Carao

[tomnossor]

I am currently trying to understand how taking this Carao will be different then supplementing with Iron. I read that the Carao is organically bound iron (this was part of an explanation of why it might be acceptable to take Carao with milk).

Effective bio-available iron supplements have existed for a long time (inhibited absorption in milk BTW). Men (who do not bleed regularly like woman do monthly) are cautioned from taking too much iron as their needs are usually met by diet. Some evidence suggests that excess iron increases free radical production (a risk in some cancer) and might increase heart disease risk.

That being said perhaps the organically bound iron is able to stimulate the production of red blood cells, but does not led to free radical production and arterial changes. Or perhaps not.

These are some questions I am exploring.
I have assume a few things that perhaps I shouldn’t:

1. If Iron supplementation led to the superman feeling and the increased strength, body builders would have been taking iron supplements long ago.
2. If Carao delivered excessive iron in detrimental quantities then the dosing scheme undertaken by some of the body builders here would have resulted in acute toxicity. So this must not be the case.

I am interested in knowing if anyone else has considered these things and/or has any thoughts on it.

Thanks,
TOm

 

[SofaGeorge]

Can you post a link to any of this? I've been reading everything available on carao, and I've never seen any reference to it being "organically bound iron."'

 

[wartime100]

I would like to see the link as well. I don't know how you can argue with all the testomonials. I started mine 5 days ago and already feel an increase in energy despite being sick with pnemonia.

 

[SofaGeorge]

I would like to see the link as well. I don't know how you can argue with all the testomonials. I started mine 5 days ago and already feel an increase in energy despite being sick with pnemonia.

The only reference I've seen to carao and iron is that carao is "high in iron" but in the same way spinach is high in iron. The actual amount of iron is negligible.

 

[Frackal]

Its not the iron baby

 

[Triple J]

I got my Carao in the mail today and it tastes great!! The things we'll do for muscle ... LOL Reminds me of when I use to blend raw liver into my shakes.

Well, here is a quote from Loyd's note he sent out regarding the shipment, he talks about mixing with milk, and mentions the organically bound iron. So he kind of implies iron is an important aspect of the supplement ...


MILK
Milk is never recommended for iron supplements, as it is reported to bind to iron and inhibit absorption. However, the iron in carao is bound up in organic molecules and might escape the detrimental effect of milk. Also, the animal studies conducted in Nicaragua (anemia) used carao mixed with milk during the first years, with no loss of effectiveness reported. Quite simply, I do not know whether or not to recommend milk. However, I do believe that if taken in milk, you will not get the full "I feel like superman" feeling that carao is famous for when taken pure or diluted moderately in water.

 

[SofaGeorge]

I got my Carao in the mail today and it tastes great!! The things we'll do for muscle ... LOL Reminds me of when I use to blend raw liver into my shakes.

Well, here is a quote from Loyd's note he sent out regarding the shipment, he talks about mixing with milk, and mentions the organically bound iron. So he kind of implies iron is an important aspect of the supplement ...


MILK
Milk is never recommended for iron supplements, as it is reported to bind to iron and inhibit absorption. However, the iron in carao is bound up in organic molecules and might escape the detrimental effect of milk. Also, the animal studies conducted in Nicaragua (anemia) used carao mixed with milk during the first years, with no loss of effectiveness reported. Quite simply, I do not know whether or not to recommend milk. However, I do believe that if taken in milk, you will not get the full "I feel like superman" feeling that carao is famous for when taken pure or diluted moderately in water.

Thanks Triple J... I'll drop Lloyd an email about this. Carao should not be considered an "iron" supplement in my opinion. It does contain a high iron content for a fruit... but it also doesn't contain even remotely as much as even a children's Flintstone vitamin. If you read through Lloyd's site... he's a total life long dedicated organic farmer and naturalist. He approaches supplementation from the same philosophy (i.e., get vitamins and minerals from food.) But in the real world, the amount of iron you get from carao is negligible compared to taking a 5mg iron supplement tablet. (I think Lloyd's philosophy is akin to saying you can get lots of vitamin C from oranges. Well, it would take you a bag of 50-60 oranges to get the equivalent of one vitamin C tablet... but if your world view is that "organic and natural" is better... then at least you are accurate.)

His original intent in marketing carao was that it be used to treat anemia, but even the astounding efficacy that carao has as an anemia cure has little to do with its iron content.

 

[tomnossor]

Yes (Triple J), Lloyd’s note is where I got the “organically bound” statement from.

I trust nobody is questioning that excess iron in the diet is POSSIBLELY detrimental to your heart and increases free radicals in the body.

Here is a pretty good summary of the current debate on iron, but info is all over the net:
http://www.nutritionfocus.com/nutrition_library/iron_heart.html

There is a significant difference between heme (animal source iron like liver) and non-heme (plant source iron like spinach) iron intake. It seems that non-heme is not typically absorbed to the detriment of health (if iron is adequate non-heme does not seem to increase iron in the body), but heme iron seems to be absorbed in either case. I seem to remember fuzzily that some of the difference (heme to non-heme) has to do with the oxidation state of the iron when it enters the body.

One would expect that Carao iron is a plant source iron.

“Its not the iron baby” – Frackal. This is actually not dissimilar to my point. My two assumptions suggest that acute toxicity would have likely been seen by those who likely have taken 10 tablespoon per day for a few days if iron was really entering the body at an alarming rate. Also, as bodybuilders are always looking for the next best thing, someone must have tried typical iron supplements and found no panacea of strength and well-being.

Since, “Its not the iron baby!” (at least not totally and not in a conventional iron supplement way) I am still left with what is it. My Carao research has led me to the conclusion that I will not be risking chronic toxicity with a small dose and I will likely achieve the feeling of well-being reported (I will also up my Vit C and Vit E for simple anti-oxidants just in case). This is the path I intent to take, but I thought I would probe around here for any more info.

Sofageorge, have you (or Fonz) read:
Valencia, E., A. Madinaveitia, A.G. González, J. Bermejo and M.P. Gupta. 1995. Alkaloids from Cassia grandis. Fitoterapia 66: 476-477.
I sent email to Dr. Emir Valencia and may pursue some of his co-authors, but I won’t look for the publication unless I am in a major library (and then I would likely have a translation problem). I think if you search for “Cassia grandis” you might find some publications (I have begun to pursue this), but so far I have not found anything on the net other than the Carao cattle studies you already posted.

Thank, TOm

 

[SofaGeorge]

Sofageorge, have you (or Fonz) read:
Valencia, E., A. Madinaveitia, A.G. González, J. Bermejo and M.P. Gupta. 1995. Alkaloids from Cassia grandis. Fitoterapia 66: 476-477.
I sent email to Dr. Emir Valencia and may pursue some of his co-authors, but I won’t look for the publication unless I am in a major library (and then I would likely have a translation problem). I think if you search for “Cassia grandis” you might find some publications (I have begun to pursue this), but so far I have not found anything on the net other than the Carao cattle studies you already posted.

Thank, TOm

Good post, Tom.

Yes, I've looked at the studies. You can also find some other worthwhile info on PubMed. Mostly in doing research on carao I was hampered in the beginning by:

A: Lack of published information in English (what little there is is mostly in Spanish) (Fortuntely, Fonz is a native Spanish speaker and is now actively contributing to research.)

and

B: Just how little published information there really is on carao. It is, in my oppinion, a very overlooked substance.

One explanation for the lack of information may be simply that until Lloyd started bottling his extract, I'm pretty sure there wasn't any available extract (and therefore, no raw material to provide to researchers outside of Costa Rica... where research dollars are scarce.)

I spoke to Lloyd this morning for the first time. He literally hiked 6 miles to a payphone to take the call. I found him to be an extremely intelligent... actually brilliant... and highly talkative guy. (Lots of brain cells clicking together rapid fire. He was describing to me how he will be having a phone line put in in December... and then we will have much better access to him. He is literally going to be the ONLY person in his area to have a phone... and he is only getting it because he made a special arrangement with the Costa Rican government to take over the existing phone line that they were about to abandon now that they are building a new cell phone (?) tower in a town several miles from him. It was amazing to listen to him talk about it. He new every aspect of the equipment and how it worked and was able to convince the government that he had the knowledge base to maintain the line.)

I asked him about the iron issue and he is writing a response for us to post. In a nutshell, his consensus is that the iron issue is moot. There just isn't enough iron in a plant source to ever lead to toxicity. (He said he is going to send the chart listing iron contents of plants. Carao has three times the amount of iron as kale.)

He is also going to write an interview (w/pictures) of a legendary Costa Rican strong man who is using carao (w/ great results.) By Lloyd's description the guy is quite a character, and if you notice I use the description "strong man" rather than powerlifter. From what I understand the guy is a top arm wrestling competitor. He credits carao with taking him to international status. (Lloyd shot too much info about the guy to me too fast here for me to do a synopsis.)

Lloyd is also going to put together more information for us on his children's anemia work. This is going to include some of the kids who have already benifited from our interest in carao. (Our sales are basically paying for Lloyd's anemia work... so hopefully this will put some faces on what is being done here.)

Lloyd told me that he only has a $49 digital camera that his dad sent him a couple years ago... so I am going to go on E-Bay today to buy him a better one. I'm not sure how long it will take to get to him.

 

[valerie]

Thanks for the update. I am looking forward to recieving my order of carao. -valerie