DE Bench Question

[spatts]

According to cough*Westside*cough, I'm supposed to stay at certain percentages of my last test bench max when doing speed work. This doesn't make sense to me. I have obviously gained strength and improved since we tested, so why do I still do the same weights on speed work? Doesn't sound opitmal to me.

For those of you that do speed work, westside or not, what kind of formula do you use from week to week to determine the weight you use for work sets?

 

[CytoMel]

Whats with all the coughing Spatts?

here is my take on speed bench:

Using too much weight much isnt important really for DE day. I can do like 400+ raw but using one doubled mini a side +185-205 range lbs of bar weight works fine with one band.

Basicly just test the weight and if you can go fast with it then add a little more and if it slows down than go with the lighter weight.

Some people spend a lot of time online writing a million posts and overanalyzing every aspect of training it seems.

Just train hard with the heaviest weight you can do fast and you will gain strength.

For you I am not sure. Without knowing your maxes and everything its impossible for me or anyone else who doesnt train with you to tell. Just ask Hannabal and he will know what you should use.

 

[spatts]

LOL...people just tend to associate speed training with Westside, and it shouldn't be. It's all about the speed.

...just my humble opinion, of course.

Lately, I've been feeling pretty unchallenged on speed day, and want to go up, but I was wondering if I should add more accomodating resistance or more ACTUAL weight. To rehab my shoulder I laid off of band work for bench...miss them, love them. Been sticking to chains until I think my shoulder's ready to go back to bands. I would like to try to load the top more, but at the same time, the bottom is REALLY weak for me (another reason I need the speed).

 

[Deciever1]

i try to use a weight where i can generate the most amount of force in the shortest amount of time.. now im using 95 lbs + 1 mini, instead of 105 and a mini . By using a formula, i determined that my 2.5 seconds at 95, produced alot more force than 105 @ 3 seconds...

i was very bored today, and had nothing to do, so i fooled around with that.

 

[jeremys]

question!

does anybody else's upper back fly off the bench when doing speed bench?

 

[Hannibal]

In my ever so humble opinion...and from talkin to Dave, 1-Dawg, and Bob I have come to realize that the percentages are just a guideline. In the article that Jim Wendler wrote about preparing for the 2001 IPA Nationals...he said his percentages for speed work for squat was based on a 725...in the meet he did an easy 825.

As far as personal experience...I used to use 177 and 2 chains for my speed work. I recently reduced that to 155 and 2 chains...and I have been setting some huge PR's after being stagnant for a while. Obviously, I am getting stronger and the percentage I am using is decreasing.

The percentages are always going to be somewhat off. You base them on something that you USED to do. If I am a 400 bencher and set up my bench cycle off that number...I am not doing it in an effort to go to the meet and bench 400 again...if that makes sense.

 

[Deciever1]

question!

does anybody else's upper back fly off the bench when doing speed bench?

mine does if i dont use bands... im sure a lot of peoples do.

 

[jeremys]

alright..not just me then...cool

 

[BigWh1tey]

I train with 185 + doubled minis or 1 pair of chains , I just hit 506 with a single denim. The weight isn't as important as the speed, and my upper back stays buried. If i feel like I have some left after 8-10 sets on DE day , then I'll take a few heavier singles (up to about 80% or a little more raw) with my pinkies just shy of the rings.
When i trained at higher weights my speed would be good for a few weeks then drop and alot of my ME work stopped progressing.

 

[AnimalMass1]

Most of these guys seem right on.

However, the more and more I train in Powerlifting and Westside, the more I see that everything is just so diffeent from lifter to lifter.

I rarely use bands on DE day anymore. If I'm feeling overtrained at all, I def use them, but otehrwise I'm on bands. (Alot of this also has to do with whether or not I'm on a cycle.)

The other thing I've been doing is really experimenting with circa-maximal phases for the bench. I've talked to Dave alot about this, and you can't believe the progress it helps you make.

However, in saying all of that, it is still important to remember that this is SPEED day. You can't do bands and circa-maximal phases all the time. When lifting with bands, your reps are slow as hell. And for awhile that actually makes you faster with regular bar weight. But after awhile it becomes the law of diminishing returns,and you have to get back to throwing those three reps up in under 2 secs, or you forget how to bench fast.

So spatts, my suggestion is this: keep the weight low until the shoulder is fully rehabbed, and then star playing around with adding more bands, and not more bar weight.

When you start to slow down, or feel beat up, drop the bands, and really start moving the chains for a week or two.

AnimalMass

 

[The Shadow]

well I jumped for 160 to 190 and only lost .7 seconds on a total set time for a 3 rep set.....I see no reason to bump up 5-10 pounds per week as long as time is still low...small jumps in weight per set makes sense to me as well.

 

[spatts]

I've never timed mine. I use chains right now. I've done circa max phases for squats, and man they tore me down. Kicked my ARSE all over the place. My CNS was SO hammered that I had almost no carry over. Again, my shoulder was a huge part of this at the time. Lately, with the chains, I've been using a same percentage of weight that I've used since I tested...and I tested at around 177 or something. Well, I've added 20 pounds or so to my raw max bench with a pause since then, and when I do speed work it's FAST and I don't feel like I did any work afterwards. Just thinking I should add more weight or more chains. So you think chains?

 

[The Shadow]

...when I jumped to 190 - my chest was sore for 4 days and that is no exageration.....I would try weight first and then possibly the chains....

tkae chains off...use same weight on bar for the first two sets and then jump 5 pounds every two sets until you get the 8 sets in.???