Coming off and extended cycle. Unusual problem.

[ArizonaFeeds]

I have come off a long(6 month) cycle of fina, test and anadrol and am now using androderm ( HRT). I am experiencing some symtpoms I have not had before. It is extremely painful to work out. My muscles burn excruciatingly. To the point where I have to quit. It is almost like a combination of the feeling of shin splints, like it is a very deep pain, and the normal burn of a good workout magnified by 10.

I feel it in whatever muscles are working at the time but seems to have started with my shoulder , shoulder girdle, arms. The only thing I can attribute it to (I think) is that I was just hitting it so hard and heavy for so long, and the gear was masking the pain and lethergy of being chronically overtrained. Now that I am off it is all catching up to me????

It is not my first cycle by any means. It is similair to years ago when I felt a kind of "shin splints" in my forearms from getting so strong and increasing the wieghts in the bench too quickly. It seemed to have come on when I recently made some dramatic increases in bench quickly. That was weeks after coming off too, ironically.

Anyway I was just wondering if anyone else has had similiar experiences. I am just taking some time off, resting, and taking anti-inflamatants. I figure I would see if this helps.

With users not being sure of the long term sides of Fina( long term use and at high doses and also sides of any of the fillers and binders that may inadvertantly get shot), I figure it cannot hurt to let others know what I am feeling and see if there are any others who report the same symptoms.

 

[satchboogie]

interesting...
bump for expert opinions.

 

[nuh_mizer]

I get the same kinda thing post cycle. My theory is, since you add water when you use gear (most gear) it also lubes your joints and keeps your muscles full of water. When you go off, your body has to aclimate itself to having less lube in your joints and in your muscles. Kinda like being dehydrated.

 

[ArizonaFeeds]

Interesting. If your theory is correct, how long does it take for YOU to recover? I wonder why I have never experienced it before. Maybe because I am getting OLD????

 

[PBR]

AZ this has something to do with the DEPLETION of a certain chemical in the body and muscles...I forgot what the name of it is or what thread I was on...fuck..sorry bro, someone will pick this up....those AAS , especially over that long of a period of time, will deplete this chemical...deca helps with it....someone will grab this...you will be ok- bro...hang in there a few....

 

[majutsu]

AZ this has something to do with the DEPLETION of a certain chemical in the body and muscles...I forgot what the name of it is or what thread I was on"

Is it cortisol? And can't this be blocked .... this catabolic backlash?

 

[Hoss]

Bro, it may just be a big increase in your red blood cell count. Probably so...As you stay off, you RBCC will go down. When you are "ON" your RBCC goes up dramatically...This is what causes the PUMP!! Sometimes the PUMP is so great, it hinders your work-out.

 

[PBR]

Is it cortisol? And can't this be blocked .... this catabolic backlash?

Maj...this is correct to some extent...the action of AAS blocks cortisol....those levels will remain high for awhile if the ancillary cycle is not put into place post cycle...the body adds (produces) more cortisol when the AAS are introduced...so the condition will remain elevated when the AAS are removed...this is what causes you to loose those wonderful gains....post cycles are a must if you want to keep these gains...as is a reduced quanity of the workout program.... elevated cortisol levels are painful...However, this is not what Iam trying to refer to...Winstrol and GH are king for depleting this chemical....hopefully this will help someone to answer this....little help guys...thanks

 

[AtLarge]

Just my thoughts, but i remember coming off a long heavy androgen cycle and had similar experiences. Sort of like was pushing a car that now was running low octane. I think its the reduction of water retention that now doesnt give the same power feeling nor levarage-My thoughts.....

 

[bseemba2001]

I’ve heard of joint problem, when people come of Deca. But I have never heard of this using any thing else. Did this start to happen after you were done with your post cycle?

 

[granby140]

bump this is interesting

 

[Stillgoing]

Bro, this may not be it at all, but, I'll mention it:

Are you sure the androderm has your test levels high enough? I get bad joint pain when my test level crashes post cycle. I feel like I'm 90yrs old. So - my thought was maybe despite the HRT your test levels have crashed anyway?? Just a thought.

 

[ArizonaFeeds]

I am not sure what my test levels are at now. I am sure they are lower than normal. I test low end of the normal range when off. I expect to not feel as good when I come off of a cycle anyway. BUt this is different.

What post cycle is being refered to as far as the removal or blocking of cortisol? I tapered off and did a post cycle including clomid and, if I felt I needed it, would use some nolvadexat 40 mg a day. I have really not lost any of the gains made. My BW is the same as when I was on. I am just not as hard or aggressive. My strength is still up there when I feel like working out.

STILL GOING- I am sure my test levels are in the basement after that long of a cycle. I am sure the androderm has me in the normal to low normal range at best as I am low normal naturally anyway. Unless the androderm has kept my own natural production from rebounding to my natural base. You see I use the androderm when off to keep me in the high-normal range from my low-normal base.

SOOO my question to you is. Just take more test, ya think? Which won't let me return to my natural state or go COMPLETELY off and let things go to whatever they will go to naturally. THEN... after a period of time that would allow me to have recovered fully, go back on the HRT? to get back to the high-normal range that I feel best at when "off"

 

[ArizonaFeeds]

yeah I know about the increase in RBCC and the pumps and all that. BUT you see, I did not have this pain when ON...so that is not it. The pumps I get are what I would expect for me in a natural state.

 

[ArizonaFeeds]

What about chronic overtraining...

and deep inflamation (deep fascia, etc...) or something along those lines? I am starting there. I will take about a week off, eat like a pig, hydrate well rest, and pump some anti-inflamatants. See if that helps.

 

[AtLarge]

bump







this for someone with post cycle cortisone spiking. The theory now with my docs is that this could be why i need to have a hip replacement-sorry not trying to steal-the thread just that i believe this post cycle cortical steroid rebound could be responsible or implicted in everything from muscular fatigue atrophy to necrosis of joints. Cortical steroids are also stromgly supported in sound climical studies(JAMA) to be tied tp post cycle anxiety and to some degree depression,

 

[T2O]

Bro you could load on some good old creatine if you aren't already loaded up. That could help to eliminate the hydration problem imo.....I would ask around about ani inflams beore hitting those. Many on this board advise against it. I would also hit everything you can to try and get the test levels up. Some say if your loaded on creatine for too long of a time and taking too much it can result in cramps and excesive burning yet I never had or never met anyone that had this happen. I would definitely take at least a week off... this is very intresting so I'll giver a bump also.

 

[solidspine]

I do long cycles just like yours and experience the same symptoms coming off.
It usually takes a month to recover, I don’t think it is the “gear masking the symptoms” but rather I don’t have as much strength and size when off gear. As you probably do, I take in tons of supplements, protein, and low crabs, creatine and especially glutamine.

 

[ArizonaFeeds]

AT LARGE

THAT was some good info. Very interesting. It seems I am not the only oe who has encountered this. I wonder why it has not been discussed before.

I am using creatine but I do it for only a month or so at a time because it is really hard on my stomach and gives me the runs.

What happened to the good old days when we thought we knew what we were doing. A little test, taper up and taper down while using a little novadex? Those high doses and LONG cycles cannot be good for you. It bothers me to think there are young guys and teenagers out there involved with them . They cannot be good for you. And I think must have lng term reprocussions.