Clean vid, I know I need help on this one...

[djeclipse]

Here is a clean vid I took last night at the gym. The weight is pretty light for me (I assume) 155 x 5.

I feel my technique is horrible and unlike my other vids I’m sure you'll agree.

I don't even know where to begin to critique myself so I'll just let you people tell me what I'm doing wrong.

I'm not sure if I'm diivng under the bar enough, when I make a mental not to dive under the bar my balance gets thrown all off.

I'm also not sure if my foot posation and hand posation are correct.

http://jumpcut.com/view?id=E164C6B0121211DB8433FEAF976EA1AD

 

[silver_shadow]

i'm not really much of an expert on cleans but for one thing i don't think your getting enough explosion into your lift. it looks more like a faster reverse curl at the top. i think maybe your arms are too tight. maybe you could practice the 2nd pull with some hang cleans, concentrate on explosiveness. towards the end of rocking my hips forward i'm usually up on my toes and then land into a squat position. hope that helps. i know your going to get some better advice from the more knowledgeable guys soon

 

[carlsuen]

haha!! DJ!! welcome aboard the clean ship.. haha!! well, i started off pretty much like u.. i think exactly like u!!

1. notice you are using your hands and wrist to support the weight? well you're not supposed to do that, when u clean the bar, it should come up and rest on your clevicle like in a front squat position.. elbows pointing outwards pls!! elbows should be 90 degrees to your body..

2. speed of cuz needs lots of work, try hang cleans first..

3. start doing the full front squat clean rather than the power version.. as it is most likely to develop bad habits.. as i'm doing now.. learn the full clean then proceed to the power clean..

this link is one of tht best so far IMHO.. i'm sure everyone else will agree with me..

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478432

damn.. the slow-mo vid is broken.. maybe someone can search for it and post up?

 

[BiggT]

Yeah, Yeah, I'll agree with you on just this one that your form is teh suck, lol....you're not making it an explosive movement, and you're upright rowing the weight into a reverse curl....but it is okay because we'll fix it.

I would start doing the full squat clean for a while right now, as I feel the power versions blow for teaching purposes because they tend to teach an incorrect pull, and aweful catch positioning.

A quick rundown....feet about hip-width (or where you would get the most power if you were going to do a vertical jump test), grip about shoulder-width. Smooth pull from the floor to mid-shin while straightening legs, then a smooth RDL-like pull to mid thigh, then a rebend of the knees and then the explosive final pull into the jump shrug where you rise onto the toes.....the arms are NOT used, they are kept straight and act like 'ropes' ....when at the height of the final pull/jump shrug/triple extension, you relax the elbows and let the bar reach about belly-button level AS you violently (really violently and as fast as possible) whip the elbows around AND pull yourself under the bar into a full front squat.

Get very comfortable in the bottom position of a full front squat, and forget about the power version of the lift until you can do the squat version correctly.

 

[djeclipse]

It sounds like I need a lot of work. This is why I've stayed away form the cleanfor so long, it seems overwealming.

The full squat clean sunds like it's alot to accomplish all in one movement.

maybe on Wed I'll start doing front squats instead of back.

 

[BiggT]

Definitely get comfortable front squatting, it will make a world of difference....and just be patient, it'll come.

 

[djeclipse]

Definitely get comfortable front squatting, it will make a world of difference....and just be patient, it'll come.

ok so front squats on Wed.

I will try to better my form but I think someof it may be the weigt is too light for me? I feel I can't get a good counter blance when I am using the light weight. But I don't want to increase the weight with my horrable form I have now.

 

[carlsuen]

lol.. practice with the bar first.. get the hang of diving under the bar as it reaches max height.. you'll be fine.. biggt described it pretty well..

 

[coolcolj]

if you picture a clean as jumping with a barbell in terms of where the force/power is coming from then you'll be on the road to doing em how they are done

I pretty much did that when I started, and even then it's taken ages to get it sorta right, but I have bad habits too - that comes with being self taught

this article covers some of the basics
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle...F3A666996915B38.hydra?article=06-059-training

 

[The Shadow]

i have a different thought.


You arent piling under the bar in a lower position b/c there is no need - you are cleaning it high enough to slip under it - it also explains why the lift seeems slow at the top - its b/c you are pulling the bar so high....


imo - you could add 20 pounds and make yourself get under the bar quicker

 

[s8nlilhlpr]

Ok, I'm going to have to agree on fixing your rack position. You have your elbows pointing down, they should be pointing straight ahead. Do not grip the bar tightly at the end, let it roll on to your shoulders.

Other than that, you have good speed and power. If you are comfortable front squatting that weight, practice some hang cleans. Deadlift the weight up, pause, dip-drive off your heals- extend your legs and hips evenly and shrug your shoulders at the top.

The bar should feel light, grip tight with your hands, but keep your elbows loose. It should raise a couple inches above your "hang" start position, now quickly drop into the lowest squat position and whip your elbows up into the rack.

You do this while the bar is traveling up if possible, so you can catch it, and keep pushing it upwards. If the bar starts travelling back down (you are too slow) then it will nail you in the collarbone, and you will need more energy to restart the ascent.

Wow, that was a lot longer than I planned.....

 

[iggy]

The key to powerlifting is explosion. Instead of muscling it up with your upper body, just relax before you clean. Then focus on one thing.

Hitting your chin with the bar.
Keep it tight to your body and go up slow till you come across your knee caps.
Then explode the bar up as quick as you can tight to your body until its at your shoulders.

Try to do it as fast as you can. Keep thinking explosion, explosion, explosion.

Oh and hardly anyone actually hits there chin.
It's just a way to badger people to work on there explosion

 

[coolcolj]

olylifting you mean..powerlifting is something else altogether

oh I have hit my chin before...

 

[petpre61]

oh I have hit my chin before...

knees, quads, private area , belly, chest, adam's apple, chin, clavicles

I win

 

[djeclipse]

Thanks for all the replies. I've spent my time between sets with just abar trying ot get some form issues worked out but I am getting frusterated.

I am in need of guidance as what to do for today with cleans.

I will switch to front squat instead of light back squat.
But my clean form was so bad.

Someone suggested hanging cleans to get the form down, but my form is so horrible I don't know what to do. I am contemplating dropping the lift completely but I don’t know what to put in it's place.

I just can't seem to get the diving under the bar thing. When ever I go rlaly low i end up on my toes instea dof heals. If I had a decent weight on the bar I'd probbaly fall forward.

As for my elbows being straight out instead of down, hopefully after some time with front squats I'll rectify that problem.

 

[BiggT]

First get good at front squats. You can't clean the right way if you can't rack a bar with a clean grip and perform a full front squat, anybody who claims to know how to clean, but can't do clean-grip front squats is not cleaning correctly.

I am not a fan of learning power versions or pulling from the hang initially because it tends to teach an incorrect pull and absolutely terrible foot positioning at the catch. If you can squat clean, you can do any variation under the sun properly, but the reverse is not true because if you don't know how to do the full version of the lift, you're probably pulling wrong or catching in a less advantageous position, or the rack is f-ed up.

Definitely start front squatting and get nice and comfy at the very bottom. To drill the clean, stand with an empty bar and rise onto your toes and shrug the shoulders....thats full extension, where you should be at the height of the pull. So, while you on your toes with the shoulders shrugged and your arms hanging down as low as they'll go, don't pull the bar up with the arms, just QUICKLY pull yourself underneath the bar into the bottom position of a full front squat, as you whip the elbows around as fast as humanly possible. This drills dropping under, the speed at which you drop under, and should hopefully do away with the idea that you upright row/reverse curl the weight.

 

[djeclipse]

Ok, I will try this today, hopefully front squats will go well also.

But now what to do for my pull for todays workout, maybe I will try to add light weight and clean properly?

 

[BiggT]

For the pull, I'd suggest 3x5 RDLs and 3x8 jump shrugs. Once you're comfortable with RDLs and the explosion generated by jump shrugging, then you can try clean pulls from the floor....(all the while you're front squatting and getting good at them)....when you have the clean pull nailed, you put it together and all you have to do is pull yourself under the bar and front squat it. Once you can squat clean, feel free to try the various hybrids of the lift.

If I lived closer, I could show you how to do a clean in no more than 45 minutes, but I don't want to tell you to clean and have it look like you were doing in the vid because that will just ingrain bad habbits.

Post another vid though when you adjust the form.

 

[BiggT]

DJ, do you have the link for Gayle Hatch's site also? I think that is the best teaching tool available as far as the internet is concerned.

 

[glennpendlay]

a couple of things that will help a lot...

first, make the bar actually touch your thigh between mid thigh and 2/3 of the way up on EVERY rep. every single one. this will cure several things you are doing wrong.

second, make sure you actually stomp your feet as you catch the bar. no, lifting the feet up and stomping them is not neccessary to do a good clean... but the ATTEMPT to do so will clean up the top part of your lift and the catch a whole bunch.

third, go down into a front squat at the end of every lift. dont think of it as doing a full squat clean. but when that bar touches your shoulder, your already got some knee bend, just go ahead and add id a front squat. dont stand up and re-adjust your position, and then go down. just go ahead and drop down from where you are when you catch. this will clean up your catch a lot, because it will force you to catch in a balanced position which allows you to go ahead and squat down without hesitation or re-adjustment, which is coincidentally the correct position to catch a squat clean OR a power clean...

do those 3 things for a couple of weeks, and youll be a lot further along the road to good clean form.

 

[djeclipse]

Thanks again to Glenn and BiggT.

I will do a you say and work on my front squat, do 3 x 5 RDl's and 3 x 8 jump shrug for a few weeks till I get comfortable with my front squat. Then I'll try the clean again using the suggestions above.

For the jump shrig are you talking about this?

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/JumpShrug.html

What kind of weight should I be using?

DJ, do you have the link for Gayle Hatch's site also? I think that is the best teaching tool available as far as the internet is concerned.

No I don't have the link.

BiggT aren't you in the toronto area?

 

[BiggT]

Yeah, thats a jump shrug. You can do them from the pins and really overload the upper back. Start wherever is comfortable, A good goal is to be repping (8-12) with your 1 rep max on the deadlift.

DJ, I'm in the US.....Pennsylvania.

Thats great advice from Glenn too, if you are at least doing the 3 things he listed, even if you're unsure about some aspects, you can be confident that you aren't doing anything too bad formwise.

Here is the Gayle Hatch link, great resource for free and detailed instructional vids.

http://www.aceathlete.com/hatch/video.htm

 

[djeclipse]

Thanks for the link, I'll see howit goes tonight.

And ya, I guess a drive down to PA is a little far. Though I have riden to PA on the bike, you have some sweet ass twisty roads in PA.

 

[petpre61]

this link might be useful too

http://www.strengthweb.com/sports/power_lifting.html

 

[djeclipse]

this link might be useful too

http://www.strengthweb.com/sports/power_lifting.html

Great vid, it should be a sticky.

 

[djeclipse]

I had my first go with front squats, and jump shrugs today. I did the jump shrugs for the floor, came up on my toes as I shrugged.

Big thanks to BiggT for suggesting doing the both to get me ready for a proper clean. I can see now why you suggested doing both lifts before trying cleans again. The front squats will help my catch position (which is terrible), and the jump shrugs (I did them form the floor) really helped the initial part of the lift.

Also thanks to glennpendlay for posting the 3 simple things to focus on while doing cleans. While doing jump shrugs I made sure to "have the bar contact my thigh between mid thigh and 2/3 of the way up on EVERY rep". Doing it with the jump shrugs I know what it's supposed to feel like now. I thin it will help my dead lift also when I get back to it.

I do have a big problem with the front squats and holding the bar. As I said it hurt my wrists. I tried to just rest he bar there, no thumbs involved, elbows out in front of me... but even then it was slipping away from my baby finger and hurting my wrists. Will this go away as my flexibility gets better?

Other then that I think a few weeks of front squats, rdl's and jump shrugs will get me geared to try cleans again.

 

[Protobuilder]

Will this go away as my flexibility gets better?

Yes. Just keep working on it. It's like squat flexibility, IMO. It's hard as hell at first, you wonder what kind of special training/stretching you need, etc., when all you need is to just keep plugging away. The body will adjust to the lift.

 

[djeclipse]

Yes. Just keep working on it. It's like squat flexibility, IMO. It's hard as hell at first, you wonder what kind of special training/stretching you need, etc., when all you need is to just keep plugging away. The body will adjust to the lift.

Good to know. I don't know how I expected to do a proper clean when I can't even catch it properly. lol It seems front squats are a prerequisite for a proper clean.

 

[Protobuilder]

I'd sure think so. I've still never really tried full squat cleans. Probably 8 months ago now, before I had ever thought about front squatting, I tried a real quick full clean and about killed myself. LoL I started to drop under it and just had no clue. It started to crush me on the way down and I just threw it out in front. LoL Now that I've been front squatting for a while, I'm much more confident that I could catch and stay tight all the way down, etc.