Cardio idea...

[wesley90]

Guys I was jw...if someone were to do like 3600 cals worth of cardio at around 65% of their max heart rate, how much muscle would you expect to lose? I figure since most of the cals burned would be fat that it wouldnt be too hard on your hard earned muscle.

Mods please dun move, cardio forum is dead.
Thanks.

 

[hunglikeaseahorse]

I dont know but thats a shit load of cardio--probably 4 hours worth

 

[wesley90]

Yeah, I just got back from doing 1500 cals and it took 1.5 hours...

 

[Makavelli]

It's completely genetically determined. However if you take a look at marathon runners, you'll have your answer...

 

[shamrock11]

I agree you can't be big and a marathon runner. You have to choose one or the other.

 

[wesley90]

Keep in mind marathon runners dont eat and lift like we do, so saying you will look like them is not a good comparison. Just look at some of the people who lift and arent getting results...

 

[Makavelli]

Keep in mind marathon runners dont eat and lift like we do, so saying you will look like them is not a good comparison. Just look at some of the people who lift and arent getting results...

That's not the point. The point is that burning that amount of cals in one day will cause one to lose muscle. Marathon runners actually eat a lot of calories and the still have little to muscle mass, even if they train with weights. That amount of cardio is extremely catabolic. It's best to do moderate cardio 7 days a week than long, strenous sessions that will rob you of your muscle. Don't say you weren't warned...

 

[wesley90]

That's not the point. The point is that burning that amount of cals in one day will cause one to lose muscle. Marathon runners actually eat a lot of calories and the still have little to muscle mass, even if they train with weights. That amount of cardio is extremely catabolic. It's best to do moderate cardio 7 days a week than long, strenous sessions that will rob you of your muscle. Don't say you weren't warned...

Is this from expirence or from what others have told you? I am keeping my heart rate at around 160 bpm, which isnt that much. Heck, I am not even really breathing hard at all...I dont see why it would be so catabolic to muscle tissue.

 

[Makavelli]

Is this from expirence or from what others have told you? I am keeping my heart rate at around 160 bpm, which isnt that much. Heck, I am not even really breathing hard at all...I dont see why it would be so catabolic to muscle tissue.

This is from having years of experience working with athletes and an in depth study of human physiology. Have you ever seen a muscular marathon runner? Me neither. When there are thousands of examples of x causing y, then it's easy to see the trend and we can therefore draw the conclusion that long distance running is extremely catabolic. This is common sense actually. There's no reason to argue about it. It's a well known fact that long distance running is detrimental to your health and your goals of gaining muscle and losing fat. Again, if you want to go against common sense and knowledge and try to prove us wrong, go at it. I'm just trying to steer you in the right direction.

A real world example of this is Dave Palumbo. He used to be a marathon runner before he was a bodybuilder. I don't see Dave doing any races now. Get it?

 

[wesley90]

OK, I think you are getting the wrong picture here.

This is how I see it...marathon runners run till they cant run anymore...they use every little bit of glycogen in them tiny legs. When all the glycogen runs out, that leaves fat and protein left as a fuel source. At extreme levels of exercise, protein will be used over fat. So these people are running on end and using protein as their primary source of fuel after maybe around 20-30 mintues of running...which will go for around 2 hours depending on the length of the race.

Now lets analyze what I have been doing. I weigh 240 pounds, around 20% BF. I will go on an elliptical machine at a rate which I feel I can do forever and do it for the 1.5 hours. After that I feel like I could do a whole leg workout no problem. That tells me that glycogen hasnt been used up and my muscles are fully charged. That leaves fat and protein as possible fuel sources. Protein will be broken down when somewhere in the body other than muscles need amino acids to function and when glucose is needed for energy.

"depletion of muscle and liver glycogen reserves often coincide with exhaustion"

http://www.ms-se.com/pt/re/msse/abstract.00005768-200209000-00012.htm;jsessionid=CFhfByNFY5VC3l78MGt6ZzjmPUhW8Gnqb9eKLcLUn2EL1Dd3ycZk!1641739476!-949856032!9001!-1

So again, this tells me that glycogen isnt the primary source of fuel as I exercise.

So as long as I am getting enough carbohydrate to fuel other bodily processes, there should be little muscle loss due to this prolonged exercise.

 

[wesley90]

"Free fatty acids are an important source of fuel for many tissues since they can yield relatively large quantities of Quick Facts about: ATP
A nucleotide derived from adenosine that occurs in muscle tissue; the major source of energy for cellular reactionsATP. Typically many cell types can use either glucose or fatty acids for this purpose. However, heart and skeletal muscle prefer fatty acids. On the other hand, brain cannot use fatty acids as a source of fuel, relying instead on glucose."

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/f/fa/fatty_acid.htm

So, I think its pretty common knowledge that the body will use glycogen stored in muscle for glucose before it breaks down muscle to make glucose. Thus, as long as you arent burning those glycogen stores and are consuming a small amount of carbohydrate, there is no reason that this prolong exercise will cause muscle loss.

 

[BOOEY]

You'e ignoring a very important issue here: Cortisol.

Cortisol levels raise dramatically during prolonged training/cardio sessions. Coritsol is a muscle-wasting hormone. Supplementing your 2 hour+ cardio session with carbs is not going to keep cortisol levels down. The only thing that will is to stop the exercising completely.

 

[wesley90]

Cortisol is beyond a "muscle-wasting" hormone. But that is besides the point. Firstly, my cardio session is 1.5 hours. Secondly, I HIGHLY doubt cortisol levels that high...hell I am barely sweating.

 

[BOOEY]

One way to find out .... let us know the results