CARDIO is a WASTE of TIME and ENERGY!!!

[Peyomp]

I've come down from a 325 cheese ball (max bench 95 pounds ), to 230 pounds with sum muscle. And in my long experience with this...

I never lost as much weight from resistance training, no matter how intense, even on 1500 calories or less a day, as when I included some intense cardio and upped the calories a bit. The reason is, that on 1500 calories a day, I feel like shit and my workouts suffer. On 2000 calories a day, with intense cardio for 20-30 minutes, with my HR between 160-170, my workouts are much better... and bottom line, I lose fat much quicker than on the workouts and reduced calorie diet alone. And I FEEL good too. Endorphins own me. I put on muscle too, no matter what. That's possible for someone as fat and weak as I was, to cut and bulk at the same time.

Whats more, if I add 500 calories, and burn only 300 in cardio... I still lose weight faster. Reason? Is it not true that while resistance training ramps your metabolism for up to 4-6 days after training... cardio ALSO ramps your metabolism for 24 hours or so after training? I've read this, and its the only way I can explain my results.

 

[vinylgroover]

Nelson and Brick Girl, oxidising fat requires oxygen, because of a larger oxygen intake required, cardiovascular training will assist in burning fat.

As you become fitter, your resting pulse will decrease. This reflects a greater stroke volume of the heart, and means that your heart is pumping more blood with each beat. ie, it becomes more efficient.

The fact this thread has gone to five pages indicates the level of stupidity present on these boards.

I don't know if the two of you are trying to impress the rest of us or not with your cavalier approach, but you're both being pretty fucking irresponsible, particularly you Nelson.

Cardiovascular work is beneficial for both fat loss and overall heath and wellbeing. End of story.

 

[ROAD DOG]

I'm not saying cardio doesn't have it's place. Of course it does. I am naturally a fat ass, really big, but when I am cutting down for a contest, I let the diet do most of all the work, i save the cardio for the last 4 weeks or so. I don't understand why people would start a cutting diet for like a contest and start cardio at the same time as there diet, that makes no sense to me, let your diet do most of the work and when you hit platues THEN add in cardio to get you lower, if someone hasn't dieted down extremely low, then it's really hard to understand that when you are real low, taking off just a little bit more takes a lot of work, that is why for most, cardio is best applied AFTER your diet has done most of the work. You don't want to get low with diet AND cardio and then have to get lower, because once my diet is set and then the cardio is set, then i can add in the clen for the last little bit. For me, clen is only noticable when I am under 7% or so. Thats another thing, I don't know why people would start clen/diet/cardio at the same time. You are using up individual weapons all at once, instead of letting each one do there job alone. I think that made sense

I totally agree,I hate when I hear people saying they are going to start their cutting cycle when they are 18% bodyfat.

 

[geoboy]

Who here believes this? I have been told this more than once by people on this board and others, but have yet to have anyone back it up, or let out their secret. I find that cardio is the only way to drop bf for me. If this is a true statement in some eyes, what can be done in place of it, because im sure we can all agree, cardio is not the funnest shit in the world. If there is a way around this please let me know.

In addition to BF reduction, AAS screw up your blood lipids, HDL goes way down, LDL (bad) goes way up. Cardio is the best and fastest way to bring up HDL (don't recall about the ldl). low levels of HDL over time will allow youyr arteries to gum up. then you'll be the most muscular double bypass patient at your local hospital (just like arnold?)

 

[Peyomp]

Med Sci Sports Exerc 2002 Nov;34(11):1793-800

Resistance and aerobic exercise have similar effects on 24-h nutrient oxidation.

Melanson EL, Sharp TA, Seagle HM, Donahoo WT, Grunwald GK, Peters JC, Hamilton JT, Hill JO.

Center for Human Nutrition, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, Denver, 80262, USA. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Whether resistance exercise is as effective as aerobic exercise for body-weight management is debated. PURPOSE: To compare 24-h energy expenditure (EE) and macronutrient oxidation elicited by comparable bouts of stationary cycling (BK) and weightlifting (WTS). METHODS: 24-h EE and macronutrient oxidation were measured in 10 nonobese male subjects on three occasions using whole-room indirect calorimetry. BK and WTS days were compared with a nonexercise control day (Con). RESULTS: During BK, subjects exercised for 49 +/- 7 min (mean +/- SEM) at 70% of OV(2max) and expended 546 +/- 16 kcal. During WTS, subjects performed a 70-min circuit consisting of four sets of 10 different exercises at 70% of exercise-specific 1-repetition maximum and expended 448 +/- 21 kcal (P < 0.001 vs BK). 24-h EE on BK and WTS days (2,787 +/- 76 kcal x d(-1), 2,730 +/- 106 kcal x d(-1), respectively, P > 0.05) was elevated compared with Con (2,260 +/- 96 kcal x d(-1), P < 0.001), but 24-h respiratory exchange ratio (RER) was not different. 24-h carbohydrate oxidation was significantly elevated on the exercise days (BK = 370 +/- 18 g x d(-1), WTS = 349 +/- 23 g x d(-1), P > 0.05) compared with Con (249 +/- 29 g x d(-1), P = 0.04). 24-h fat and protein oxidation were the same on BK, WTS, and Con days. EE and macronutrient oxidation in the periods after exercise also did not differ across conditions.

CONCLUSION: In men, resistance exercise has a similar effect on 24-h EE and macronutrient oxidation as a comparable bout of aerobic exercise. Neither exercise produced an increase in 24-h fat oxidation above that observed on a nonexercise control day.

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What the fuck? This ain't what I thought happened.

 

[Peyomp]

J Appl Physiol 2002 Mar;92(3):1045-52

Effect of exercise intensity on 24-h energy expenditure and nutrient oxidation.

Melanson EL, Sharp TA, Seagle HM, Horton TJ, Donahoo WT, Grunwald GK, Hamilton JT, Hill JO.

Center for Human Nutrition, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, Denver, Colorado 80262, USA. [email protected]

The aim of this study was to determine the effects of exercise at different intensities on 24-h energy expenditure (EE) and substrate oxidation. Sixteen adults (8 men and 8 women) were studied on three occasions [sedentary day (Con), a low-intensity exercise day (LI; 400 kcal at 40% of maximal oxygen consumption) and a high-intensity exercise day (HI; 400 kcal at 70% of maximal oxygen consumption)] by using whole room indirect calorimetry. Both 24-h EE and carbohydrate oxidation were significantly elevated on the exercise days (Con < LI = HI), but 24-h fat oxidation was not different across conditions. Muscle enzymatic profile was not consistently related to 24-h fat or carbohydrate oxidation. With further analysis, it was found that, compared with men, women sustained slightly higher rates of 24-h fat oxidation (mg x kg FFM(-1) x min(-1)) and had a muscle enzymatic profile favoring fat oxidation. It is concluded that exercise intensity has no effect on 24-h EE or nutrient oxidation. Additionally, it appears that women may sustain slightly greater 24-h fat oxidation rates during waking and active periods of the day.

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Son of a bitch... why the fuck am I doing all this HIIT then?

 

[Peyomp]

J Sports Med Phys Fitness 1992 Jun;32(2):128-35 Related Articles, Links


Energy expenditure following a bout of non-steady state resistance exercise.

Melby CL, Tincknell T, Schmidt WD.

Department of Food Science and Human Nutrition, Colorado State University, Ft. Collins.

Little is known about the effect of non-steady state resistive exercise on postexercise energy expenditure. Using a counterbalanced design, energy expenditure was measured by indirect calorimetry in six adult males (mean age +/- SD = 24.5 +/- 6.1) for 30 min before and 60 min after a single 42 min bout of weight lifting, and again on a separate day for 30 min before and 60 min after a 42 min control period of quiet sitting. For the exercise condition the subjects performed 4 sets of upper and 3 sets of lower body resistive exercises at weights equivalent to a 12 repetition maximum for each respective lift. Metabolic rate remained significantly elevated at the end of the 60 min recovery period compared to the control condition, although the excess postexercise oxygen consumption accounted for only approximately 19 additional kcal expended. These data suggest that while postexercise metabolic remains elevated for at least one hour following a moderate level of resistive exercise, the caloric cost of this elevation during a one hour recovery period is small and similar to that induced by steady-state exercise of moderate intensity.

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According to this study, you don't burn more significantly more calories post workout...

 

[Peyomp]

Alright, fuck this. I've read abstracts till I'm now totally fucking confused about the effectiveness of cardio, and resistance training in increasing metabolism.

 

[jboldman]

I've worked with dozens, maybe hundreds of clients who all lowered their fat % by following my methods which included NO CARDIO. That doesn't mean I'm against sports, or walking or dancing or riding a bike or whatever you want to do. But fat loss comes from being in a calorie deficit.

>Aerobic exercise =calorie deficit


I will bet anyone $1000 right now that if I took two people of comparable genetics and made no changes other than one reduced his calorie intake by 25% and the other did 20 minutes of cardio 4 times a week, that the first guy will have less fat at the end of month. Guarenteed.


>Of course, let's see, 25% of a 3000 calorie diet is almost 800calories /day-5600calories per week, 20min of of low intensity cardio is what? 200cal/dayX4days equal 800 calories. Your logic here would be nice since your math is nowhere to be found.

It's diet. It's diet. It's diet. Oh, wait a minute; Quad already said that. Is he not big enough to give an opinion too?

>no one said diet was not important

The claim that aerobics will lengthen your life is hilareously misguided. Ask Jim Fixx how that's working out for him.

>To think that cardiovascular health is not a major risk fact is hilariously unguided! The Jim Fixx comment does not even deserve a response.

Still not getting anywhere, if you do not respond, I will drop it and we can all go our own ways.

jb

 

[Themachine01]

I will bet anyone $1000 right now that if I took two people of comparable genetics and made no changes other than one reduced his calorie intake by 25% and the other did 20 minutes of cardio 4 times a week, that the first guy will have less fat at the end of month. Guarenteed.

With all these clients you've worked with, I would think that you have a pretty good idea to what your doing. Everyone swears that they have the secret to this and to that. I have many friends that compete at different levels and all will argue different ideas like this thread. But, all do there share of cardio.

I will bet you $1000 right now that if you take two people of comparable genetics, one reduce calorie intake by 25% and adds 20 mins of cardio 4 times per week, and the other just reduces his calorie intake by 25%. The one doing both cardio and dropping cals will loose bf at a faster rate.