DC or 5x5 or other ??

[Toozee]

Starting to plan out my bulk-up starting late summer or fall.
Just wondering which of these 2 training types (or any others for that matter) everyone prefers or are getting good results from.

More size of course is the goal here. I am still natural for now btw (still have room for natural growth).

May try to use Mr.X's Cycle-bulking diet to see how that works for me. If not that, will use regular 40/30/30 with low gi carbs.

Results you enjoyed, tips and downsides are all appreciated.

THANKS AGAIN

 

[Debaser]

You're going to be hard pressed to get an opinion based on "preference," simply because DC training is pretty recent to this board (I posted the sticky a mere few months ago), and not many people have tried both programs. People seem to succeed on both programs, however I will always recommend DC training.

5x5 is correct in that it focuses on progression. In my opinion, it hits a bump in a couple areas:

1. Only working each bodypart once a week. This is a pretty slow frequency for growth, given that your body can recover faster when certain demands are met.

2. Too much volume. Once growth stimulus is achieved through the first 1-3 sets (depending on intensity), further lifting only works to induce fatigue and mar recovery. I believe the total number of sets is 9 each day. You will probably be able to add weight the next session, but because you had to recover for a full week (due to the volume) you are not gaining optimally.

The DC program has a caveat though, you need to follow his diet. If you are not prepared to go the extra mile, it's not really worth it to be busting your ass inefficiently.

 

[Toozee]

Thanks Debaser.

I can say I was leaning toward DC. My arms didnt grow quickly until I started hitting them twice a week, and then the growth was incredibly fast and noticeable. If the diet must be used as well, so be it. As long as I get to eat!

Thanks again for the info.

 

[Toozee]

Anyone else ??

 

[c3bodybuilding]

I was using DC for just a few short weeks, and within that time, I noticed a BIG difference. Between the eating, and the way he sets up the workouts, I was growing and getting stronger on a day to day basis it seemed! As soon as I am all healed up, I'm jumping right back on the bandwagon.

As for 5x5, I have never tried it, but I have also heard GREAT things about that program. Lot's of people have made awesome gains on it.

There are so many great routines out there, hst, 5x5, dc, etc, etc. You will do well with which ever one you pick, as long as you give it 100%. If you choose to do any of these, don't change things, or add your own stuff, follow it ALL, and give it your all. Too many people half ass it, or change it around even slightly, so then when the program doesn't do anything, they blame the program, when it was really their fault.

I'm sure you will do well with whatever program you choose, good luck, and happy growing!

 

[BlkWS6]

Im going to chime in for the 5x5'ers out there. I love this program for the strength as well as the size gains that come from it. It seems to be a little bit more flexible in terms of the demand it has on the body and the results you will see. I have put guys on the 5x5 that probably didnt have the best recovery habits yet they made awesome progress off of the 5x5. DC training seems to really demand much more adherence to a very intense diet, and I would attribute this to the degree of intensity that the program calls for. I tried DC training for a month (which isnt a whole lot of time) and although I truly enjoyed the training I just couldnt recover from it. For me in general, a lot of failure training really taxes my recovery and I dont seem to gain as much strength or size. On the 5x5, you dont really train for failure (although you could on the 2 accessory movements) as a result of this I found myself recovering from the workouts every week and adding weight to the bar every week. For what its worth I was definitely overtrained while on the DC method, this is of course not a slam on the program but just my personal experience with it. I saw the greatest gains of my life while on the 5x5. I have had many people thank me for introducing them to Needsize's program, and I truly recommend it for anyone. Also, at the current time Im following a variation of the 5x5 that NS has done, and I have also dropped the volume and am currently only doing one accessory movement for my compound lifts.

 

[Baoh]

Cyclical 5x5, as outlined by Bill Starr. Do a search for HIS incarnation of the program, since he created it. It incorporates Power Cleans in place of Deadlifts, for instance, and there are other details. It is a program that has stood the test of time like very few others.

 

[louden_swain]

I must say that after several years of training, I have used every time of program imaginable.

I follow DC training and it has been a great!!!

I am adding reps and weight to the bar each week.

To me, the program makes too much sense, then again other people have had great gains using other programs.

 

[Toozee]

Thanks for the replies you guys. It all was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks to all!

 

[casualbb]

1. Only working each bodypart once a week. This is a pretty slow frequency for growth,

YES! Too little frequency. If you grow quickly on this, you're lucky.

2. Too much volume. Once growth stimulus is achieved through the first 1-3 sets (depending on intensity), further lifting only works to induce fatigue and mar recovery.

Here's where I'm going to disagree. There isn't some magic threshold of sets, past which no further growth is caused. Generally more sets will promote more growth, as long as frequency isn't compromised.

Volume is somewhat related to overtraining, but the truth is that failure training is a far greater contributor to overtraining than number of sets. On DC it's one set to extreme failure; you work 1.5-2 times a week. On volume training, it's a buncha sets to failure; good luck working once/week. With HST, it's zero sets to failure; I've done fullbody workouts 4x/week and not overtrained.

Now 5x5 (not Bill's original, but the sticky here) is a strange program. It does progressive load, which is awesome and distinguishes it as superior to any other volume split-type routine. It, for most of the time, does zero sets to failure, yet has people working a bodypart only once a week. This makes no sense. You'll often hear this reflected in the 5x5 trainees: "Doing my 5 sets of XXX felt great today! It's two days later and I already can't wait until next week!" Why do they go ahead and wait until next week instead of hitting it again when they're ready? Waiting so long is probably a relic of that magazine once-a-week propaganda. I'd wager my life savings that if 5x5 trainees did each major group twice a week instead of once they'd double their gains.

-casualbb

 

[Debaser]

Here's where I'm going to disagree. There isn't some magic threshold of sets, past which no further growth is caused. Generally more sets will promote more growth, as long as frequency isn't compromised.

-casualbb

That's essentially what I was saying here: "You will probably be able to add weight the next session, but because you had to recover for a full week (due to the volume) you are not gaining optimally."

In other words, they cannot train more than once a week, because they do too much work. So frequency *is* compromised. If they lowered their workload to say, 1-3 sets, then frequency could possibly be bumped up. In fact, 5x5 did advocate (and as Bill Starr prescribed it, baoh) 2-3 warm up sets and then 2-3 work sets for a total of 5. This is a far superior method in my opinion. He also advocated lighter and medium lifting days. An edited (by me) version of some of Bill Starr's ideas I just came up with about 5 seconds ago might look like this...

I had some of my own ideas, taking his light, medium and heavy concept, and reducing number of sets as the weight is more taxing...

Week 1 NOTE: WARMUP SETS "NOT" COUNTED

Monday (75% of max)

Dip, 4 x 5
Overhead Press, 4 x 5
Close-grip supinated pulldown/pullup, 3 x 10
Squat, 4 x 5
Stiff-legged deadlift, 3 x 10

Wednesday (85 - 90% max)

Dip, 3 x 5
Overhead Press, 3 x 5
Pulldown/pullup, 2 x 10
Squat, 3 x 5
Stiff-legged deadlift, 2 x 10

Friday (FAILURE)

Dip, 2 x 5
Overhead Press, 2 x 5
Pulldown/pullup, 1 x 10
Squat, 2 x 5
Stiff-legged deadlift, 1 x 10

---

opinions?

 

[BlkWS6]

Casual: I understand where you are coming from regarding hitting the body part more then once a week, but I have two issues regarding applying such a concept to the 5x5 as laid out by NS. First, I dont know about other 5x5'ers but Im far from ready to hit the muscle again within a couple of days. Im usually sore for quite some time, and I do have good recovery habits. On thursday, my chest is often still sore from my Monday workout. Secondly, unlike the DC program the 5x5 uses the same compound lift for an extended period of time. As opposed to DC training where you cycle through 3 different exercises, on the 5x5 you are doing the same lift for the whole program (until you plateau then there are other options but that is a whole different story) So my point is, if you hit flat bench twice a week for chest for example, and you followed the progressive overload principles of the 5x5 as laid out by NS you would have to add 10lbs to each of your compound lifts every week. That is a whole lot of weight to expect to add to the bar every week, and I imagine one would stall out very fast. In DC, you cycle the exercises you add the weight to, so if Im doing flat bench on week one, Im not going to add weight again to flat bench until I repeat that exercise again which wouldnt be for roughly 3wks. I couldnt imagine trying to add 80lbs to my bench within 2 months. And if you had to add 10lbs every week, and your progress every week for 2 months that is what it would roughly come out to be. And that is just really far fetched in my opinion. I would like to hear your thoughts on it though casual, and anyone else for that matter. Im always open for suggestions, but I have thought it through before and hitting a muscle 2x a week on the 5x5 (needsize's version mind you) that is just too much weight to add every week.

 

[Debaser]

Im far from ready to hit the muscle again within a couple of days. Im usually sore for quite some time

This is really his (and my) point. If it takes you a full week to be primed for another session, then you're digging too deep into your recovery.

 

[tsarleon]

once again it is an individual thing like EVERYTHING. why not rotate 5x5 instead of once awk or twice a week to maybe 3 times every two weeks... so in a 14 day period you would bench 5x5 3 times... allowing perhaps give or take depending on rotation roughly 4 days inbetween bench days. who knows.

 

[SofaGeorge]

I tired DC training and had to abandon it very quickly. I'm back doing 5x5 now and loving it.

DC may be a very good program... but it is not flexable. You have to stick to the schedule... and unfortunately my schedule doesn't let me keep a fixed workout schedule. Hence, 5x5 works better for me.

 

[casualbb]

Debaser:

In other words, they cannot train more than once a week, because they do too much work.

And I'm saying that the 5x5's volume per session isn't unreasonable, if they're not training to failure.

BlkWS6:

Im far from ready to hit the muscle again within a couple of days. Im usually sore for quite some time, and I do have good recovery habits. On thursday, my chest is often still sore from my Monday workout.

Soreness really isn't a good indicator of anything. The reason you're so consistently sore is you let so much time elapse between sessions that by the time you hit it next you've actually detrained!

on the 5x5 you are doing the same lift for the whole program ...twice a week for chest for example, and you followed the progressive overload principles of the 5x5 as laid out by NS you would have to add 10lbs to each of your compound lifts every week. That is a whole lot of weight to expect to add to the bar every week, and I imagine one would stall out very fast.

I agree, one would run out of weight quickly. The thing is, the 5x5 already has you start below your max, right? If you're willing to accept the leap of faith that you don't have to work to failure to cause growth (and god bless you if you have), then why not just lower your starting point a little more?

Say you can do 185 lbs 5x5. You'd normally start at, what, 165? If you were doing 2x/week that'd only allow 2 weeks of progression. I say, why not start at 135? That'd give you a growth-packed 7-8 weeks, assuming you'd end up hitting 195 for 5x5.

-casualbb

 

[Debaser]

No one liked my program idea? I thought it sounded neato.

 

[gmanlax7]

if you are bulking i would try the 5x5

DC isn't much volume so it might make you gain a little less of fat

 

[Baoh]

"(and as Bill Starr prescribed it, baoh)"

Why did you address me?

 

[Debaser]

Because you mentioned Bill Starr earlier.

He had his head on his shoulders in many ways but not in others, but then again, almost every trainer is like that.

 

[Baoh]

There was no need to remind me via direct address, though. As for your assertion regarding the man, you're welcome to believe that.

 

[c3bodybuilding]

I don't want to be a thread pirate, but this is kind of on topic. So, we are now starting to understand that frequency is important. That hitting a muscle 2 and sometimes 3 times a week is better than one for hypertrophy. Then perhaps Arnolds routines of yore were not that bad.

I have been reading up on them, and it is said he would make each day different. He would work the body 3 times a week. But one was a heavy day, moderate, and light. Now for a genetically elite man, and lots of steroids, thats not really overtraining. So maybe Arnold was onto something with his frequent workouts. He grew awfully quick. He never got much bigger afterawhile, but he would keep getting more and more polished, at the same weight. Okay, I am doped up on some pain pills, and none of this probably even makes sense. Just a thought.

 

[BlkWS6]

Debaser I think that you are right that Im dipping a little bit into my recovery if Im sore for quite a few days following my lift. But for what its worth it doesnt seem to be hindering my lifts. For example, my close grip bench on thursday isnt really compromised from the little bit of left over soreness in my chest from monday's workout (unless it is like the first week back to lifting after a week or two off) Although Im probably hitting that fine line between overtraining and not, Im adding weight to the bar every week so Im going to assume that Im doing ok.

Sofa: I totally agree with you regarding the flexibility of the 5x5 and the somewhat inflexibility of DC training. I mean sure a sound diet is a crucial part of any training regimen, but the requirements of DC training were something that I just couldnt hang with at this point in my life.

Casual: Im definitely an advocate of non-failure training, in fact that was one of my major gripes with DC training. I realize that soreness is not an indicator of growth, and I think in my first post I may have given the wrong impression of the degree of my sorenss. It is just a little DOMS and nothing that is really hindering my progress. Im not quite following your logic about dropping the weight a considerable amount so that one could train the body part twice a week and still make progress. I mean do you think it is better to drop to a significantly smaller weight just so that the muscle can be hit more often? Many argue that strength is highly correlated with size (I know we can argue the whole CNS adaptation and what not) so I would think that pushing more weight and getting stronger every week with training the muscle once a week would be more effective then dropping the weight a considerable amount just so you can hit the bodypart with moderate weights more frequently. I guess my argument is what is better? Heavier resistance in fewer sessions, or a lighter load with higher frequency? Hahah I hope that kinda makes sense.

 

[casualbb]

I'm pretty sure I get what you're saying.

Heavier resistance in fewer sessions, or a lighter load with higher frequency?

I should also make myself more clear. Since it's all about progressive load, what I suggested was have the starting weight be lower so that you can progress the load for a longer period of time before being unable to complete the sets. It's not all light; you start light and progress towards heavy. As long as you're not training to failure, it's all good.

What I'm discussing is different from what the original sticky details. The stated goal of the sticky is to break a strength plateau, and they've found that building up through progressive resistance allowed strength gains. I'm gonna take the position that the progressive load caused muscle gains which caused the observed strength gains. Not that strength gains caused size gains.

So if you did what I outlined, you should grow more and see some pretty decent strength gains.

-casualbb

 

[Toozee]

Bump......

this is good stuff. I'm now trying to think of a modified 5x5 that you can do twice a week. I'll post more later.....I need more coffee.

 

[st8k_lover]

. Tozee, I was in your shoes just a couple of months ago, coming back to working out after a substantial down period. I tried 5x5 and my own form of dc. Like some of the other post have suggested I had a few problems with each style. I have never really likes once a week per body part training and developed the same dislike for the 5x5 program. I was making good gains but I thought I was ready to hit it a few days before the programmed scheduled workout. So I tried DC but did not like the only one set per workout so I added another set, which I have since found out is strictly taboo. I did find I liked the Monday Friday Wed split as I felt I was ready to go in that time frame. My workout now consists of elements of both styles but is restricted in form or content by neither. I work chest triceps and shoulders on M-F-W in this fashion
Warm-ups, 3x5 core movement (like bench, close grips military's)
2x10 assist movement to failure but no forced or neg reps

Tues 5x5 back and bicep with 2 assist lifts 2x10
Thurs 5x5 legs with two assist lifts 2x10

The bottom line is, don’t be afraid to try multiple routines and find out what works for you. Just because Louden and Needsize make great gains on their respective routines, does not mean it will be optimal for you. But you have made one good choice in coming to this board as there is an abundance of opinions and information to be had.
Peace

 

[casualbb]

2x10 assist movement to failure but no forced or neg reps

There's another issue I have with the sticky as outlined. You have this wonderful progressive load thing going with the main 5x5 exercise, but then it's ruined by taking those two auxiliary exercises to failure. That really mucks up the progressive load if your pushing max with those exercises each workout.

I'd drop them altogether. After all, if your core movement is a really productive one, such as squats, deadlifts, or incline press, do you really need to add front squats or flyes? Methinks not.

-casualbb

 

[louden_swain]

Here is what I can't understand.

Why use multiple sets, when you can attack a muscle using one set to failure?

To me the 5 x 5 method does not totally test your total maximum output, once you hit 5 reps you stop, when you may be able to get an additional 2 reps.

For me all non-failure sets are used for warmups at 50-70% of total max.

What will extra sets do for a trainer? When you see 5 x 5, what is it about the 5 sets that will make you grow?

The idea of training is to breakdown muscle so a person can spend time eating and resting. When this happens the muscle will grow and learn how to adapt to the stress.

 

[ghee]

Don't the days with heavy compound movements (in 5x5 training) offset any "detraining" that might take place?

I've been doing 5x5 for only a month now, and initially I felt like I could do more than one day a week per part. Now that I'm getting up closer to the high end of my weight limits, I'm starting to wonder. I could maybe do more than one day per week on my arms or chest, but would this affect any of my other days?

I do back/shoulders on Mondays, and legs on Thursdays. Could I train these parts more than once a week and not have it affect the other day? I doubt it. Maybe three times in two weeks would be doable. I do a bit more than is prescribed on leg day, though. Maybe if I chopped it down to the minimum and did it twice a week that would be doable. But then, would I really feel like I had a good workout? I guess that puts us back to just doing what seems best on a case-by-case basis.

Interesting thread.

 

[BlkWS6]

Originally posted by louden_swain
Here is what I can't understand.

Why use multiple sets, when you can attack a muscle using one set to failure?

To me the 5 x 5 method does not totally test your total maximum output, once you hit 5 reps you stop, when you may be able to get an additional 2 reps.

For me all non-failure sets are used for warmups at 50-70% of total max.

What will extra sets do for a trainer? When you see 5 x 5, what is it about the 5 sets that will make you grow?

The idea of training is to breakdown muscle so a person can spend time eating and resting. When this happens the muscle will grow and learn how to adapt to the stress.


Well Louden I dont like training to failure, and I feel that failure training is very hard to recover from. Therefore, I will do multiple sets because Im not training at the level of intensity you would be performing by going to failure on one set. And the idea of training under a 5x5 program is progressive load, and in order to do so one tries to stay away from taking any sets to failure. Stopping short of failure is allowing me to add weight to the bar every week. I think that the muscle will grow if it is experiencing an increase in resistance every week, and this is what occurs on a successful 5x5 routine. When I was performing a low volume, failure training program I found that I had a very difficult time adding weight to the bar the following week(s).

 

[louden_swain]

Originally posted by louden_swain
Here is what I can't understand.

Why use multiple sets, when you can attack a muscle using one set to failure?

To me the 5 x 5 method does not totally test your total maximum output, once you hit 5 reps you stop, when you may be able to get an additional 2 reps.

For me all non-failure sets are used for warmups at 50-70% of total max.

What will extra sets do for a trainer? When you see 5 x 5, what is it about the 5 sets that will make you grow?

The idea of training is to breakdown muscle so a person can spend time eating and resting. When this happens the muscle will grow and learn how to adapt to the stress.


Well Louden I dont like training to failure, and I feel that failure training is very hard to recover from. Therefore, I will do multiple sets because Im not training at the level of intensity you would be performing by going to failure on one set. And the idea of training under a 5x5 program is progressive load, and in order to do so one tries to stay away from taking any sets to failure. Stopping short of failure is allowing me to add weight to the bar every week. I think that the muscle will grow if it is experiencing an increase in resistance every week, and this is what occurs on a successful 5x5 routine. When I was performing a low volume, failure training program I found that I had a very difficult time adding weight to the bar the following week(s).

This is a reasonable answer. I have tried the 5 x 5 program in the past, but I never felt like I was giving it 110. Using the one set to failure I can recover and add reps and weight to the bar each week. I love the mental and physical challenge that one set to failure provides.

To me, performing 5 sets of 5 reps with the same weight would become boring. I feel that taking a set one set to failure, lets say 8 reps is enough to get me motivated to get 9 reps for the next workout. The excitement never dies, because you are always thinking about that next workout. With 5 x 5, you put a certain weight on the bar the following week, but you may only get 5 5 5 4 3 in reps. Then you have to stay at the same weight for the following week just so you can get 5 5 5 5 5. With one set to failure you can get 9 the following week. In the third week, if you can get only 9 reps, the fourth week you decrease the weight and attempt to get more reps setting a personal record; this may be 11-13 reps. With the 5 x 5 program everything is fixed, so if you have to lower the weight to get 5 x 5, essentially you are not making progress.

 

[casualbb]

I could maybe do more than one day per week on my arms or chest, but would this affect any of my other days?

No it wouldn't. If you feel you could do it, by all means.

-casualbb

 

[BlkWS6]

Louden: I totally agree with regarding the excitement and the intensity of training to failure (specifically DC's program). My training partner and I were truly having a blast pushing each other to the limit and beyond on the program, but unfortunately both of us hit a wall. Im not totally out for the count on DC training. I think I will try it again in the future, when I have more time to dedicate to every aspect of my training, not just the time I spend in the gym. You are right, the 5x5 can get a little dull but mostly if you arent adding weight every week. Although the rep scheme stays constant, putting that extra plate on every week really keeps the motivation and interest high. And if one doesnt successfully get all their 5x5, or just gets downright bored of that rep scheme there are numerous alternatives that are effective and still focus on a progressive load. In fact Im currently doing 4 sets where the first 3 are 5 reps and the last set (4th) is a set of 8 reps. All the principles of the 5x5 apply to this variation, but it is something to "spice up" the monotony of the program and cause some new growth! Thanks for your input Louden.

 

[Toozee]

All of this is great information. Exactly the discussion I was hoping to see.

Concerning the DC diet:

I see 2xbw in protein, 4tbsp of olive oil, and no/trace carbs after 6 or 7pm. I dont really see any other definitive guidelines besides these (unless I missed 'em).
Is there a calorie per day to bw ratio ? Are there any other guidelines for this diet that need to be followed ? What I'm asking is are there any other formulae that can be used to figure certain intakes on this diet. It seems the more customized the diet is for a person (given they know how their body reacts), the closer someone could get to their mass gain/ bf% goal at the end of a bulk.

Just trying to see what I can plug in to the DC diet to get an idea of what the diet may look like, without going in and breaking down the macro nutrients of the example diet.

--Again thanks to ALL for the influx of info.

 

[casualbb]

Here's a pet peeve of mine: Everybody going "DC diet" this, "DC diet that," as if DC invented a high protein, high calorie diet. Good for him for utilizing it, but such a diet idea has existed for a long time. I suspect some of the reputed DC gains can be attributed to finally eating correctly instead of the plan itself.

-casualbb

 

[louden_swain]

Here's a pet peeve of mine: Everybody going "DC diet" this, "DC diet that," as if DC invented a high protein, high calorie diet. Good for him for utilizing it, but such a diet idea has existed for a long time. I suspect some of the reputed DC gains can be attributed to finally eating correctly instead of the plan itself.

-casualbb

You have never even tried the program sonny boy.

 

[gmanlax7]

casualbb is right

i doubt the DC diet is much different from the 5x5 diet or the WSB diet

the basic premise of all diets aimed at putting on muscle/strength is eat a ton of protein and get good fats

do not get hung up on name

 

[Debaser]

There's actually quite a bit more to it than that. In fact I'm writing a handbook on it now, and it's approaching 3 pages worth of info. Obviously some of this could be distilled, but it's much more than just "high protein, high calories"

 

[BlkWS6]

I only brought up the diet, because I was just unable to get near 500g of protein a day and that is a major part of the diet (2x bodyweight in protein) . I never thought the idea was something revolutionary, but according to DC and followers the diet is very crucial to the success of the routine (which obviously makes sense) and I just brought up the point that I just had one hell of a time consuming that much protein and maybe that is why I didnt do so great on the routine. I also questioned the fact that maybe this new exposure to such high amounts of protein that people werent consuming before has led to such big results, but Im sure that an experienced lifter like Louden probably was consuming a lot of protein before DC training and he says he is making gains.

 

[casualbb]

There's actually quite a bit more to it than that. In fact I'm writing a handbook on it now, and it's approaching 3 pages worth of info. Obviously some of this could be distilled, but it's much more than just "high protein, high calories"

Cool, make sure to post it up when you finish, I want to read it. I'll be the first to admit, diet and supplementation is one aspect of training I know the least about.

-casualbb

 

[JOKER47]

casualbb is right

i doubt the DC diet is much different from the 5x5 diet or the WSB diet

the basic premise of all diets aimed at putting on muscle/strength is eat a ton of protein and get good fats

do not get hung up on name

The only WSB diet I have ever heard of is the one I currently follow....The "Eat a Frickin Metric Ton" diet......

Been workin' well for me......


Joker

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

In all fairness I dont post alot about my diet beliefs much (I am kind of vague in what I say)--That is because I have to keep a little something for the people that I personally train online regarding training, supplementation, diet etc--to be fair to them.

With that said forget doggcrapp training--IM GOING WITH 5X5!!

(just kidding)

****the above post brought to you by a man who just had a bowl of applejacks and is wavering thru a sugar induced stupor (ok ok it was an eggwhite omelet)

 

[Toozee]

There's actually quite a bit more to it than that. In fact I'm writing a handbook on it now, and it's approaching 3 pages worth of info. Obviously some of this could be distilled, but it's much more than just "high protein, high calories"

Cool post up when you can. That will be interesting.
If I base the diet on what is in the article then it will be something similar to a diet I have done before. And yes, as soon as I got that diet down, the gains kicked in.

-That is because I have to keep a little something for the people that I personally train online regarding training, supplementation, diet etc--to be fair to them.

Hey, ya gotta keep something for yourself.
Don't blame ya.

 

[needsize]

Since 5x5 and DC are so different, I think a trainer would get great results cycling back and forth between the two

 

[Toozee]

That's kind of what I was thinking about doing as a
long term plan.