Can you do helladrol PTC with OTC?

[Planteater]

I know there are various business interests at work here which I don't understand which are going to skew the answer, but take this hypothetical:

If A lab rat had a rat sized bottle of helladrol that was from mr supps and shrunk down with a shrink ray, could it use OTC pct? I mean mr supps sells such OTC stacks with its ds and I learned about a lot of others here. Is this at all possible?

I realize if gm erupts then that's going to suck with only OTC, but for everything else might it be okay?

What's your opinion? I have read Nelson m's posts btw...

For you humans, the rats age translates to 49 human years and it has no access to blood work but very healthy and fit, including the tiny little penis it has.

And ps it's just a question-- I'm not going to give the rat anything for months to come if at all.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I think the big conflict here is very misunderstood.

We can argue all day about the effectiveness of drugs vs natural supplements, but there is one big factor -- the one major difference, that cannot be denied...

A drug stops working once you stop using it. So even if you avoid the nasty side effects and even if helps elevate hormone levels,once you stop you will be right back to square one a few weeks later. That is a fact. There is not one study that shows that HPTA remained restored after cessation of use of these drugs.

With natural means, the body adapts to its circumstances, making the recovery its "natural" state.

Keep in mind that a lot of "natural" products sold for PCT are just marketing gimmicks and not especially effective in spite of their title and promo. You need the correct compounds to trigger the correct responses.

I used a 100% natural PCT (which includes BRIDGE) and have held on to a good portion of the gains I made from the cycle I did for the show in which I competed. <

 

[infraredline]

Well said Nelson. I forget who it was but someone on here commented in a post, "when you combine eastern medicine with western medicine you get the best results"

 

[Planteater]

Hi Nelson,

very happy to hear from you as if i go this route i am definitely going to need to be in touch with you.

i suppose you are exempting aas from the list of drugs that have no lasting effects, otherwise there's no point in taking them.

for the others i dont get the form of your argument exactly, though perhaps you are simplifying it for time purposes, and even though the will to believe is VERY strong in me, and it's that how could so many people be so wrong? They are all deluded and taking these drugs PTC, and it's just leading to nothing in the end? How could that be so? They are having a natural spontaneous recovery after they get over the drugs they took post PCT, and then believing it was the PCT that did it?

There is just so much experimentation and years of experience, and its all wrong?

 

[stevesmi]

for a short acting oral cycle that is 4-6 weeks you don't need a SERM at all. just go OTC route.

i recommend phyto-serms as that is what it was specifically designed to do or if you can afford it T Stack RX. (see my sig for banners and codes)

there are ample PCT protocols from mr supps and NTBM as well. so your options are unlimited.

 

[RickRock13]

As Ne.son Pointed out,when you come off of SERMS your tet levels will go back to what they were. The effects of the drug only last while on them. They help to bring back the HPTA but its effects on high testosterone levels are short lived. There are many great herbal alternatives nowadays that will give you a much smoother recovery like Test Stack and PHYTOSERMS. I like the bet of both worlds, but a SERM my not be necessary in your situation. You can also mi minimize your shutdown by running HCGenerate during your cycle as well.

 

[dylangemelli]

I am a proponent, whether the cycle is more mild or much stronger, that an extensive pct should be used... We all have a different physiological makeup, thus making it hard to determine in our first cycles especially, just how shut down we are... Can you get buy without a serm on a cycle like this? Probably... Is it worth even chancing it? To me, its not... You definitely don't need two and you need to keep the dosage moderate but to me, its better to incorporate everything into a pct, regardless of the cycle... Cover all your bases... I definitely recommend running hcgenerate on cycle as well as n2guard with any oral... Here is the pct I would recommend... What you do is up to you but I will always recommend extensive pct protocol no matter the cycle...

clomid 50/50/25/25 AGguys.com
unleahsed/post cycle combo ntbm.com
forma stanzol mrsupps.com
Keto burn MRSUPPS.COM
ostarine 25 mg day uniquemicals.com

phytoserms and hcgenerate can be used in place of the unleashed/post cycle combo if they are out of stock

 

[Planteater]

thanks. I am taking all this in. so, the only pro-drug PCT post only has one prescription med in it, Clomid. no nolva?

so thats not a huge argument in favor of drugs, its mostly OTC you are recommending.

Regardless, I will definitely do unleashed, and also see myself kicking in transderms near the end of the hdol cycle just because i know i dont cope well with lethargy.... but thats for a future discussion.

As for phytoserms, if memory serves, thats mostly transderm pregnenalone and dhea? I have those transderms on hand as well as forma stanzol. I suppose Need2 is probably more trustworthy than the transderm preg and dhea I have, because its serious business he's in whereas these other vitamin makers, who knows what they really care about and what in it.

So is this message board mostly progressive on the use of OTC, kind of frontier and forefront? Because it seems different than other places that are much more straight traditional drugs.

 

[dylangemelli]

thanks. I am taking all this in. so, the only pro-drug PCT post only has one prescription med in it, Clomid. no nolva?

so thats not a huge argument in favor of drugs, its mostly OTC you are recommending.

Regardless, I will definitely do unleashed, and also see myself kicking in transderms near the end of the hdol cycle just because i know i dont cope well with lethargy.... but thats for a future discussion.

As for phytoserms, if memory serves, thats mostly transderm pregnenalone and dhea? I have those transderms on hand as well as forma stanzol. I suppose Need2 is probably more trustworthy than the transderm preg and dhea I have, because its serious business he's in whereas these other vitamin makers, who knows what they really care about and what in it.

So is this message board mostly progressive on the use of OTC, kind of frontier and forefront? Because it seems different than other places that are much more straight traditional drugs.

yes, clomid is the only one with med in it... all of the rest are otc...

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hi Nelson,

very happy to hear from you as if i go this route i am definitely going to need to be in touch with you.

i suppose you are exempting aas from the list of drugs that have no lasting effects, otherwise there's no point in taking them.

for the others i dont get the form of your argument exactly, though perhaps you are simplifying it for time purposes, and even though the will to believe is VERY strong in me, and it's that how could so many people be so wrong? They are all deluded and taking these drugs PTC, and it's just leading to nothing in the end? How could that be so? They are having a natural spontaneous recovery after they get over the drugs they took post PCT, and then believing it was the PCT that did it?

There is just so much experimentation and years of experience, and its all wrong?

Actually they do stop working, but if you built muscle in the interim, you can hold on to some of that muscle. That's different from an artificial boost in LH or FSH. Even HCG just gives a temporary boost which is a little jump start, but it doesn't last. You need to use both drugs and natural alternatives wisely to achieve the best results.

 

[dylangemelli]

Actually they do stop working, but if you built muscle in the interim, you can hold on to some of that muscle. That's different from an artificial boost in LH or FSH. Even HCG just gives a temporary boost which is a little jump start, but it doesn't last. You need to use both drugs and natural alternatives wisely to achieve the best results.

definitely agree...

 

[Planteater]

thanks... the presc meds just seem like bumper pads to cushion your fall, then, aside from gyno emergencies caused by estrogen (as opposed to prolactin, which I guess they dont help with).

then they are not truly "therapeutic" as in the name "PCT"

and good point: muscles are physically dense things that dont go away as fast as hormone levels, because there is nutrition and exertion input into their physical construction material, whereas there is no work we can do to lift our LH.

haulin hooks for LH would be awesome