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I'd like to hear from people that have used Dbol while dieting. I know when most of us think of diet drugs we think of Fina, Ox, Winny, Primo etc.. Truth be told ANY anabolic steroid would work while dieting when muscle preservation/fat loss is the goal. However we also know some drugs, especially Fina, Ox and Primo, have the ability to actually promote LBM gains even while dieting.
I'm curious as to the specific results people have seen while using Dbol on a diet. Did you manage to only prevent muscle catabolism while dieting or did you walk away with some LBM to boot? I am considering running a little experiment in a few weeks to go along with my new diet and I wanted to hear from those with experience with Dbol.
I am considering using Dbol and Ox in a 6 week diet cycle and hope to walk away with perhaps 5lbs of LBM along with a significant loss of fat. I've done this before with both Fina and Ox alone, but I'm theorizing that Dbol/Ox will have a synergistic effect and may work even better. Let alone this cycle would be significantly cheaper than a high dose Ox only cycle.
My reasoning is Oxandrolone is a class I drug and Dbol is a class II so they should combine well. Bill Roberts has even theorized these as a good stack together and it seems logical. If Ox alone can promote LBM and strength gains in a hypocaloric state then it seems that the addition of Dbol could only make this better. I know the first thing that comes to mind is that running two 17aa orals together is a liver killer. However it is also my theory that running different 17aa orals together will have no different effect on the liver than a single oral so long as dosages are consistent. Meaning 50mg of Dbol will have the same effect on the liver as 25mg Dbol and 25mg of Ox together.
My plan is to run 35mg of Dbol and 20mg of Ox daily to get the benfits of both. I've been dieting for 16 weeks now(my diet is outlined on the diet board) and am planning to do a week long refeed to prepare me for the rest of my diet. When I come back I will start my new diet plan and will most likely use this cycle as well. The diet will be similar to what Par Deus is currently running which is a 1.5 day diet and a 0.5 day refeed always falling on a workout day. So my schedule would look like this:
Day 1: 2100 cals (50/30/20 - pro/fat/carbs) Light Cardio
Day 2: Same breakdown as day 1 but only followed for 3 meals(1150 cals). Workout #1 followed by refeed consisting of 3 meals([50% above AMR/2] to account for the half day = ~2200 cals)(60/30/10 carbs/pro/fat).
Day 3: 2100 cals (50/30/20 - pro/fat/carbs) Light Cardio
Day 4: Same breakdown as day 1 but only followed for 3 meals(1150 cals). Workout #2 followed by refeed consisting of 3 meals([50% above AMR/2] to account for the half day = ~2200 cals)(60/30/10 carbs/pro/fat).
Day 5: 2100 cals (50/30/20 - pro/fat/carbs) Light Cardio
Day 6: Same breakdown as day 1, but only followed for 3 meals(1150 cals). Workout #3 followed by refeed consisting of 3 meals([50% above AMR/2] to account for the half day = ~2200 cals)(60/30/10 carbs/pro/fat).
Repeat from Day 1.
In pure energy deficit numbers(assuming AMR is 3000 cals), then I am still in the hole 1600 cals after 6 days. This is half a pound of pure fat loss a week(no muscle), combined with LBM gains. Not to mention that due to glycogen replacement during the refeed some of those carb cals don't count exactly towards the energy deficit anyways.
I will also be running l-dex at 0.5mg EOD to start and only go higher if I notice estrogen side effects or severe water bloat. I'll also be running 12.5mcg of T3 to help with nutrient partitioning to promote the LBM gains. I will run this for 6 weeks then taper off of the Dbol for 2 weeks and take clomid for 3. So week 7 I'll take something like 15mg in the morning only while starting my clomid. Then week 8 I'll drop it to 5-10mg morning only with clomid. Then Week 9 will be clomid only and hopefully my natural test will be up and running by then.
My theory is that the AS will preserve muscle mass for the 1.5 days of dieting. Then the short term refeed will restore leptin levels and hopefully promote some LBM gains during this overeating period without fat gain. The restored leptin levels will ensure that the next 36 hours of dieting will favor fat loss over muscle until the next refeed. I'm hoping 6 weeks of this method will results in some decent gains in LBM combined with a significant amount of fat loss. I'd run it longer but I've been on low dose Ox for a few weeks already and need to give my body a break and let my HPTA levels come back to normal.
At any rate regardless of who says it "won't work" I will most likely do it for myself. I love to experiment and put lame myths to rest. I do believe oral only cycles can promote great retainable gains if diet and workouts are optimal. I also got better gains on a 6 week transdermal fina cycle than many other get injecting so I laugh at those who says transdermal is "wasting fina".
At any rate any who have had experiences dieting with Dbol please chime in with your results. If this works as well as I'm hoping I will most likely adopt something similar while bulking as I never want to go over a specific bodyfat level ever again. I have no doubt 6 weeks of pure dieting or 6 weeks of pure bulking would have better results either way, but I think 2 cycle of this method would be no different than 1 cycle of bulking and 1 cycle of diet. All while staying leaner the whole time and not announcing to the world you're taking AS due to the massive weight fluctuations.
I'm curious as to the specific results people have seen while using Dbol on a diet. Did you manage to only prevent muscle catabolism while dieting or did you walk away with some LBM to boot? I am considering running a little experiment in a few weeks to go along with my new diet and I wanted to hear from those with experience with Dbol.
I am considering using Dbol and Ox in a 6 week diet cycle and hope to walk away with perhaps 5lbs of LBM along with a significant loss of fat. I've done this before with both Fina and Ox alone, but I'm theorizing that Dbol/Ox will have a synergistic effect and may work even better. Let alone this cycle would be significantly cheaper than a high dose Ox only cycle.
My reasoning is Oxandrolone is a class I drug and Dbol is a class II so they should combine well. Bill Roberts has even theorized these as a good stack together and it seems logical. If Ox alone can promote LBM and strength gains in a hypocaloric state then it seems that the addition of Dbol could only make this better. I know the first thing that comes to mind is that running two 17aa orals together is a liver killer. However it is also my theory that running different 17aa orals together will have no different effect on the liver than a single oral so long as dosages are consistent. Meaning 50mg of Dbol will have the same effect on the liver as 25mg Dbol and 25mg of Ox together.
My plan is to run 35mg of Dbol and 20mg of Ox daily to get the benfits of both. I've been dieting for 16 weeks now(my diet is outlined on the diet board) and am planning to do a week long refeed to prepare me for the rest of my diet. When I come back I will start my new diet plan and will most likely use this cycle as well. The diet will be similar to what Par Deus is currently running which is a 1.5 day diet and a 0.5 day refeed always falling on a workout day. So my schedule would look like this:
Day 1: 2100 cals (50/30/20 - pro/fat/carbs) Light Cardio
Day 2: Same breakdown as day 1 but only followed for 3 meals(1150 cals). Workout #1 followed by refeed consisting of 3 meals([50% above AMR/2] to account for the half day = ~2200 cals)(60/30/10 carbs/pro/fat).
Day 3: 2100 cals (50/30/20 - pro/fat/carbs) Light Cardio
Day 4: Same breakdown as day 1 but only followed for 3 meals(1150 cals). Workout #2 followed by refeed consisting of 3 meals([50% above AMR/2] to account for the half day = ~2200 cals)(60/30/10 carbs/pro/fat).
Day 5: 2100 cals (50/30/20 - pro/fat/carbs) Light Cardio
Day 6: Same breakdown as day 1, but only followed for 3 meals(1150 cals). Workout #3 followed by refeed consisting of 3 meals([50% above AMR/2] to account for the half day = ~2200 cals)(60/30/10 carbs/pro/fat).
Repeat from Day 1.
In pure energy deficit numbers(assuming AMR is 3000 cals), then I am still in the hole 1600 cals after 6 days. This is half a pound of pure fat loss a week(no muscle), combined with LBM gains. Not to mention that due to glycogen replacement during the refeed some of those carb cals don't count exactly towards the energy deficit anyways.
I will also be running l-dex at 0.5mg EOD to start and only go higher if I notice estrogen side effects or severe water bloat. I'll also be running 12.5mcg of T3 to help with nutrient partitioning to promote the LBM gains. I will run this for 6 weeks then taper off of the Dbol for 2 weeks and take clomid for 3. So week 7 I'll take something like 15mg in the morning only while starting my clomid. Then week 8 I'll drop it to 5-10mg morning only with clomid. Then Week 9 will be clomid only and hopefully my natural test will be up and running by then.
My theory is that the AS will preserve muscle mass for the 1.5 days of dieting. Then the short term refeed will restore leptin levels and hopefully promote some LBM gains during this overeating period without fat gain. The restored leptin levels will ensure that the next 36 hours of dieting will favor fat loss over muscle until the next refeed. I'm hoping 6 weeks of this method will results in some decent gains in LBM combined with a significant amount of fat loss. I'd run it longer but I've been on low dose Ox for a few weeks already and need to give my body a break and let my HPTA levels come back to normal.
At any rate regardless of who says it "won't work" I will most likely do it for myself. I love to experiment and put lame myths to rest. I do believe oral only cycles can promote great retainable gains if diet and workouts are optimal. I also got better gains on a 6 week transdermal fina cycle than many other get injecting so I laugh at those who says transdermal is "wasting fina".
At any rate any who have had experiences dieting with Dbol please chime in with your results. If this works as well as I'm hoping I will most likely adopt something similar while bulking as I never want to go over a specific bodyfat level ever again. I have no doubt 6 weeks of pure dieting or 6 weeks of pure bulking would have better results either way, but I think 2 cycle of this method would be no different than 1 cycle of bulking and 1 cycle of diet. All while staying leaner the whole time and not announcing to the world you're taking AS due to the massive weight fluctuations.
