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Creatine

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Legion Kreinak2

New member
What are the issues you guys have had with creatine, and how should it be taken?

I typically hear
1) Bloated look (coupled with excess fat)
2) Cramps (from not enough water)

And the container I have says
10 grams for 5 days
then 5 grams everyday after that

Is that accurate? I heard from people on here to use 20 grams for 4 days to load.

How should I cycle this stuff?
 
The 10 grams is right... you need to load up on it for at least 5 days, and don't workout those days. Drink PLENTY of water too. Then you can go down to 5 grams. The whole point of creatine is to hold back water, giving you the bigger look. Also, to avoid cramps, just up the water intake, it's not a big deal. :)
 
You absolutely can/should work out during the loading phase.

Take 20g/day for 5 days (5g at a time, 4x per day), then take 5g every day after that. You should cycle it, no more than 3 months on, and take at least 1 full month off.

When you take it, you should mix it with at least 50g of simple carbs, and maybe some whey protein, if you like.
 
When's the best time to take it when loading, and then when should I take it when on maintenance?

If I load with 20 grams I could see morning and night, and just 2 times with meals throughout the day.

On maintenance I'm guessing post-workout?
 
I drink enough water to cause a drought in small countries, yet I STILL cramp when taking creatine (when I play soccer).

Pre and during the game I keep my electrolytes and fluids up with a good sports drink mix. There is no way I am not taking enough fluids in. I add extra potassium to my drinks too. Consequently, I've had to avoid creatine because I can't afford uncontrolled cramping during my games.
 
Don't take it with meals. Give yourself a window of about 2 hours before and at least 30 minutes after. You want your stomach to be empty so the creatine and sugar get through it quick and get absorbed immediately.
 
Disregard the label instructions and take your creatine pre-workout. Research has shown that when creatine is floating around during exercise it is more heavily absorbed.

-casual
 
casualbb said:
Disregard the label instructions and take your creatine pre-workout. Research has shown that when creatine is floating around during exercise it is more heavily absorbed.

-casual
Click to expand...

Good point. Research also shows creatine serum levels in the blood peak about 2 hrs after supplementation.
 
BULLSHIT on this thread, bro listen take a total of no more than 5 grams a day, the loading thing is b.s., take it either pre and post workout or mix it with water and take it during the workout.
 
Take it before workouts with a sugar drink. Carbonated sugar drinks, if of a high GI nature, may enhance its uptake in the digestive tract.

No need to load. I take 5 grams. If I had a low amount of animal flesh in my diet, I'd take 10 grams.

It will not make you fat. The only bloat you might get is from gastrointestinal upset.

It does not cause bloating elsewhere, despite what people say. It is transported into muscle. It draws intracellular water. It does not make a big impact on extracellular water, so claims of loss of definition can be due to some kind of allergic-type reaction or the fact that people eat like crap a lot of the time when their metabolisms are simply not particualrly fast. Then they blame their fat gains on the creatine if that happens.

I've used creatine while bulking and while cutting. When cutting, it makes me appear even more cut because of the cell volumization, which enhances the appearance of my muscles. When bulking, it does the same, but I have fast metabolism. Someone with a slow metabolism will eat to bulk, take creatine, get fatter because he is bulking, and then look to demonize the substance.
 
i took 20g for 10 days then 15g for 10 days then 10g and so on all the way down to 5g.. i gained 8 pounds and didnt lose any of it when i got off.. :) i think i invented something :p
 
TheOak84 said:
i took 20g for 10 days then 15g for 10 days then 10g and so on all the way down to 5g.. i gained 8 pounds and didnt lose any of it when i got off.. :) i think i invented something :p
Click to expand...
You invented a way to waste money...

The loading phase is NOT bullshit. It has been shown in studies to maximize muscle creatine levels in 5 days. If you only take 5g per day with no loading phase, it takes 30 days to accomplish the same.

There are a couple of threads in the supplements forum on creatine right now. Look there, I don't feel like typing it all again.
 
I did just that Nate, and it seems like there's a 50% chance of creatine being effective for people. And the bloating in the face doesn't sound too charming at all.

I'm starting to doubt this stuff.
 
natedog said:

You invented a way to waste money...

The loading phase is NOT bullshit. It has been shown in studies to maximize muscle creatine levels in 5 days. If you only take 5g per day with no loading phase, it takes 30 days to accomplish the same.

There are a couple of threads in the supplements forum on creatine right now. Look there, I don't feel like typing it all again.
Click to expand...

actually, i got 120g of creatine for free so i dont care how i took it... i dont buy supplements
 
natedog said:

You invented a way to waste money...

The loading phase is NOT bullshit. It has been shown in studies to maximize muscle creatine levels in 5 days. If you only take 5g per day with no loading phase, it takes 30 days to accomplish the same.

There are a couple of threads in the supplements forum on creatine right now. Look there, I don't feel like typing it all again.
Click to expand...

Over a course of 30 days, which costs more? The cycle that includes a loading phase.

If you want the cell volumization to be maximized as soon as possible, then load. If you are looking for the strength increase and increased reconstitution rate of energy molecules, then it won't matter much.
 
bigstve12 said:
loading is a waste of money. Your body can only handle so much creatine, what it doesnt need it pisses out.
Click to expand...
Why don't you address what I said instead of just spewing forth garbage information?

Originally posted by Baoh
Over a course of 30 days, which costs more? The cycle that includes a loading phase.

If you want the cell volumization to be maximized as soon as possible, then load. If you are looking for the strength increase and increased reconstitution rate of energy molecules, then it won't matter much.
Click to expand...
No, because it's not only the cell volumization that happens in those 5 days. The increased rate of energy recovery also happens at the same time. Personally, I'd rather be able to work out harder for 25 of those 30 days than worry about the extra $5 it cost me.


Legion Kreniak2, creatine is a very effective supplement, when taken correctly. It can also be a worthless or painful supplement if taken incorrectly. It works very well for me, time and time again, the way that I described taking it. There are people who don't respond to creatine, but the numbers I've heard are much much smaller than 50%. Most of that 50% are people who just don't take it correctly.
 
I have always heard that loading was a marketing scam; however, I did some homework and happened across this:

J Appl Physiol 81: 232-237, 1996;
Journal of Applied Physiology, Vol 81, Issue 1 232-237, Copyright © 1996 by American Physiological Society



Muscle creatine loading in men
E. Hultman, K. Soderlund, J. A. Timmons, G. Cederblad and P. L. Greenhaff

Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham, United Kingdom.

The effect of dietary creatine and supplementation on skeletal muscle creatine accumulation and subsequent degradation and on urinary creatinine excretion was investigated in 31 male subjects who ingested creatine in different quantities over varying time periods. Muscle total creatine concentration increased by approximately 20% after 6 days of creatine supplementation at a rate of 20 g/day. This elevated concentration was maintained when supplementation was continued at a rate of 2 g/day for a further 30 days. In the absence of 2 g/day supplementation, total creatine concentration gradually declined, such that 30 days after the cessation of supplementation the concentration was no different from the presupplementation value. During this period, urinary creatinine excretion was correspondingly increased. A similar, but more gradual, 20% increase in muscle total creatine concentration was observed over a period of 28 days when supplementation was undertaken at a rate of 3 g/day. In conclusion, a rapid way to "creatine load" human skeletal muscle is to ingest 20 g of creatine for 6 days. This elevated tissue concentration can then be maintained by ingestion of 2 g/day thereafter. The ingestion of 3 g creatine/day is in the long term likely to be as effective at raising tissue levels as this higher dose.

This is from 1996, but I have not yet found a recent study that contradicts it.

I don't use creatine as I never felt I got anything out of it. I did notice that I felt less bloat and cramping when I overloaded on water and took it with a balance of protein and carbs. From an energy perspective, which is the point of taking it, I noticed no difference (but I'm kinda hyper...lol).

Oh, one more thing...creatine uptake can be inhibited by caffeine too. :)
 
natedog said:


Legion Kreniak2, creatine is a very effective supplement, when taken correctly. It can also be a worthless or painful supplement if taken incorrectly.
what would be the "correct" way and "incorrecet" of taking creatine?
Click to expand...
 
The correct way, for me, is what I described earlier in this thread.

Incorrect ways...jeezus, so many....

-taking too much
-not drinking enough water with it
-not drinking enough water throughout the day
-taking liquid creatine syrum
-not taking it with simple carbs
-taking it with other food
-taking it too soon after a meal
-eating a meal too soon after taking creatine
-taking it with fruit juices or other drinks that contain citric acid

I'm sure I can't even think of all of the incorrect ways people have used creatine. These are just the big ones off the top of my head.
 
I always did better taking it WITH food, but as you said, it can affect us different ways. Here's another interesting abstract I ran across comparing supplementation with carbs vs protein:

Protein and carbohydrate induced augmentation of whole body creatine retention in humans
G. R. Steenge, E. J. Simpson, and P. L. Greenhaff
School of Biomedical Sciences, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham NG7 2UH, United Kingdom

This study investigated the effect of creatine supplementation in conjunction with protein and/or carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion on plasma creatine and serum insulin concentrations and whole body creatine retention. Twelve men consumed 4 × 5 g of creatine on four occasions in combination with 1) 5 g of CHO, 2) 50 g of protein and 47 g of CHO, 3) 96 g of CHO, or 4) 50 g of CHO. The increase in serum insulin was no different when the protein-CHO and high-CHO treatments were compared, but both were greater than the response recorded for the low-CHO treatment (both P < 0.05). As a consequence, body creatine retention was augmented by ~25% for protein-CHO and high-CHO treatments compared with placebo treatment. The areas under creatine- and insulin-time curves were related during the first oral challenge (r = 0.920, P < 0.05) but not after the fourth (r = 0.342). It is concluded, first, that the ingestion of creatine in conjunction with ~50 g of protein and CHO is as effective at potentiating insulin release and creatine retention as ingesting creatine in combination with almost 100 g of CHO. Second, the stimulatory effect of insulin on creatine disposal was diminished within the initial 24 h of supplementation.
 
What I have learned about creatine from five years of use:
1. Loading is worth it only if you plan to cycle your creatine
2. The only creatine worth taking is 100% pure pharmaceutical grade. If it does not say that it is crap.
3. Taking it with juice doesn't help. Taking it with a lot of water does
4. I belive a diet low in animal protein will benefit from creatine more than a good diet.
5. I like to use creatine at around 3-5 grams with 2 liters of water during to post workout. I do this for months at a time it makes you retain water, most of which within muscle tissue
 
spatts said:
In conclusion, a rapid way to "creatine load" human skeletal muscle is to ingest 20 g of creatine for 6 days. This elevated tissue concentration can then be maintained by ingestion of 2 g/day thereafter. The ingestion of 3 g creatine/day is in the long term likely to be as effective at raising tissue levels as this higher dose.
Click to expand...


A study in 2000 contradicted these results:

Currently, manufacturer's instructions and athletes' use of Cr follows a dosing regimen of a "loading" phase of 20 g/day (4 × 5 g) for 5 days and a maintenance dose of 3 to 5 g/day. Investigators have found that intramuscular tCr levels increase from 17 to >20% with a dosing regimen of 20 to 30 g for 2 or more days (Harris et al., 1992; Greenhaff et al., 1994; Balsom et al., 1995; Febbraio et al., 1995; Gordon et al., 1995; Hultman et al., 1996). It has also been reported that up to 20% of this increase is due to PCr (Harris et al., 1992; Gordon et al., 1995; Casey et al., 1996; Hultman et al., 1996; Vandenberghe et al., 1997, 1999). However, there does appear to be an upper limit of intramuscular tCr content at ~160 mmol kg1 of DM (Harris et al., 1992; Casey et al., 1996). Similar intramuscular PCr levels from this dosing regiment can be accomplished by taking 3 g/day over 30 days (Hultman et al., 1996). After ~2 days of loading, maximal accumulation of intramuscular Cr occurs and therefore amounts of >20 g/day are unnecessary (Terjung et al., 2000). The maximal accumulation of intramuscular tCr in humans is reflected in the progressive increase in urinary Cr with continuous Cr ingestion (Harris et al., 1992; Vandenberghe et al., 1997; Bermon et al., 1998; Maganaris and Maughan, 1998). Cr levels in humans can remain elevated for up to 1 month post-supplementation (Febbraio et al., 1995; Hultman et al., 1996).
 
http://www.usfa.biz

I just read a lot of that info on Creatine that people have been posting (Im not gonna lie, I definitely skimmed through it), but I figured Id pass this link along. I am continually amazed by how these products can benefit our training when we use them properly, but yet the govt continues to restrict them.

Anyways, check it out and send a letter to your local rep before they decide to ban creatine along with everything else. I'll get off my soapbox...:D
 
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