Clomid-- The Big Lie

[krishna]

Thanks tin. That was with A-dex and the results were done on 37 men as compared to the tests with Clomid which were done on "a subject." Similar results. So again I ask. Why use Clomid over Arimidex - anastrozole - ?

If they have similar results, why are you bashing clomid and saying to use adex? Why not use clomid over adex?

 

[nicolus]

If they have similar results, why are you bashing clomid and saying to use Arimidex - anastrozole - ? Why not use clomid over Arimidex - anastrozole - ?

Curious.. what dosage of adex are you advocating?

 

[eliteforce]

not necessary to use more than 1mg/day, maybe even .5mg/day

 

[Nelson Montana]

If they have similar results, why are you bashing clomid and saying to use Arimidex - anastrozole - ? Why not use clomid over Arimidex - anastrozole - ?

Because clomid is bad in so many other ways. Dex doesn't have the sides as Clo.

And actually, the dex results were better. And if we go with those who've use low dose dex with POST CYCLE and UNLEASHED the results are better yet. I think that's pretty good reason not to use a drug that can cause so many side effects.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I have an easy way out in deciding against nolva and clomid because nolvadex did absolutely nothing for me, and it KILLED my libido... clomid worked a little better (not 100%) but all the horrific sides. I decided that it's almost better to just ride it out without PCT than to use something with clomid, bear all those stupid sides, and only *slightly* improve.

I've always hoped there was a more natural approach to recovery. I've tried hundreds of supplements in the past, for whatever reason, and alot of them were bogus. But the best PCT to date for me has been using IGF, CEE, Sustain, and an energy booster like NO-xplode, Amp02, or Red Blast). This is my current PCT. These seem to cover all bases. Initial bloodwork showed partial recovery, but it was too soon to tell. I'll be getting additional bloodwork next month. All I know is that I have not crashed one bit, and no horrible sides! Big plus in my book.

 

[funstuff]

AIM: Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testosterone therapy. This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia, nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio. METHODS: Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed. RESULTS: The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 +/- 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 +/- 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4-6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 +/- 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients. CONCLUSIONS: Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estradiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.


How can you say clomid is a lie when it elicits results like these? Clomid has been shown to do exactly what the average bro needs post cycle; lowered estrogen levels and increased testosterone. Why would you want to take a product backed only be anecdotal evidence, in vitro and non-human in vivo studies over one that has been proven time again to work effectively in most people? Also notice the sentence about the side effects.

 

[tin2]

Yes, there are tons of studys that clomid works, it has worked for me also. But for the side effect part I guess that verys, cause the sides hit some ppl hard, me for one of them. I think what Nelsons trying to do here is to find an alternative to the terrible clomid , which may work but has bad sides. I dont think there has been many tests using clomid after AAS use, which may have an effect on the sides because of the higher estrogen, etc levels post cycle.. I am all ears when it comes to an alternative that works..

 

[krishna]

Because clomid is bad in so many other ways. Dex doesn't have the sides as Clo.

And actually, the dex results were better. And if we go with those who've use low dose dex with POST CYCLE and UNLEASHED the results are better yet. I think that's pretty good reason not to use a drug that can cause so many side effects.

I don't get any unwanted sides from clomid; only good ones.

 

[needtogetaas]

Yes, there are tons of studys that clomid works, it has worked for me also. But for the side effect part I guess that verys, cause the sides hit some ppl hard, me for one of them. I think what Nelsons trying to do here is to find an alternative to the terrible clomid , which may work but has bad sides. I dont think there has been many tests using clomid after anabolic androgenic steroids use, which may have an effect on the sides because of the higher estrogen, etc levels post cycle.. I am all ears when it comes to an alternative that works..

dermacrin sustain

 

[Papa Lion]

a-dex is too potent for pct and will further suppress your HPTA

That's the title of a chapter from BOTTOM LINE BODYBUILDING. I wrote it in 2001 when everybody was Clomid happy. Today, a new generation of bodybuilders are realizing they've been lied to.

So I ask you...where's the proof? Where's the proff that Clomid does anything at all for restoring testosterone? It's all based on sketchy evidence, scant research studies (often misinterpreted) heresay, rumor, misunderstanding and the prepetuation of erroneous information.

This is something a few former "experts" on this board never quite comprehended. (This is how misinfomation spreads). Sure, there are some studies that Clomid therepy improved hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - levels after being severly supressed -- AFTER TWO MONTHS OF TREATMENT. Hell, take nothing and HPTA levels will be restored after 2 months.

And even those lucky(?) few who have good results with Clomid -- where's the evidence that arimidex doesn't restore testosterone just as well? Again, the reigning experts would scream that you need a selective estrogen receptor modulator not and Anti -e post cycle. Why? Anyone? Because somebody said so?

I can't tell you how many times these nitwits would tell people to use up 100 mgs for months on end only to have the person respond by saying his condition wasn't improved -- only to be told to do MORE CLOMID! I can't help but wonder how many people were messed up by these "good bros."

In a straight up comparison, Clomid vs A-dex...Clomid loses every time.

Clomid and its nasty cousin Nolvadex, decreases lh - leutenizing hormone - , removes "good estrogen" has a possible rebound effect, lowers IGF-1, lowers FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - , lowers sperm count, lowers semen volume, may damage vision, causes letargy and depression and may even increase estrogen.

A-dex cause non of those side effects and also supresses sex hormone binding globulin .

A_dex along with natural supps -- Calcium D Glucarate, Chrysin, (Found in POST CYCLE) also CytogenX and Dermacrine the the only sane thing to use PC.

I know, there will be those who said Clomid worked for them. But I've seen a lot of cases where it hasn't. And the results were disasterous. Yet, never once, did I see anyone use A-dex and the right supps and have a problem. Never.

CLOMID SUCKS. Let it die.