CKD diet & low thyroid

[jnuts]

Have any of the women had success w/CKD diet? I have a hard time losing weight due to a recent diag. of low thyroid and low testosterone. My doc. doesn't want me to take med's as he said it isn't low enough to treat yet. I've gained 15 lbs since last summer and I'm frustrated!! For the last week I started CKD and I haven't reached ketosis yet........maybe due to low-thyroid??? Any thoughts or suggestions??

Mrs. JNUTS

BTW, I train 4 days a week, 3 days mod. cardio, and eat clean 5 meals a day, drink 1 gal. H20. I'm 140 lbs., age 38, height 5'5

 

[Ceebs]

My doc. doesn't want me to take med's as he said it isn't low enough to treat yet.

I have a feeling most of the responses will be "find a different doctor".

How are you measuring ketosis? And what exactly are you eating?

 

[jnuts]

I got the keto sticks from the pharmacy.
I'm eating mostly chicken, egg whites, flax oil, heavy cream in the a.m. w/coffee, some cheese, tuna and alot of green salads.
cal. 1512 Fat 94, Prot 126 less than 20 grams carbs, mostly from greens.

5 meals 3 hrs. apart, coffee w/splenda and cream in the a.m. and the rest of the day h20(1 gal). 1400-1500 cals.

 

[jnuts]

I also do cardio early in the week, low-mod. cardio. Weights 4 days a week.

 

[NubianBeauty]

Hmmm, I remember reading somewhere that coffee will kick you out of ketosis?

BTW... find a new Dr. The fact that you have gained 15lbs while dieting should be evidence enough to put you on Meds.

 

[jnuts]

really, I heard coffee and/or splenda might kick one out of ketosis, where did u read this??

I'm looking for another doc!!

 

[FitFossil]

If it were me, I'd at least get a second opinion, if not a new doctor. If you've already been diagnosed as low, I wonder what he waiting for - for you to get fatter and sicker While I agree that medication should only be used if necessary, has he given you any other solutions to help your condition?

Here are two excellent books I highly recommend. You should be able to get them from the public library. They both discuss possible treatments and how to find a sympathetic doctor. For some reason, women often encounter roadblocks w/ their doctors for these conditions.

Natural Hormone Balance for Women by Uzzi Reis
The Thyroid Solution by Ridha Arem

good luck!

 

[The Shadow]

Have any of the women had success w/CKD diet? I have a hard time losing weight due to a recent diag. of low thyroid and low testosterone. My doc. doesn't want me to take med's as he said it isn't low enough to treat yet. I've gained 15 lbs since last summer and I'm frustrated!! For the last week I started CKD and I haven't reached ketosis yet........maybe due to low-thyroid??? Any thoughts or suggestions??

Mrs. JNUTS

BTW, I train 4 days a week, 3 days mod. cardio, and eat clean 5 meals a day, drink 1 gal. H20. I'm 140 lbs., age 38, height 5'5

You should be able to reach slight ketosis in 3 days maximum....even at 30-50 grams per day. Keep in mind that a ckd diet will likely worsen the depressed thyroid levels

 

[jnuts]

really, man, I can't win for losing....... what would be a better diet solution?

 

[jnuts]

Thanks FitFossil, I will look for those books

 

[JJFigure]

How long have you been dieting? You say you started CKD last week; had you been dieting before then? If so, you may need a break to get your metabolism jumpstarted before you go back into sub-maintenance kcals.

MS mentioned using ratios of 45% pro, 30% fat, 25% carbs as a means of dieting without significantly impacting metabolism.

BTW - I cut on a cyclical low carb diet and have never once hit ketosis. My diet works though; I just don't have to deal with the whole ketosis thing. I intake < 30 grams of carb on my low carb days, so I wouldn't be too worried about not having your ketosis stick change color. If you want to stick out the CKD approach a little longer.

 

[jnuts]

Dieting on and off for 3 months, not real strict until thae last week. I did compete last summer(Figure) and I dieted real hard and trained 6 days a week along w.sprinting 6 days a week. I think that extreme training and dieting really threw my met. off. Ever since then my body fat has gone way up, while maintaing a healthy diet and exercising4-5 days a week. I have been really tired and sluggish. Can't get thru the day w/out caffeine or ECA. My libido is low also, along w/dry skin.

 

[Ceebs]

I intake < 30 grams of carb on my low carb days, so I wouldn't be too worried about not having your ketosis stick change color.

Ditto ditto DITTO! Don't pay too much mind to what the sticks say. There's a million piddly little things that can cause a false positive, or false negative on ketostix, and even then, it's only a sign of ketonuria (ketones in pee), not ketonemia (ketones in blood).

You can buy all sorts of fancy gadgets to tell you what's going on internally when you diet (blood ketometer, blood glucometer, ketostix, jelly doughnuts, etc), but what matters most is whether you're dropping bodyfat. Unfortunately, you say you're not, but I suspect your thyroid is the culprit, not your lack of "measurable" ketosis.

Here's a post addressing the caffiene and ketosis question: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184183&highlight=coffee+insulin

 

[MS]

First and foremost find another doc. There is no legit reason why anyone should have to put up with less than optimal thyroid levels.

Second of all like JJ and ceebs said, don't fall for that ketosis hype. You will not lose any more fat by going into ketosis, but you will risk killing your thyroid even more, and worse rebound fat gain. The only advantage to ketosis is that it helps SOME (but not all) folks to curb appetite. I think a good high protein diet does this even better, and also prevents the metabolism from crashing. Of course if you are one of the millions of people who just plain prefer to eat a high fat diet, then keto may be the diet for you.

Have you had any of your other hormones checked?? Like estrogen, test, blood glucose/insulin, plus iron etc...?

 

[The Shadow]

Ditto ditto DITTO! Don't pay too much mind to what the sticks say. There's a million piddly little things that can cause a false positive, or false negative on ketostix, and even then, it's only a sign of ketonuria (ketones in pee), not ketonemia (ketones in blood).

[/url]

...the number 1 reason the stick do not change when IN ketosis is overactivity...

 

[jnuts]

MS- I had my test taken it was on the low side,test total 36. test free, 4 and testfree and weakly bound 8. Glucose low, 67. Insulin 3

Didn't get estrogen or iron done.

 

[wilson6]

Doctors that won't treat hypothyroidism or low testosterone levels until the symptoms become overtly clinical are irresponsible.

That would be like treating a Type I diabetic with prozac until they manifest all the negative physiologic sequela of hyperglycemia, then treat them with insulin.

W6

 

[jnuts]

I know, thats why I'm soo frustrated, him gave me Wellbutrin and thinks I'm depressed. He's fired, I'm currently looking for another doc. I learn alot on Elite from you all, Thanks

 

[NY Muscle]

Take it from me, all this thyroid hype and losing weight, 95% of the time is just that.. hype... im on t4 (Synthroid) and been on it for yrs... i havent lost any weight faster than I did when my thyroid was 'low" as everyone loves to say these days. Now it "might" help with the sensitivity to cold u may or may not have as well as hair loss and a few other symptoms of low thyroid but unless you are WAYYYYYYY low and not in the LOW RANGE, which im sorry to say IS NORMAL, then taking meds wont help much if at all. People need to stop putting the blame on the thyroid, that isnt the only factor in fat loss you know.

also you said " I have a hard time losing weight due to a recent diag. of low thyroid and low testosterone. " What does this mean? that u magically stopped losing weight once u found out u had a low thyroid? maybe you convinced yourself of this or are you saying u have had a hard time losing weight and then found out your thyroid levels are in the LOW RANGE of NORMAL ??


My father said it best, maybe about 8 yrs ago, I was going to dr after dr to finally find someone who would agree my t3/t4 or whatever levels were low and i couldnt lose weight... i convinced myself this was the problem... i was cold all the time all the symptoms of low thyroid... a lot of it was do to extreme weight loss way too fast.. i lost 80lbs at a rate of 6lbs a week so that messed up my system... but what he told me was "you are just going to keep searching and searching and searching for finally one Dr. who will prescribe you thyroid and tell you the 8 other Drs you saw were wrong" He was right... i mean come on how stupid was I or u aor anyone else with this same thinking... so u stop after u FINALLY find a dr. who agrees with u and disregard what the others say? HUGE MISTAKE... and thats EXACTLY what I did..... I ended up at the Atkins medical center in NYC, immediately they put my on time released t3 (Cytomel) guess what? I didnt lose a damn thing after 2 months and i gave up.... i rebounded and got fat REAL FASt....... i ended up trying the Atkins diet... and it actually took all the weight off and more.... I realized it wasnt my thyroid that was SLOW it was my fat ass that was slow... i didnt do enough cardio and my diet wasnt the best it could have been. ALso a HUGE factor for my slow metabolism was MUSCLE MASS... i added a LOT OF MUSCLE over the course of 1-2 years and that jacked my metabolism into high gear and made fat loss a lot easier.

I am on t4 now only becuase my Dr noticed on a routine blood work that it was low and he even thinks steroids in the long term could possibly lower t4.. so he put me on it... i dont really notice anything different.... the only thing that made a difference with me "finally" losing the weight was getting my diet in check and doing the right amount of cardio and of course adding a lot of muscle.


I say try the CKD/Atkins diet and see how it works for u.... the biggest problem with this diet is women... for some reason I think women are born with the notion that fat is BAD... and end up making it a low fat and low carb diet... HUGE mistake.... its a HIGH FAT DIET... so try it for 6 weeks or so and see how it goes. And dont forget the cardio and 3 days of cardio at 30 minutes sorry to say doesnt count

Oh and lastly.. the reason you are depressed is because you cant lose weight.. dont waste time with more useless drugs... attack the PROBLEM (lack of fat loss) not the symptom (depression).

 

[jnuts]

Thanks NY Muscle,
You're prob. right, maybe I need to take a closer look at what I'm eating, esp. night time carbs and not enough cardio. I've been on CKD a week on Fri. and already feel lighter, mostly h20 weight. Do u think some HIT workouts would speed things up?

 

[MS]

NYM, why do you assume that jnuts is 'low-normal'. Is this correct jnuts?? There is a difference between thyroid in the low end of the normal range, and LOW thyroid. But either way it seems to me that if your thyroid is legitimately low AND you are experiencing symptoms of low thyroid, then you should be getting some help from your doc. It's not just about losing fat as NYM pointed out. It's about being a healthy person. But for sure you can't pin all of your fat loss hopes on taking a pill. Low or normal thyroid-you still have to work hard and be 100% commited to a solid program of diet and exercise.

I don't suppose you have a copy of the thyroid test results???

 

[wilson6]

T4 will help with the mental aspect of low thyroid, but isn't much good for changing metabolism which is why NYM didn't notice any change. Armour is a good choice for hypothyroidism.

Always have your free T3 levels checked. That will tell the story and not many docs do that.

W6

 

[NY Muscle]

Thanks NY Muscle,
You're prob. right, maybe I need to take a closer look at what I'm eating, esp. night time carbs and not enough cardio. I've been on CKD a week on Fri. and already feel lighter, mostly h20 weight. Do u think some HIT workouts would speed things up?

HIT is great sure if u can handle it, im too lazy and it hurts my knees so i do cardio on the treadmil 45min - 1 hr, 4mph and i go up to 4.5mph then back down to 4mph, sometimes ill sprint if my knees arent that bad for a few minutes at 8mph... but usually the last 25 minutes is stright cardio no HIT, the 1st 25-30min ill play around with walking fast and jogging like HIT.

 

[NY Muscle]

NYM, why do you assume that jnuts is 'low-normal'.

I am assuming since just about every human being "seems" to be low normal (so they say) when they get blood tests back and maybe .01 % are actually below normal which requires meds.

 

[jnuts]

I don't suppose you have a copy of the thyroid test results???

Here are the results from some bloodwork drawn on 8 May:

Test Total - 36 (20-76)
Test Free - 4 (1-21)
Test Free and Weakly Bound - 8 (3-29)
Cortisol 19.2 (3-17)(this seems kinda high to me?)

DHEA S - 97 (52-400)
IGFA - 171 (114-492)

T-4, Free - 0.8 (.8-1.8)
T3, Free- 233 (230-420)

---------

From a test taken on Apr 18th:
TSH, 3rd Generation - 4.391 (0.35-4.94)

My wife's doctor is a dickhead. We will not be seeing him anymore. He's been total lunkhead about this whole thing.

 

[wilson6]

Test low.

Thyroid T4 and T3, low.

TSH high.

DHEAs low.

Cortisol high.

IGF-I low.

That's about as catabolic and fat promoting as you can get. Sure you're barely inside the norms, but as far as quality of life issues go, man what a mess.

You need to get on a dose of Armour (T3 and T4) to bring your TSH down to around 2.0 and free T3 and T4 at least into the mid-normal range.

You need some T-gel to get your testosterone levels up into the mid - upper normal range.

Add in about 25 mg of DHEA per day to boost the DHEAs.

The low IGF-I and high cortisol may be due to diet, start a rotating carb diet.

But most importantly, get to a doc that will correct the Test and thyroid issues. You're living in a metabolic cluster f*** right now.

Once you fix this you'll feel 100 times better.

W6

 

[jnuts]

Thanks wilson6,

I've been feeling like shit for awhile, would getting off ECA's and coffee bring down the cortisol? I have 2 kids and go to school full time, along w/training I'm pretty much spent most of the time, I started really hitting the coffee(3-4) cups a day and zenadrine once a day just to get thru my workouts and daily chores etc. By 9 p.m. I can't wait to hit the sack and no interest in sex what so ever, I'm too tired. I'm so grateful to have people on Elite to help me out, mu doc. was telling me it is in my head.

I have an appt. on Tues. w/ an internal doc. my friend that goes to him said he prob. want me to start progesterone cream first before Armour, what does it take to get a doc. to give you this stuff??

 

[jnuts]

BTW, whats is IGF-I??

 

[JG1]

HIT is great sure if u can handle it, im too lazy and it hurts my knees so i do cardio on the treadmil 45min - 1 hr, 4mph and i go up to 4.5mph then back down to 4mph, sometimes ill sprint if my knees arent that bad for a few minutes at 8mph... but usually the last 25 minutes is stright cardio no HIT, the 1st 25-30min ill play around with walking fast and jogging like HIT.

You do that every day bro'?

I used to be so scared of cardio, thought I would shrink to nothing. However for the last 5 weeks I've hit morning cardio evey day, 60 minute sessions at 4.0mph 3% incline. The fat just melted right off me. Granted, my diet is absolutely perfect right now, but hey, I'm natural and have gotten a lot stronger these last 5 weeks as well.

 

[NY Muscle]

You do that every day bro'?

I used to be so scared of cardio, thought I would shrink to nothing. However for the last 5 weeks I've hit morning cardio evey day, 60 minute sessions at 4.0mph 3% incline. The fat just melted right off me. Granted, my diet is absolutely perfect right now, but hey, I'm natural and have gotten a lot stronger these last 5 weeks as well.

5 - 7 days a week and more when i near contest time or beach time, etc. For those of you who never dieted for a show, its quite the norm to do 1 hr of cardio every day and even 2 times a day the last month or so b4 a show... a girlfriend of mine does 2-3hrs a day when shes getting ready for a show... i hate cardio but I'd rather do more cardio cause i love to eat, than starve myself and do less cardio.

 

[jnuts]

^

 

[DrJMW]

Wilson6 and I are in sync over this case. Armour Thyroid and Testos Gel just to normalize those levels. IGF-1 is Insulin Growth Factor I. It is part of the measurement to check HGH function. The other is IGFBP-3 (Insulin Growth Factor Binding Protein-3). When both are low, as in your case, you suffer from some GH deficiency or resistence.

 

[jnuts]

what can you take to increase GH def. and IGF-I? Can you increase w/diet or med.'s

 

[wilson6]

Fix the test and thyroid first, and make sure you're getting adequate caloric intake to cover daily needs and plenty of protein. Then give it 3 months and recheck the GH/IGF-I axis as well as cortisol. Cut back on the coffee.

You're trying to fix the low thyroid and test with EPH and caffeine. Just like fixing diabetes with prozac.

The problem appears pretty clear cut, how progesterone cream is going to help is unclear to me. You should ask the doc how progesterone cream is going to fix the low thyroid, test and DHEA levels.

For a doc to help, they have to understand the problem.

W6

 

[DrJMW]

I absolutely agree with wilson6. Once retested--after everything is optimized--the low HGH function can be addressed with HGH supplementation--assuming it doesn't self-correct with the testos and thyroid meds.

 

[Fonz]

I absolutely agree with wilson6. Once retested--after everything is optimized--the low HGH function can be addressed with HGH supplementation--assuming it doesn't self-correct with the testos and thyroid meds.

JMW, you have mail. IMP.

Fonz