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China to try out new 'mobile execution' vans
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H
HULKSTER
Guest
Shit, now Morty Jackson can't buy those Chinese eggs that he wanted..........
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
I fail to see the problem.........a similar syatem is used in the USA (although it is not mobile).
I was impressed by the final kick in the teeth for families of prisoners executed with a bullet........'you cant have the body unless you pay for the bullet'........thats hardcore.
I was impressed by the final kick in the teeth for families of prisoners executed with a bullet........'you cant have the body unless you pay for the bullet'........thats hardcore.
HansNZ
New member
Daernoth said:
Political prisoners in China are usually imprisoned. Most executions in China are for the same crimes as in the USA.
I don't think Americans should be criticising China's system of execution when the USA is the only Western country whose state still has the legal right to murder its citizens. The rest of the western world got rid of this mediaeval punishment years ago.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Article says they use courts to try the prisoners..........
And it isn't like the USA never executes the wrong person.......or even puts the wrong person on death row.
And it isn't like the USA never executes the wrong person.......or even puts the wrong person on death row.
Baby Gorilla
New member
And...
I think the use of the death penalty needs to be expanded. As much as the need for justice calls to be sure you only punish the guilty, we fill prisons with low lifes who will not reform and live in relative comfort while law-abiding citizens work by the sweat of their brow to have a meager living.
Know what it costs to support an inmate in the USA? At least $50,000 per year. The guards who work in the institution often enjoy a lower quality of life than the inmates do. They don't have to work, they must receive medical care when ill. They spend most of thier time doing activities or recreation. Why would they not want to loose their freedom? The state take better care of them than they can care for themselves.
Cut off a hand for committing theft, you only have the perp steal twice....
...that is, of coure, your opinion.HansNZ said:
I think the use of the death penalty needs to be expanded. As much as the need for justice calls to be sure you only punish the guilty, we fill prisons with low lifes who will not reform and live in relative comfort while law-abiding citizens work by the sweat of their brow to have a meager living.
Know what it costs to support an inmate in the USA? At least $50,000 per year. The guards who work in the institution often enjoy a lower quality of life than the inmates do. They don't have to work, they must receive medical care when ill. They spend most of thier time doing activities or recreation. Why would they not want to loose their freedom? The state take better care of them than they can care for themselves.
Cut off a hand for committing theft, you only have the perp steal twice....
Re: And...
You Sir, are a breath of fresh air. I agree 100%, and i live in a country where the death penalty doesn't exist.
Baby Gorilla said:...that is, of coure, your opinion.
I think the use of the death penalty needs to be expanded. As much as the need for justice calls to be sure you only punish the guilty, we fill prisons with low lifes who will not reform and live in relative comfort while law-abiding citizens work by the sweat of their brow to have a meager living.
Know what it costs to support an inmate in the USA? At least $50,000 per year. The guards who work in the institution often enjoy a lower quality of life than the inmates do. They don't have to work, they must receive medical care when ill. They spend most of thier time doing activities or recreation. Why would they not want to loose their freedom? The state take better care of them than they can care for themselves.
Cut off a hand for committing theft, you only have the perp steal twice....
You Sir, are a breath of fresh air. I agree 100%, and i live in a country where the death penalty doesn't exist.
HansNZ
New member
Re: And...
Is the answer to large prison populations more executions? Or should the question be why does the USA have such a large prison population in the first place?
Baby Gorilla said:...that is, of coure, your opinion.
I think the use of the death penalty needs to be expanded. As much as the need for justice calls to be sure you only punish the guilty, we fill prisons with low lifes who will not reform and live in relative comfort while law-abiding citizens work by the sweat of their brow to have a meager living.
Know what it costs to support an inmate in the USA? At least $50,000 per year. The guards who work in the institution often enjoy a lower quality of life than the inmates do. They don't have to work, they must receive medical care when ill. They spend most of thier time doing activities or recreation. Why would they not want to loose their freedom? The state take better care of them than they can care for themselves.
Cut off a hand for committing theft, you only have the perp steal twice....
Is the answer to large prison populations more executions? Or should the question be why does the USA have such a large prison population in the first place?
Baby Gorilla
New member
Re: Re: And...
This is something I know about having worked in the CJ field.
For the typical person, the threat of loosing their freedom is sufficient deterrent to prevent most crime. However, to someone with a criminal mind, loss of freedom is only a minor factor in a larger equation. If what they seek to gain outweighs what they'd be risking in short and long-term consequences, they will commit the crime. So, imprisonment is not a deterrent anymore.
More so, the USA has something many other "civilized" countries do not have....a Constitutional protection against "cruel and unusual" punishments. US prisons have gone from being work camps to luxury resorts under a liberal administration. Not all state prisons are the same (some are worse than others) but the end effect is clear. People go to prison for violent crimes against society and society gives the inmate a better quality of life than poor, honest, law-abiding Americans. That further deteriorates any "punitive" effect of imprisonment. The criminal (who thinks freedom is not valuable enough to not risk imprisonment) has even less reason to fear prison as it's not as bad a life as it used to be.
I have no health insurance. A hospital can't refuse to treat me for life-threatening injuries or illnesses, but I can be put out on the street or go bankrupt being forced to pay the bill. I can't get medical care unless I can pay for it, and anything not needed to save my life is not owed to me.
An inmate gets OTC medication for free. They get doctor visits for free. They get non-life saving proceedures for free. They often sue if denied utterly elective proceedures claiming "cruel and unusual punishment."
The lack of an effective deterrent encourages crime. The #1 growth industry of the USA since the 1980s has been privately-run prisons. We can't build them fast enough.
The death penalty works. It's something anyone short of a psychopath fears. Opponents try to claim otherwise, but numbers don't lie. An example is Florida where there was a rash of cop killings in a 2 year period. They passed a law mandating life in prison or the death penalty for killing a police officer. The killings dropped to pretty much zero. Most of the killings were done by people not willing to pay the ultimate price if caught and convicted. The opponent's argument is that the majority of death row inmates would not choose to not kill knowing their fate. Well, I agree that the death penalty doesn't deter people like that, but the flaw in that argument is that people who were deterred never entered the CJ system so they didn't have the whole picutre.
A part of me takes a look at the criminal with compassion. However, another questions if society is benefited by such "bleeding heart" politics.
Two military bases in the Middle East. One American, the other not (I don't recall the exact nationality off-hand, so I won't name it). The American base has about every security precaution taken one can think of. They are infiltrated and robbed regularly. The other base has no guards, no fence, and just two pikes at the front gate. Nobody steals from them. Why? Last theif who tried and got caught was promptly executed, beheaded, and his body was left to rot on the ground by one of the pikes. His head was displayed on the pike, and his family pleaded for the head so they could bury him. The word gets around. The thieves target the base with the lesser punnishment.
Don't buy that? It's true. The info they give people in the USA to prevent being a victim of crime boils down to an effective issue....criminals are mostly cowards at heart. Make it so they have to spend some effort to get into your house or too likely they'd get caught and they will move on to an easier target. Don't carry yourself like a victim (appear weak) and a mugger will look for easier prey.
Perhaps the "cutting off of hands" would be a healthy change for the administration of justice. The liberal way US prisons are run today has only worsened the crminal element. They accept they'll do time and honestly look forward to doing it. The deterrence has no "fear factor" anymore.
If you think about it, it's all valid. Even for a Christian, we all do things out of a motivation (in part or whole) to avoid an undesired fate. I chose to serve God out of a fear of Hell. Now that my relationship with God has grown, I do it out of honest love of God, but I'd never leave because I know what the alternative is....being without God in a world where my real enemy would no longer be restrained from harming me. Likewise, I try to obey the law because I don't want to loose my freedom. If I neither valued my freedom nor my relationship with God, then I'd not do either of the above because I fear not the alternatives.
Well, sorry for the smart alex response before (although I do believe it to some extent).HansNZ said:
This is something I know about having worked in the CJ field.
For the typical person, the threat of loosing their freedom is sufficient deterrent to prevent most crime. However, to someone with a criminal mind, loss of freedom is only a minor factor in a larger equation. If what they seek to gain outweighs what they'd be risking in short and long-term consequences, they will commit the crime. So, imprisonment is not a deterrent anymore.
More so, the USA has something many other "civilized" countries do not have....a Constitutional protection against "cruel and unusual" punishments. US prisons have gone from being work camps to luxury resorts under a liberal administration. Not all state prisons are the same (some are worse than others) but the end effect is clear. People go to prison for violent crimes against society and society gives the inmate a better quality of life than poor, honest, law-abiding Americans. That further deteriorates any "punitive" effect of imprisonment. The criminal (who thinks freedom is not valuable enough to not risk imprisonment) has even less reason to fear prison as it's not as bad a life as it used to be.
I have no health insurance. A hospital can't refuse to treat me for life-threatening injuries or illnesses, but I can be put out on the street or go bankrupt being forced to pay the bill. I can't get medical care unless I can pay for it, and anything not needed to save my life is not owed to me.
An inmate gets OTC medication for free. They get doctor visits for free. They get non-life saving proceedures for free. They often sue if denied utterly elective proceedures claiming "cruel and unusual punishment."
The lack of an effective deterrent encourages crime. The #1 growth industry of the USA since the 1980s has been privately-run prisons. We can't build them fast enough.
The death penalty works. It's something anyone short of a psychopath fears. Opponents try to claim otherwise, but numbers don't lie. An example is Florida where there was a rash of cop killings in a 2 year period. They passed a law mandating life in prison or the death penalty for killing a police officer. The killings dropped to pretty much zero. Most of the killings were done by people not willing to pay the ultimate price if caught and convicted. The opponent's argument is that the majority of death row inmates would not choose to not kill knowing their fate. Well, I agree that the death penalty doesn't deter people like that, but the flaw in that argument is that people who were deterred never entered the CJ system so they didn't have the whole picutre.
A part of me takes a look at the criminal with compassion. However, another questions if society is benefited by such "bleeding heart" politics.
Two military bases in the Middle East. One American, the other not (I don't recall the exact nationality off-hand, so I won't name it). The American base has about every security precaution taken one can think of. They are infiltrated and robbed regularly. The other base has no guards, no fence, and just two pikes at the front gate. Nobody steals from them. Why? Last theif who tried and got caught was promptly executed, beheaded, and his body was left to rot on the ground by one of the pikes. His head was displayed on the pike, and his family pleaded for the head so they could bury him. The word gets around. The thieves target the base with the lesser punnishment.
Don't buy that? It's true. The info they give people in the USA to prevent being a victim of crime boils down to an effective issue....criminals are mostly cowards at heart. Make it so they have to spend some effort to get into your house or too likely they'd get caught and they will move on to an easier target. Don't carry yourself like a victim (appear weak) and a mugger will look for easier prey.
Perhaps the "cutting off of hands" would be a healthy change for the administration of justice. The liberal way US prisons are run today has only worsened the crminal element. They accept they'll do time and honestly look forward to doing it. The deterrence has no "fear factor" anymore.
If you think about it, it's all valid. Even for a Christian, we all do things out of a motivation (in part or whole) to avoid an undesired fate. I chose to serve God out of a fear of Hell. Now that my relationship with God has grown, I do it out of honest love of God, but I'd never leave because I know what the alternative is....being without God in a world where my real enemy would no longer be restrained from harming me. Likewise, I try to obey the law because I don't want to loose my freedom. If I neither valued my freedom nor my relationship with God, then I'd not do either of the above because I fear not the alternatives.
atlantabiolab
New member
HansNZ said:
Another evidence of the subjectivism, and irrationality, of people. Why is the punishment of death wrong, for individuals who have commited the most barbaric of atrocities to others of society, if all societies allow for the removal of some liberties with imprisonment, for lesser crimes? You have stated before that "your" country cannot take away your life, even if you kill others, yet they CAN take away your freedom for the same crime. Coming from one that is all for the "good of the people", ie collectivism over individualism, I would expect you to favor this, since it removes one who is a danger to society. Also, this is strange from a country, which I believe is supportive of euthanasia, which allows others to kill you if you ask to be killed. Seems like "state' licensed murder to me.
Europeans act as if the US government comes to one's house in the night, tries, convicts and then executes them for no reason. Those on death row are there for charges of horrible acts against others and tend to live there for decades before they are ever executed. This coming from countries where freedom of expression, private property, and business are far more restricted than the US.
Norman Bates
New member
atlantabiolab said:
What percentage of wrongly executed people is acceptable for you?
A
ariolanine
Guest
Why are all asian cultures so disgustingly violent and cruel? The Chinese scare me more than the islama-fascists.
A
ariolanine
Guest
HansNZ said:
I don't think a kiwi has the right to say a fucking thing about punishment based on your nation's history.
W
Warik
Guest
HansNZ said:
The killing of a killer is not murder.
-Warik
A
ariolanine
Guest
Re: Re: Re: And...
Exactly..The current prison system is a punishment for middle class people because they would actually lose something. Your common trailer park or ghetto shitbag can actually improve their quality of life by going to jail.
Baby Gorilla said:
Exactly..The current prison system is a punishment for middle class people because they would actually lose something. Your common trailer park or ghetto shitbag can actually improve their quality of life by going to jail.
the nature boy
New member
I wonder what kind of rims those vans are going to use. 20's? 22's?
Norman Bates
New member
gymtime said:
With death penalty you have innocent people killed. Without you have innocent people imprisoned.
I prefer the later.
That the legal system is not perfect is a crucial point in the whole discussion.
