I was denying that. I said, "OK, now show me evidence that squats actually raise hormone levels to any significant amount" and he never could, he just kept babbling on about red herrings.

 

[Debaser]

And to b fold...

This is pointless. I'm tired of dramatic forum bullshit because people can't separate the man from the argument.

1. Point out to me where I belittled your strength training expertise. Simple disagreement is not disrespect!

2. I don't demand respect from anybody. I present arguments, it's up to the forum-goers to make their own decisions, not you.

3. Debate is what keeps a forum healthy! Why the hell do you have to consider reasonable arguments against you personal attacks?! I wouldn't care if the fucking round table of Ed Coan, Paul Anderson, Westside, Nazareth barbell, and every gold medal olympic weightlifter in iron history all made a statement, because who you are does not make you right by default.

4. Bodybuilding, strength training, etc. are pastimes PLAGUED by anecdotal evidence. Back up your claims, "Because I say so, and I'm big and strong" doesn't fly! That's how misinformation spreads, and we don't need any more of it.

5. You keep on talking about disrespect, yet you basically state that your opinions are more valid than mine simply because you're stronger. THAT is disrespect. THAT is total BULLSHIT.

I'm done. I have enough stress in my life right now to floor 3 people, so I'm not going to go out of my way to deal with more of it on the fucking internet, when it's unfounded in the first place.

 

[b fold the truth]

And to b fold...

This is pointless. I'm tired of dramatic forum bullshit because people can't separate the man from the argument.

With a name like "debaser" and one who sure does seem to stirr up a lot of forum "crap"...this sounds kinda funny coming from you. Seperate the man from the arguement? Hmm...lets see.

On a discussion about West Side training...you have two different people presenting arguements.

Lets forget that one of them is a Pro Strength Athlete and near 300 pounds and that the other one is a 200 or so (?) for a few minutes. Lets then look at the fact that one of them trains WSB and that the other one never has.

Hmmm...

1. Point out to me where I belittled your strength training expertise. Simple disagreement is not disrespect!

You have pointed it out a few times. Suston makes a post about how someone is putting arguing with a pro strength athlete and YOU come back with a reply that belittled my advice. You DO show disrespect and LOTS of people see it too. It ain't just me.

2. I don't demand respect from anybody. I present arguments, it's up to the forum-goers to make their own decisions, not you.

You sure do present every single thing that you say like you are the most arrogant person on the Planet.

3. Debate is what keeps a forum healthy! Why the hell do you have to consider reasonable arguments against you personal attacks?! I wouldn't care if the fucking round table of Ed Coan, Paul Anderson, Westside, Nazareth barbell, and every gold medal olympic weightlifter in iron history all made a statement, because who you are does not make you right by default.

Once again, you can disagree with me all that you want to. I do not mind that. I don't find that your "arguements" to be reasonable either. That and your comment WAS a personal stab at me in the Westside thread...as we have already established.

Who one is does not make them right by default? I agree.
JUST because you are "Debaser", just because you are not very big, and just because you are not very strong, does not make YOU correct either. Think about that.

4. Bodybuilding, strength training, etc. are pastimes PLAGUED by anecdotal evidence. Back up your claims, "Because I say so, and I'm big and strong" doesn't fly! That's how misinformation spreads, and we don't need any more of it.

Always remember...just because you are not big and strong, does NOT mean that you are correct either. This isn't about who is bigger and stronger. At one time, I was your size (much smaller and MUCH weaker) and I have continued to progress to where I am now. You say that I make points with "I'm bigger so I'm right..." which is sooooo far off.

Remember that you can't win an arguement with...."I'm not as big and have poor genetics and this other idea makes better sense so I'm right". That doesn't fly either.

Misinformation? You have posted on a WSB thread, which you have NO CLUE about how to do. I don't post on your DC training threads...because I know so little about it. Hey...I'll even ADMIT that I don't. Strange that you can't ADMIT that you know so little about WSB and Strength Training.

5. You keep on talking about disrespect, yet you basically state that your opinions are more valid than mine simply because you're stronger. THAT is disrespect. THAT is total BULLSHIT.

I stated what? Where?
I have said that I should be given a little respect for the things that I've done in my life and not shows disrespect from you or anyone else.
Ohh...and about WSB...I didn't present opinion either.

I'm done. I have enough stress in my life right now to floor 3 people, so I'm not going to go out of my way to deal with more of it on the fucking internet, when it's unfounded in the first place.

I'll state this here:
I hope that you do not come back. I do not like your attitude and never have. I believe that attitudes like yours hurt every forum. THAT is my opinion.

B True

 

[Devastation]

I hope that you do not come back. I do not like your attitude and never have. I believe that attitudes like yours hurt every forum. THAT is my opinion.

B True

i share your opinion

 

[guldukat]

i share your opinion

I honestly don't, because I like both Debaser and BTrue. I don't want to see either leave the site over this, especially when I kinda see where each of them is coming from here.

As far as respect goes, B-Fold, you got mine in spades I'd certainly not disregard your advice where Westside--shoot, strength training in general--is concerned. Just the same, I do feel you took Debaser's comment about the ad hominem a bit hard. I don't think he intended to belittle what you were saying in that thread; it looks as if he was simply chaffing at the "You're not a pro, Debaser, so you're wrong" idea. I'd probably be irritated by that, too *shrugs* (But then, I don't think Suston meant that either exactly. He seemed to just be making an observation, finding the thread funny.)

I'd love it if you could both forget about this over a pint, but maybe it can't be resolved amicably. I'd understand that...it'd be a pity, but I don't expect that everybody can get along all the time. If that does prove to be the case, I'd request that a mod lock the thread. No offense to anyone, but I can see how this could degenerate into a purely "Debaser-bashing" thread. Should that turn out to be the case, it wouldn't do the board any good, either.

-Sean

 

[big4life]

The only thing that I ask is that there be mutual respect. Respect for the board, the members, and most of all what this place is all about, helping each other learn and grow.