Coffee and ALA

[gUiLe]

I have almost stopped my coffee consumption since I have read
what just a cup of coffee can do to insulin levels. I am at about
18% bf and want to be single digit by summer, so to me, every
little thing counts!! So, it got me thinking...since ALA is a great
glucose disposal agent, would it be of any benefit to take ALA
with coffee? The ONLY time I am drinking coffee now is before
a workout.
g

 

[Buld0g]

Bro I've heard the same thing about coffee and insulin but I don't think it's detrimental to dieting. I drank coffee for my show, all the way up to the last 4 days. And let me tell you, I was shredded beef. I went from 180 to 161 in 6 weeks. I have nor a fast or slow metabolism (mesomorph) so I don’t want you to think it’s because I’m blessed with a fast metabolism. I have to diet like the rest of us who aren’t blessed. Plus coffee is also a thermogenic agent do to the caffeine content so I would think the trade off would even out.

But on second hand I would say coffee and ALA would be a good idea if there is any truth to the raise of insulin from coffee.

That’s just my thoughts of course.

 

[SofaGeorge]

I asked around heavily in the diabetic community after reading the same articles about coffee. If seems word has been out there about coffee for a long time. (One girl said she had a friend who was shocked when she first realized that a cup of coffee and half a slice of toast sent her BS through the roof... but toast by itself didn't hit her hard.)

I'm taking 100mg r-ALA first thing in the morning with my coffee. I'll be using a continuous BG monitor very shortly. When I do I'll post the results.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Guile -- after reading about caffeine, I switched to non-caffinated coffee for about 1.5 months. During this period, I went on ALA and guess what -- it did nothing this time around -- even at 5 grams/day. Granted, I only stayed on 6 days as the lethargy was more than I wanted to deal with without seeing results. This is contrasted with my last experience with ALA where I was drinking caffeine and I lost 10 lb in 3 weeks (with most of the week coming off in 10 days).

So caffeine = use ALA. No caffeine = don't use ALA. (unless just for antioxidant)

Because caffeine has a relatively long life, I try to time my consumption now (yes, couldn't stand life without full-leaded coffee) with periods that I will not be ingesting any carbs for a space of 3+ hours.

 

[Ulter]

I would not limit r-ALA to only while consuming coffee.
AAS has been shown to cause insulin resistance and glucose intollerance[1,2] as well. So if you are not going to use it every day you should at least be using it while on.

[1] Insulin resistance and diminished glucose tolerance in powerlifters ingesting anabolic steroids.
Cohen JC, Hickman R. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1987 May;64(5):960-3

[2] Glucose intolerance and insulin resistance in aplastic anemia treated with oxymetholone.
Woodard TL, Burghen GA, Kitabchi AE, Wilimas JA. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1981 Nov;53(5):905-8

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I would not limit r-ALA to only while consuming coffee.
AAS has been shown to cause insulin resistance and glucose intollerance[1,2] as well. So if you are not going to use it every day you should at least be using it while on.

[1] Insulin resistance and diminished glucose tolerance in powerlifters ingesting anabolic steroids.
Cohen JC, Hickman R. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1987 May;64(5):960-3

[2] Glucose intolerance and insulin resistance in aplastic anemia treated with oxymetholone.
Woodard TL, Burghen GA, Kitabchi AE, Wilimas JA. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1981 Nov;53(5):905-8

I agree with this, but I think we need to get away from just talking about coffee -- it's any caffeine source taken in proximity to carb ingestion. Coffee, tea, pop, ECA, etc... When you take this into account, just about everybody is being effected on a daily basis.

 

[Ulter]

You're right of course, I was just following the original theme of the thread.

 

[AceFrehley]

Question - Is it the coffee or the caffeine?
What if you swich to Red Bull or some other Caffeine supplement without the coffee? I can't wake up without the shit!

 

[Buld0g]

I was always told that caffiene in pill form is much better for bodybuilders. Coffee is made with lots of other chemicals which are responsable for the raise in insulin

 

[THeMaCHinE]

It's the caffeine, not the coffee -- coffee is good!

It's the caffeine -- it's not the coffee. Actually, caffinated coffee is slightly better than a straight caffeine source because it contains quinides which may actually increase glucose disposal and improve insulin sensitivity (this topic needs to be studied further). Coffee is well studied for its other compounds that exert antioxidant effects.

While the quinide content of caffinated coffee isn't strong enough to counter the effects of the caffeine, it's better than drinking straight caffeine because there may at least be some inhibition of the negative insulin effect propogated by caffeine -- additionally, the quinides in decaf coffee may actually increase glucose and insulin tolerance. So, if you're a coffee lover, decaf is the way to go if you are taking in carbs...


*snip*
Accumulated evidence has implicated the antioxidant effects of dietary phenols and flavonoids in the prevention of various diseases, and in particular colorectal cancer, atherosclerosis, and neurodegenerative disorders (Hollman 1996). The antioxidant potential of two plant catechol-carrying compounds found in roasted coffee was tested in blood plasma and human erythrocytes using ICS Pilot Study Program funds awarded to James May, M.D., Professor of Medicine and Molecular Physiology and Biophysics and Jason Morrow, M.D., Professor of Medicine and Pharmacology. Results suggest that the catechol moiety of chlorogenic acid derivatives conveys antioxidant activity in cells and plasma. The detailed structure-function activity of these antioxidant effects remains to be elucidated.

Hollman, P. C. H., Hertog, M. G. L., & Katan, M. B. (1996). Role of dietary flavonoids in protection against cancer and coronary heart disease. Biochemistry Society Trans., 24, 785-789.


*snip*
MD/PhD and researcher Wim Saris:
1) Caffeine intake (in all of its forms) decreases whole body glucose disposal (carbohydrate uptake) by 15-30%.

2) Caffeine intake decreases skeletal muscle glucose disposal by 50%.

3) When consumed with a standard carbohydrate breakfast, caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity, leading to large increases in blood insulin. But even in the face of this insulin surge, blood glucose doesn't disappear at a normal rate. When the body can't take up carbohydrates properly (as when drinking caffinated coffee), it releases loads of insulin to help out. However, the caffinated coffee actually prevents the insulin from doing this job and you end up with high insulin and glucose. That, my friends, is the serum profile of the obese, type II diabetic.

4) Caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity for at least three hours (this is the duration of the longest study they've performed), but the true duration of the effect isn't known.

Maybe 5 hours, the half-life of caffeine...

 

[gUiLe]

The atkins diet suggests no more than 4 cups max per day!

But I think that was meant "if you HAVE to have coffee", like
so many people do. I have a pretty slow metabolism and have
resorted to drinking coffee ONLY before training sessions. I
think when exercising, it shouldn't be as detrimental to insulin
levels. Really sux though because I miss my morning 16oz cup
of Iced coffee!! Guzzle it down and INSTANT rush!!!
g

 

[THeMaCHinE]

bumping caffeine info in post above.

 

[caiza]

bump for more responses

 

[rez]

so what are the ideal times to take ALA?
on an empty stomach before a carb meal? or empty stomach before cardio...
?

 

[gUiLe]

Guile -- after reading about caffeine, I switched to non-caffinated coffee for about 1.5 months. During this period, I went on ALA and guess what -- it did nothing this time around -- even at 5 grams/day. Granted, I only stayed on 6 days as the lethargy was more than I wanted to deal with without seeing results. This is contrasted with my last experience with ALA where I was drinking caffeine and I lost 10 lb in 3 weeks (with most of the week coming off in 10 days).

So caffeine = use ALA. No caffeine = don't use ALA. (unless just for antioxidant)

Because caffeine has a relatively long life, I try to time my consumption now (yes, couldn't stand life without full-leaded coffee) with periods that I will not be ingesting any carbs for a space of 3+ hours.

Hmmm...maybe there is some truth to that. I remember reading
a post from FONZ not too long ago which seem to point to a
synergy between E/C/A and ALA. I worked out yesterday for
the FIRST time without a cup of coffee. I had a decent workout
but very sluggish feeling. I know the coffee would have gave
me the "lift" I needed. I did drink a half an ultra fuel while working
out with 1200mg of ALA and I couldn't believe the pumps I had
last night!! I just feel if I'm drinking a cup of joe before workout
and an Ultra Fuel during/after, I am REALLY fucking up my
insulin levels with the High Glycemic carb drink. I guess the only
way I can tell is with a blood glucose test. My dad's a diabetic. I
will do it both with ALA and without and report back.
g

 

[Ulter]

Rez, Take r-ALA just before you eat and be sure to eat.

 

[Steroid_Virgin]

good info.. bump

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I just feel if I'm drinking a cup of joe before workout
and an Ultra Fuel during/after, I am REALLY fucking up my
insulin levels with the High Glycemic carb drink. I guess the only
way I can tell is with a blood glucose test. My dad's a diabetic. I
will do it both with ALA and without and report back.
g

Yeah, I feel your pain -- I'm used to caffeine + ephedrine pre-workout. I'm dropping to just ephedrine and it seems to get me through. I wonder if ephedrine messes with insulin levels too (both are beta, right?)?

I have been drinking caffinated coffee again though -- I just time it so that it falls into a period of time -- about an hour and a half after my breakfast (carby meal) -- that I won't be taking in any carbs for some time.

I have breakfast, wait an hour and a half, have coffee, drink a protein shake awhile later as my snack and don't have carbs until lunch...