Critique my friend's cycle.

[Train Harder]

Hey everyone,
This is my friend's current bulking cycle. The following is for one month, as he doesn't like long cycles. So he'll be on for one month off the next on, off, on, off.
Anyways here goes.
250mg - Primotestan every other day
200mg - Deca every other day
50mg - D-Bol everyday

5,000 I.U. hcg starting 2 weeks after last shot every three days.

His current stats are 6' 270lbs.@about 9%bf. He's done a couple of contests and his last was the 2000 Jan Tana where he placed second.

 

[lawnsaver]

I dont like the choices of test of deca. I would have used Durabolan and prop in short cycles. The gear kicks in much faster and works better in short periods of time. Also I would use the HCG in smaller doses(500ius) on every Saturday and Sunday throughout the cycle. This will keep the chances of becoming desensitized to the effects of LH. Also it will nulify the chances of any atrophy to happen. Fina would have been a better choice than deca. Also during his off month, I would use slin with creatine and glutamine for the 30 days. This will add to the bulk!

 

[Train Harder]

Thanks lawnsaver

 

[40butpumpin]

...Fina would have been a better choice than deca...

I feel that if he does this with fina for an extended period of time (4 on, 4 off, 4 on, etc.) he'll run the risk of some very serious sides. I know it took a lot more than 4 weeks for me to bounce back from just 4 weeks of tren. The same may go for the fast acting deca, however. Train Harder, I think you'll do yourself a world of good if you give yourself 8 full weeks 'tween 4-week cycle instead of just 4. Also, even with that I think the fast acting deca is a better choice. Tren is just too brutal on the prostate for repeated usage like that IMO. I'd also save the HCG for after the 4 weeks were finished and hit it for a solid 2 weeks at 500iu ed. Not to be in disagreement, just a humble opinion.

hth, 40.

 

[Spidey]

I feel that if he does this with fina for an extended period of time (4 on, 4 off, 4 on, etc.) he'll run the risk of some very serious sides. I know it took a lot more than 4 weeks for me to bounce back from just 4 weeks of tren. The same may go for the fast acting deca, however. Train Harder, I think you'll do yourself a world of good if you give yourself 8 full weeks 'tween 4-week cycle instead of just 4. Also, even with that I think the fast acting deca is a better choice. Tren is just too brutal on the prostate for repeated usage like that IMO. I'd also save the HCG for after the 4 weeks were finished and hit it for a solid 2 weeks at 500iu ed. Not to be in disagreement, just a humble opinion.

hth, 40.

Hi 40butpumpn. I have never seen any data on the effects of tren on the prostate. Could you post an abstract of the study? Thanks.

-Spidey

 

[Stillgoing]

Hi 40butpumpn. I have never seen any data on the effects of tren on the prostate. Could you post an abstract of the study? Thanks.

-Spidey

40 probably doesn't have a "study" handy....But - he does know from personal experience. This may have to suffice for you....

 

[pennypacker]

I am a novice, so this is more of a question than a critique.

Deca has a long half-life (I've read 7-10 days), so at 700mg/week (ie, 200mg/eod), your friend will still have a lot of deca in his system even after he stops injecting. In other words, he will be "on" even during his "off" month. Isn't that both dangerous and ineffective?

Clearly, if he is competing, he knows more about this than I do, but I'd be grateful if you/he could explain the logic.

 

[lawnsaver]

I havent seen any info on tren and the prostate either.

Also, the reason for the use of HCG for 2 days on 5 off, it to make sure that not atrophy ever happens. If you wait 4 weeks before use, atrophy can set in. Some atrophy does not revert. I have used HCG 3 times after I got atrophy and my right testicle still doesnt respond. Again, through a long conversation with a Doctor who uses gear, said if you use small doses thoughout your cycle, atrophy will never set in. If I had done this, I would still have 2 good testicles. This is not an opinion from me, but info passed on by a Doctor who works specifically with body builders(mostly).

Tren is hard on the HPTA, as well and Durabloan, so go with Prop, winny, and anavar. But again, if HCG is utlilzed throughout the cycle to make sure no atrophy sets in, your buddy will be fine.

40But, I do agree that he should take more time off. 6-8 weeks would be much better. That way clomid could do something to restart his HPTA.

 

[Spidey]

40 probably doesn't have a "study" handy....But - he does know from personal experience. This may have to suffice for you....

Everyone responds differently to any AS. Personal experience is good and all, but doesn't neccessarily hold true for everyone. I have only used tren once, but had no problems with BPH, dark urine, or many of the sides that people complain about on tren. A close friend of mine was on tren at 100 mg ed for 6 weeks and got NOTHING from it; no gains and no sides. I would have thought his gear was bunk but I made it myself so I know better. The poor guy appears to be not just steroid resistant, but steroid PROOF!

-Spidey

 

[lawnsaver]

I am a novice, so this is more of a question than a critique.

Deca has a long half-life (I've read 7-10 days), so at 700mg/week (ie, 200mg/eod), your friend will still have a lot of deca in his system even after he stops injecting. In other words, he will be "on" even during his "off" month. Isn't that both dangerous and ineffective?

Clearly, if he is competing, he knows more about this than I do, but I'd be grateful if you/he could explain the logic.

This is one of the major points we are trying to make. Actually Nandrlone Decotanate's ester has a 15 day half life. It is a very poor choice in a short cycle. Duranbolan's half life is 2-3 days, which makes it a much better choice, but still not a good one. Tren is faster acting too, but still very hard on the HPTA.

I do not like short cycles, but if you were going to do one with hopes of small gains with limited effects on yoru HPTA, I would choice 2 week on 2 -3 off! the 3 off weeks would have slin in there to keep the body anabolic. Also if your wallet permits, I would buy 2 kits of GH and take 2 ius 5 on 2 off for 24 weeks while on there short cycles. It will be very effective at keeping a positive nitrogen balance while on your off weeks, while counter-acting the possible fat deposits of the slin!

 

[Stillgoing]

Everyone responds differently to any AS. Personal experience is good and all, but doesn't neccessarily hold true for everyone

-Spidey

Absolutely agree. Also however, obviously just because some PHD in an office somewhere whos never lifted a weight with a need to publish something to get funded generates a study its gospel either....

BTW I've never had prostate problems from it either. Ephedrine is the only thing that has done it to me....

 

[40butpumpin]

Man after a lay-off from walking pneumonia I did legs and chest in the last 3 days and I'm sore as a mofo so I just had to take a nap, feel better now though...

No studies, Spidey, sorry. I never looked to tell you the truth, however, I can't imagine there'd be any since it's not used on humans in any capacity that I'm aware of. Stillgoing is right, my knowledge is from my experience, so you can take it or leave it if you like. But as far as your buddy on 100mg ed for 6 weeks and got zippo, I'd question if he wasn't injecting plain oil, seriously.

I'm really at a loss as to why some don't experience this because in terms of a physiological side such as BPH is, there shouldn't really be any variation. Anxiety, on the other hand, I could see because we all have different thresholds wrt anxiety and depression. But there's no history of prostate problems on either side of my family and I've never had it before that.

Lawnsaver, I'm going to try what you said about the HCG. My thought was that he wasn't on long enough inside of 4 weeks for HPTA to go awry. I truly never heard of using HCG inside of 4 weeks before but you know what I have nothing to lose by trying this, so thanks for bringing that to light!

Lastly, I agree to disagee, however, I'm positive there's more bro's out there who've had BPH from tren. Now I need some protein! Take care bro's!

 

[lawnsaver]

I too debated with this doctor over on AnaSci for hours, but his logic seemed solid. If atrophy never sets in, no damage is done. I dont think the HCG will stop you from suppressing your HPTA, but it will allow for an easier recovery. Also, you will get better gains if using HCG all the way through. Also its low enough not to desensitize your testicles rom LH. Again, I have never tried it, but the logic is there!

 

[Train Harder]

I am a novice, so this is more of a question than a critique.

Deca has a long half-life (I've read 7-10 days), so at 700mg/week (ie, 200mg/eod), your friend will still have a lot of deca in his system even after he stops injecting. In other words, he will be "on" even during his "off" month. Isn't that both dangerous and ineffective?

Clearly, if he is competing, he knows more about this than I do, but I'd be grateful if you/he could explain the logic.

His theory is get in and get out but you still grow during your off time. He said in the past he did the normal 8, 12, 16 week cycles but since switching hito 1 month cycles his gains are greater. I'll post his other cycles later as he does them. He said this is what works best for him.

 

[40butpumpin]

His theory is get in and get out but you still grow during your off time. He said in the past he did the normal 8, 12, 16 week cycles but since switching hito 1 month cycles his gains are greater. I'll post his other cycles later as he does them. He said this is what works best for him.

Well at "6' 270lbs.@about 9%bf," he's got something figured out. lol Seriously, I'm curious to know how long he feels he can continue with that approach. I'm always thinking long-haul.

 

[Spidey]

Man after a lay-off from walking pneumonia I did legs and chest in the last 3 days and I'm sore as a mofo so I just had to take a nap, feel better now though...

No studies, Spidey, sorry. I never looked to tell you the truth, however, I can't imagine there'd be any since it's not used on humans in any capacity that I'm aware of. Stillgoing is right, my knowledge is from my experience, so you can take it or leave it if you like. But as far as your buddy on 100mg ed for 6 weeks and got zippo, I'd question if he wasn't injecting plain oil, seriously.

I'm really at a loss as to why some don't experience this because in terms of a physiological side such as BPH is, there shouldn't really be any variation. Anxiety, on the other hand, I could see because we all have different thresholds wrt anxiety and depression. But there's no history of prostate problems on either side of my family and I've never had it before that.

Lawnsaver, I'm going to try what you said about the HCG. My thought was that he wasn't on long enough inside of 4 weeks for HPTA to go awry. I truly never heard of using HCG inside of 4 weeks before but you know what I have nothing to lose by trying this, so thanks for bringing that to light!

Lastly, I agree to disagee, however, I'm positive there's more bro's out there who've had BPH from tren. Now I need some protein! Take care bro's!

You obviously have more experience than I do and I am definitely not trying to say that personal experience is worthless. All I was saying is that I have seen more people post on this board with positive experiences with tren than with negative.

As far as tren not being used on humans, I don't think that is quite accurate. Parabolan was a human use steroid and was very popular. It is just tren with a different ester. I have looked in a few veterinary medicine journals for articles about the effects of tren on cattle renal function and so far haven't found any evidence of undue renal toxicity (in cattle anyway). I've never seen anything on the effects of tren on the prostate though.

As far as my friend goes, I isolated the tren acetate myself and purified it to a crystalline powder (I am a chemist). I dissolved it up in benzyl benzoate and benzyl alcohol and diluted with sesame oil to get a final concentration of 100 mg/mL. I split what I had in two and gave him half. I took the other half for my cycle and gained 25 lbs (18 of that in three weeks). Trust me; I'm confident when I say he wasn't injecting just oil.

-Spidey

 

[40butpumpin]

You obviously have more experience than I do and I am definitely not trying to say that personal experience is worthless. All I was saying is that I have seen more people post on this board with positive experiences with tren than with negative.

As far as tren not being used on humans, I don't think that is quite accurate. Parabolan was a human use steroid and was very popular. It is just tren with a different ester. I have looked in a few veterinary medicine journals for articles about the effects of tren on cattle renal function and so far haven't found any evidence of undue renal toxicity (in cattle anyway). I've never seen anything on the effects of tren on the prostate though.

As far as my friend goes, I isolated the tren acetate myself and purified it to a crystalline powder (I am a chemist). I dissolved it up in benzyl benzoate and benzyl alcohol and diluted with sesame oil to get a final concentration of 100 mg/mL. I split what I had in two and gave him half. I took the other half for my cycle and gained 25 lbs (18 of that in three weeks). Trust me; I'm confident when I say he wasn't injecting just oil.

-Spidey

I believe you, however, that is amazing.

I don't know about my having more experience and I hope I'm not coming off as some kind of expert, God knows I'm not. I just know what I experience(d) and if I can help someone based on that then I'm happy to.

As far as Parabolan I know its similarities to tren and that it once was a very popular drug, apparently especially in combination with winny, however, I don't know that it was ever used in a sense that would have made worthy of study by anyone interested in the effects on prostate. But I could be talking right out of my ass here and there may be indeed be studies out there but I have not seen or heard of any.

I would only disagree with you on the number of bro's not having a positive experience with tren. But after both of our experiences, yours good and mine bad, I imagine there's inherent bias in what we're allowing to filter in. Either way, it's no biggie and I say more power to you and whomever does well on it. I'm just trying to add some balance for newbies as the positive voice seems to be much more prevalent than the negative one.

 

[Spidey]

I believe you, however, that is amazing.

What is even more amazing is that he was also shooting 150 mg ed test prop. That's 1.75 grams total gear per week and NO GAINS! And that was his FIRST CYCLE! The only sign that he was taking anything was (according to his wife) he was horny as a billy goat . He has since consulted with a doctor friend of his who is knowledgable about steroids and together, they have worked out a cycle and diet for him to try. We went in together and bought a case of tren and some dbol. I think he is planning to run 150 mg ed tren and 25 mg ed dbol and 150 mg ed test prop for 8 weeks. We'll see if he get's anything out of it this time, LOL.

-Spidey

 

[Train Harder]

Well at "6' 270lbs.@about 9%bf," he's got something figured out. lol Seriously, I'm curious to know how long he feels he can continue with that approach. I'm always thinking long-haul.

He hasn't been using as to long. He's 35 now and didn't start until he was 30. This is the first time he's taken anything in 1 1/2 years so he's hoping for good results.