Cable Low Row - do you use it? Come on in!!

[Daisy_Girl]

I really like the Cable Low Row, is one of the few back exercises I LIKE and really feel. (I hate training back and biceps)

But tonight, while I was doing it, I had a couple questions.

1) What attachment do you use? Why?
2) Where do you pull to?

 

[Sassy69]

Do you mean the seated cable row? I've used the close grip and the wide grip. I pull to right in front of my boobs (damn things are too big to pull tight up to pecs) on the close grip. Same on the wide grip but further out.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Yah, the seated cable row .....

I pull it to the same place. I wish my gym had the wide grip handles, but they don't. They only have the close ones, and I don't like those as much. I use the straight bar.

I am just curious - trying to get some alternate workout ideas.

 

[The Shadow]

wellllllll...................



it depends




Short straight bar

Saddle handle

Rope


Wide pulldown bar

 

[Roonytunes]

Yes, I use this - it's a staple back exercise for me and I find it rather effective. I mostly use the v-grip, but will also use the short straight bar with medium grip to vary the motion once in a while. I lean over, pull it up to a seated position, take a momentary pause and then pull it all the way back just under or at my bust line and squeeze....rinse, lather, repeat.

 

[Miss24k]

wellllllll...................



it depends




Short straight bar

Saddle handle

Rope


Wide pulldown bar

I've used all that S mentionned.

 

[*Bunny*]

I've used all that S mentionned.

^^ Ditto ...I prefer the bar that looks like the W and I tend to use this to pull 'low' ...below chest and squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.

I think S had me pulling high to chest/chin area for more rear delts ... kicks my butt.

 

[The Shadow]

^^ Ditto ...I prefer the bar that looks like the W and I tend to use this to pull 'low' ...below chest and squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.

I think S had me pulling high to chest/chin area for more rear delts ... kicks my butt.

Yeppers...



GENERAL RULE:


WIDE GRIP = INNER BACK
CLOSER GRIP = OUTER LATS

LOW ANGLE OF PULL = LOWER ON BACK
HIGH ANGLE OF PULL = RHOM/REAR DELTS


Those are GENERAL rules

 

[superqt4u2nv]

I've used all that S mentionned.

Dito but I still prefer tbar or one arms to all of that. I used to use the wide bar to hit rear delts but I find it way more effective to do it with DB's seated now. I do however like the cable high row with the close grip v-shaped deal it is a good closer to back.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Short straight bar
wide pulldown bar

These are the two I use the most .....

I also like using the 2 separate handles together. The handles are the ones that most people use to work one side at a time. I link both in and pull together.

I don't have the W shaped attachment - I forgot about that one, I liked it.

 

[nsashbl01]

These are the two I use the most .....

I also like using the 2 separate handles together. The handles are the ones that most people use to work one side at a time. I link both in and pull together.

I don't have the W shaped attachment - I forgot about that one, I liked it.

If you use two handles together, be sure to rotate your pinkys out when you stretch. Then rotate thumbs out when pulling. It'll help to open up and stretch your scapula. Also be sure to really pinch on the top of your concentric move. I put my fingers on hoteach's back and make sure she pinch's them.

 

[scorpiogirl]

There is another variation that Future and I use. They're called "hump back cable rows" or as he would call them "Tami Rows". Using the close grip you lean forward and round your back. Start at a full stretch with arms straight and then pull back to your kneecaps. You don't sit up at all while doing these. They work GREAT for lats.

 

[future]

Yeppers...



GENERAL RULE:


WIDE GRIP = INNER BACK
CLOSER GRIP = OUTER LATS

LOW ANGLE OF PULL = LOWER ON BACK
HIGH ANGLE OF PULL = RHOM/REAR DELTS


Those are GENERAL rules

I am actually gonna disagree with the general rule you are stating. I would state that a wider grip tends to work more of the insertion point of the lat thus giving the concept of working the outer portion.

My thoughts are rowing movements tend to work the general mass of the back while a stretching movement like a pulldown or pullover tends to work the width.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

If you use two handles together, be sure to rotate your pinkys out when you stretch. Then rotate thumbs out when pulling. It'll help to open up and stretch your scapula. Also be sure to really pinch on the top of your concentric move. I put my fingers on hoteach's back and make sure she pinch's them.

I do that to some degree - I will work on more rotation though. Good point.

 

[nsashbl01]

Scorpio's method is good for the stretch but be carefull with a rounded back with any amount of weight. If yo all remember Elana, she ended up with a bulging disk from similar movements.

P and I do many things for lats with cables. That and pullups is what gave her the new lats she's carrying.

 

[future]

Tami rows would be something in a higher rep range. The back isnt as rounded as you might think. But obviously you have to be careful.

 

[*Bunny*]

Scorpio's method is good for the stretch but be carefull with a rounded back with any amount of weight. If yo all remember Elana, she ended up with a bulging disk from similar movements.

P and I do many things for lats with cables. That and pullups is what gave her the new lats she's carrying.

My back blew up with a lot of wide grip work, chins, rows, pulldowns, wide wide wide.
I miss Elana catch her over on IT

 

[The Shadow]

I am actually gonna disagree with the general rule you are stating. I would state that a wider grip tends to work more of the insertion point of the lat thus giving the concept of working the outer portion.

My thoughts are rowing movements tend to work the general mass of the back while a stretching movement like a pulldown or pullover tends to work the width.

I'm not going to get into this but I think its worth noting the difference between the lats and the midback(traps etc)......as stated and confirmed with emg analysis - a seated row is a pretty good choice for mid-back development......

Do this.......take a regular grip and a typical seated row handle(saddle) - pull into stomach and try to flex the midback.

Now take a wide grip on a straight bar and pull a bit higher into the sternum and flex mid back.

You cant compare wide-grip pulldowns and compare the same grip on seated rows and assume the outcome is the same....It wont be - as the AOP(angle of pull) is totally different.


a pulldown is not a stretch position for the lats btw - it has to be a position where the arms are extended above AND behind(posterior) the head



Saying that rows = mass and pulldowns = width is a bit too simplistic.

Hand grips, angles of pull, and rotation or non rotation of shoulder blades and even the amount of wegith as a % maximum all make an impact on the details of where the target area get hit.


Do some widegrip curls to failure


DO some close grip curls to failure



then compare the areas of soreness



....what about angles as they involve foot position on leg exercises??

Toes in??

Toes out??


Does that make a difference??


Yes it does...emg confirms this....same applies to ALL muscle groups

 

[future]

I cant disagree more with you. You are just wrong.

 

[scorpiogirl]

I'm not going to get into this but I think its worth noting the difference between the lats and the midback(traps etc)......as stated and confirmed with emg analysis - a seated row is a pretty good choice for mid-back development......

Do this.......take a regular grip and a typical seated row handle(saddle) - pull into stomach and try to flex the midback.

Now take a wide grip on a straight bar and pull a bit higher into the sternum and flex mid back.

You cant compare wide-grip pulldowns and compare the same grip on seated rows and assume the outcome is the same....It wont be - as the AOP(angle of pull) is totally different.


a pulldown is not a stretch position for the lats btw - it has to be a position where the arms are extended above AND behind(posterior) the head



Saying that rows = mass and pulldowns = width is a bit too simplistic.

Hand grips, angles of pull, and rotation or non rotation of shoulder blades and even the amount of wegith as a % maximum all make an impact on the details of where the target area get hit.


Do some widegrip curls to failure


DO some close grip curls to failure



then compare the areas of soreness



....what about angles as they involve foot position on leg exercises??

Toes in??

Toes out??


Does that make a difference??


Yes it does...emg confirms this....same applies to ALL muscle groups

I would say a pulldown (at the top of the rep) would def be a stretch. I can feel it every time. In any case, we all have our own methods and opinions. I don't think any of them are wrong unless injury is a factor.

 

[The Shadow]

I cant disagree more with you. You are just wrong.

Yeaaahhhhhhh






Everything I have stated about hand/foot placement was been demonstrated in several studies.....especially via Magnetic Res Imaging


Muscle meets Magnet for example.


Do some research orb.

Some things are true whether you believe them or not.

 

[future]

I will put my experience and many others against whatever studies you want. And say what you want about toe placement etc its all attached to the same tendons. Not gonna matter. EMG testing is great for muscle efficiency but not a false safe to recruitment. Nor is EMG unbiased because not all exercises are studied.

I am shocked that you are saying a pulldown is not a stretch. Are you just kidding me? Ask me how you STRETCH your lats?

 

[The Shadow]

Tell you what.....start here:


http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showexcerpt.cfm?excerpt_id=3004

and here:


http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=0880119381




...and educate yourself a bit.

 

[future]

Educate yourself man. You are wrong. And thanks for answering my questions. You dodge quite often. I have Human Kinetics bookmarked already. Lab rat stuff is nice but they dont teach bodybuilding. Experience matters. Get some.

 

[The Shadow]

I will put my experience and many others against whatever studies you want. And say what you want about toe placement etc its all attached to the same tendons. Not gonna matter. EMG testing is great for muscle efficiency but not a false safe to recruitment. Nor is EMG unbiased because not all exercises are studied.

I am shocked that you are saying a pulldown is not a stretch. Are you just kidding me? Ask me how you STRETCH your lats?

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=310stretch2


LMFAO @ EMG being biased.


You reallllyyyy need to do some digging my friend.

 

[The Shadow]

Educate yourself man. You are wrong. And thanks for answering my questions. You dodge quite often. I have Human Kinetics bookmarked already. Lab rat stuff is nice but they dont teach bodybuilding. Experience matters. Get some.

did you ask a question??



Oh...you mean about stetching the lats??


Each muscle has a ROM and a POF

stretching a muscle has ZERO to do with its POF stretch position.



Experience??


LMAO - you are really clueless.


Im not the one posting on EF asking for clients Nancy.


Or throwing up links for supplement companies and using a "discount" code which directly benefits YOU


Nicely done....now why dont you crawl back under whatever Cyber-rock you slithered from before I verbally snap that stack of dimes you call a neck and have you booted so faster than you can say POF??

 

[future]

Tell you what you can have Elite all to yourself. I wont challenge your thoughts anymore. The spotlight is all yours. Please ban me into oblivion.

 

[future]

did you ask a question??



Oh...you mean about stetching the lats??


Each muscle has a ROM and a POF

stretching a muscle has ZERO to do with its POF stretch position.



Experience??


LMAO - you are really clueless.


Im not the one posting on EF asking for clients Nancy.

Dude just go fuck yourself. Your clients have asked me questions and for help.

 

[The Shadow]

and not give you a chance to admit you are wrong??


Where's the fun in that.


Read up on those links.....there will be a quiz tomorrow.


Oh yeah....Alpha Lipoic Acid, YES - might want to beef up on those as well.

 

[The Shadow]

Dude just go fuck yourself. Your clients have asked me questions and for help.

LMAO


I only have ONE client on here, regardless of what you might have been told.....again - you are showing your ass on ANOTHER topic you are CLUELESS about.


Who asked you what again??


lol

 

[future]

I suggest you be honest with people and NOT sell snake oil as well. ALA is overrated. And I know someone that thinks Glucorell R is a waste of money. And I still stand my the yohimbe stuff. Still this site is about selling too.

EMG testing? I posted on this. I believe it has merit to give direction to people. But thats it.

I don't need to bone up on the sites but noted. I have experience. I'll take that over an exercise physiologists tests any day of the week.

That being said, you can still call me and argue whenever you want.

 

[Gymgurl]

I love anything on cables....but rows is one of my favs......

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Annnnyyywayyyyyyyy

 

[velvett]

HEY!

ENOUGH!

Future - you're new here, sorry you haven't earned the right to be so God damn cocky.
Shadow - stop being so God damn cocky, it's not becoming and you have nothing yo uneed to prove.

Regardless of who is right and who is wrong - regardless if anyone is specifically right or wrong; we all know there's a lot opinions about fitness, weight lifting and nutrition so the grey area is huge.

Future - you don't know anything about Shadow or his background nor what he has brought to this board (along with many other mods and members). Simply agree to disagree and drop it.

Shadow - drop it, everyone here knows - this is a battle that can not be won.


Ya'll (ALL OF YOU HERE) - wanna be two faced talk behinds each other's backs and kiss each other's a$$ here in public go right ahead but do not forget this - it will in time bite you in the a$$, it always does.

Keep it up - I have no problems deleting posts and if need be - threads.

I've watched too many people here have worked hard to see this board flourish and grow in a positive manner and I won't sit here and watch that be undone.

Don't like it?

Talk to Digger.

 

[digger]

What Velvett said. She has my full support to delete any post, thread -- or if it comes to that membership that she deems necessary to the appropriate, adult function of this board and this site.

 

[digger]

Earlier today, The_Future posted personal information -- an actual street address -- of an alleged scammer, as well as email information about several others, without clearing any of the allegations with a mod.

That's a banning offense here, and would be one whether the thread above existed or not. I wanted to be sure that is clear to anyone who has read this far.