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Bye-Bye Middle class...

Huckster

New member
It was nice knowin ya...


CNNMoney.com

Middle-class families in worse shape than ever, study finds

Typical families have not stashed enough money; struggling to pay for home, insurance, and education according to Center for American Progress.

September 28 2006: 4:41 PM EDT


WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The typical double-income family is worse off financially than ever, a study released Thursday said, warning that few Americans have saved enough to brace for financial setbacks.

Middle-class families are struggling to pay for a home, health insurance, transportation and their children's college with wages that have not kept pace with higher prices, according to the study by a think tank headed by a former top aide to President Bill Clinton.


The middle class's financial condition has been a key issue ahead of the November elections, as Democrats warn that this group is fast losing economic ground amid skyrocketing prices and tax cuts that offer them little benefit.

"In our estimates, it's becoming harder for families to afford what we consider a typical middle-class lifestyle," said economist Christian Weller of the Center for American Progress, the political think tank headed by John Podesta, a former Clinton chief of staff.

Weller cautioned that while Americans are taking on more debt to cover higher costs, wages have not kept pace.

The majority of Americans have not socked away enough money to brace for financial setbacks such as a job loss or a medical emergency.

According to the study, less than a third of all American families have accumulated income equaling three months of their wages. The trend is particularly pronounced among the 60 percent income distribution that makes up the middle class: those with dual incomes earning from $18,500 to $88,030 a year.

From 2001 to 2004, the proportion of middle-class families that has saved three months' worth of income dropped to 18.3 percent from 28.8 percent, the study said.

Higher prices for a range of things - including health care, energy, transportation, food and education - have put Americans in this position as corporate profits have risen, the study said.

It said, that five years into the current economic recovery, average job growth is one-fifth that of previous business cycles and wages are flat when inflation is factored into the equation.

To maintain day-to-day consumption, families have taken on a record amount of debt, equal to 126.4 percent of disposable income in the first quarter of 2006, according to the study.

Commenting on the study, SEIU Labor Union President Andy Stern said, "Of the total amount of our economy and income, we have the greatest share going to profits in modern history and the least amount going to wages in modern history."

"For most working Americans, things are far worse than any time certainly in recent history and at a time of an incredibly growing economy." said Stern, whose union represents 1.1 million health care workers.
 
Most are stupid fucks that bought homes too big to afford on one-salary and cars they couldn't afford...tough shit.
 
It's amazing what marketing can do, eh? This day and age of spendthirft consumer are gone.
 
Great Post Huck

thanks bro

the assault on the middle class is just begining
just wait another 5-10 years when even the highly brainwashed wil start to realize......
 
OMEGA said:
the assault on the middle class is just begining
just wait another 5-10 years when even the highly brainwashed wil start to realize......

Just running my damn business has become difficult with fuel/energy costs soaring into the ass-rape stratosphere. I've watched what little profits I once made get smaller and smaller over the past several years. Working more and more hours just to survive. Shit that is going on in this day and age is focking nauseating.
 
yet large companies have it all dont they

1)Exporting labor to oppressive countries with no labor or environmental standards.
2)Have profits come back to these companies only to go to offshore Tax havens ( legal btw thanks to Bush)
3) companies use money or for ourpolticians to even further assault the middle class and downtrodden
4) Delibratly stupify the public school system and underfund it to blind the people as mch as possible
5) Media Elite confine opinion through a very narrow lense......
 
Last edited:
Let's not get carried away here.

People want to buy more stuff and are willing to dip into their own pocket / credit lines to do it. Who's fault is that?

If I can convince you that you need my shit (whatever I'm selling) and you buy it, who is at fault?
 
EnderJE said:
Let's not get carried away here.

People want to buy more stuff and are willing to dip into their own pocket / credit lines to do it. Who's fault is that?

If I can convince you that you need my shit (whatever I'm selling) and you buy it, who is at fault?

Go Plat! lolololololol
 
EnderJE said:
Let's not get carried away here.

People want to buy more stuff and are willing to dip into their own pocket / credit lines to do it. Who's fault is that?

If I can convince you that you need my shit (whatever I'm selling) and you buy it, who is at fault?


you do know where labor rights came from right?
Public schools?
the 40 hour work week?
the right to unionize?
fair pay?

off the back of people who GOT KILLED for standing up for the working class less then 60 years ago and though out the 1900's......

ALL OF YOU EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU
are too willing to attack your own breathren who speak out FOR YOU
and you have forgotten the History that gives you any Safety today or comfort........

humble your selves......
 
Wages simply can't keep pace as companies HAVE to pay their CEOs million dollar bonuses, salaries, etc......can't expect the worker-bees to be paid a living wage, now can we??
 
OMEGA said:
you do know where labor rights came from right?
Public schools?
the 40 hour work week?
the right to unionize?
fair pay?

off the back of people who GOT KILLED for standing up for the working class less then 60 years ago and though out the 1900's......

ALL OF YOU EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU
are too willing to attack your own breathren who speak out FOR YOU
and you have forgotten the History that gives you any Safety today or comfort........

humble your selves......
I have no idea how your comments connect to mine.

I'm saying that the person is at fault for their own behaviours. If you buy my shit and get yourself into a bigger debt hole, then why bitch about it to me? I'm the guy who sold it to you in the first place?!
 
jenscats5 said:
Wages simply can't keep pace as companies HAVE to pay their CEOs million dollar bonuses, salaries, etc......can't expect the worker-bees to be paid a living wage, now can we??
Sure they do. Let's look at who contributes more to the company bottom line. Joe Nobody on the floor contributes X while 'Fat Cat' CEO contributes X*Y. Hence, CEO gets money.
 
EnderJE said:
I have no idea how your comments connect to mine.

I'm saying that the person is at fault for their own behaviours. If you buy my shit and get yourself into a bigger debt hole, then why bitch about it to me? I'm the guy who sold it to you in the first place?!


I was attacking the "personal resposbility" part of your arguement.

its part of the lattice work of the issue but not nearly the majority of it.

others think it is.
 
OMEGA said:
I was attacking the "personal resposbility" part of your arguement.

its part of the lattice work of the issue but not nearly the majority of it.

others think it is.
So, you're saying that it's not personal responsibilty?

For me, I usually chalk up all of society's woes to it (and causal effect). For example, I know that when I look at pics of Jessica Alba, I get a funny feeling in the groin area. I shouldn't hide it or down play it. I should just know it's comming when I see her.
 
EnderJE said:
So, you're saying that it's not personal responsibilty?


only part of it.

The "rules" of the system exert most of the influence...........

those who writes the rules determines the favorable course of the waters
 
Huckster said:
It was nice knowin ya...


CNNMoney.com

Middle-class families in worse shape than ever, study finds

Typical families have not stashed enough money; struggling to pay for home, insurance, and education according to Center for American Progress.

September 28 2006: 4:41 PM EDT


WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The typical double-income family is worse off financially than ever, a study released Thursday said, warning that few Americans have saved enough to brace for financial setbacks.

Middle-class families are struggling to pay for a home, health insurance, transportation and their children's college with wages that have not kept pace with higher prices, according to the study by a think tank headed by a former top aide to President Bill Clinton.


The middle class's financial condition has been a key issue ahead of the November elections, as Democrats warn that this group is fast losing economic ground amid skyrocketing prices and tax cuts that offer them little benefit.

"In our estimates, it's becoming harder for families to afford what we consider a typical middle-class lifestyle," said economist Christian Weller of the Center for American Progress, the political think tank headed by John Podesta, a former Clinton chief of staff.

Weller cautioned that while Americans are taking on more debt to cover higher costs, wages have not kept pace.

The majority of Americans have not socked away enough money to brace for financial setbacks such as a job loss or a medical emergency.

According to the study, less than a third of all American families have accumulated income equaling three months of their wages. The trend is particularly pronounced among the 60 percent income distribution that makes up the middle class: those with dual incomes earning from $18,500 to $88,030 a year.

From 2001 to 2004, the proportion of middle-class families that has saved three months' worth of income dropped to 18.3 percent from 28.8 percent, the study said.

Higher prices for a range of things - including health care, energy, transportation, food and education - have put Americans in this position as corporate profits have risen, the study said.

It said, that five years into the current economic recovery, average job growth is one-fifth that of previous business cycles and wages are flat when inflation is factored into the equation.

To maintain day-to-day consumption, families have taken on a record amount of debt, equal to 126.4 percent of disposable income in the first quarter of 2006, according to the study.

Commenting on the study, SEIU Labor Union President Andy Stern said, "Of the total amount of our economy and income, we have the greatest share going to profits in modern history and the least amount going to wages in modern history."

"For most working Americans, things are far worse than any time certainly in recent history and at a time of an incredibly growing economy." said Stern, whose union represents 1.1 million health care workers.

interesting I see no mention of the fact that the country is loaded with over-indulgent people who are consistently over spending and trying to live beyond their means
 
EnderJE said:
Sure they do. Let's look at who contributes more to the company bottom line. Joe Nobody on the floor contributes X while 'Fat Cat' CEO contributes X*Y. Hence, CEO gets money.

Which is fine, but when does it become over the top?? And since you're an advocate for personal responsibility - corporations have a certain amount of responsibility as well to their employees as well as stockholders.....There should be a certain amount of ethics involved as well.....
 
Smurfy said:
interesting I see no mention of the fact that the country is loaded with over-indulgent people who are consistently over spending and trying to live beyond their means

I think we are related.
 
Smurfy said:
interesting I see no mention of the fact that the country is loaded with over-indulgent people who are consistently over spending and trying to live beyond their means
Hence, my statement about personal responsibility.
 
Huckster said:
It was nice knowin ya...


CNNMoney.com

Middle-class families in worse shape than ever, study finds

Typical families have not stashed enough money; struggling to pay for home, insurance, and education according to Center for American Progress.

September 28 2006: 4:41 PM EDT


WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The typical double-income family is worse off financially than ever, a study released Thursday said, warning that few Americans have saved enough to brace for financial setbacks.

Middle-class families are struggling to pay for a home, health insurance, transportation and their children's college with wages that have not kept pace with higher prices, according to the study by a think tank headed by a former top aide to President Bill Clinton.


The middle class's financial condition has been a key issue ahead of the November elections, as Democrats warn that this group is fast losing economic ground amid skyrocketing prices and tax cuts that offer them little benefit.

"In our estimates, it's becoming harder for families to afford what we consider a typical middle-class lifestyle," said economist Christian Weller of the Center for American Progress, the political think tank headed by John Podesta, a former Clinton chief of staff.

Weller cautioned that while Americans are taking on more debt to cover higher costs, wages have not kept pace.

The majority of Americans have not socked away enough money to brace for financial setbacks such as a job loss or a medical emergency.

According to the study, less than a third of all American families have accumulated income equaling three months of their wages. The trend is particularly pronounced among the 60 percent income distribution that makes up the middle class: those with dual incomes earning from $18,500 to $88,030 a year.

From 2001 to 2004, the proportion of middle-class families that has saved three months' worth of income dropped to 18.3 percent from 28.8 percent, the study said.

Higher prices for a range of things - including health care, energy, transportation, food and education - have put Americans in this position as corporate profits have risen, the study said.

It said, that five years into the current economic recovery, average job growth is one-fifth that of previous business cycles and wages are flat when inflation is factored into the equation.

To maintain day-to-day consumption, families have taken on a record amount of debt, equal to 126.4 percent of disposable income in the first quarter of 2006, according to the study.

Commenting on the study, SEIU Labor Union President Andy Stern said, "Of the total amount of our economy and income, we have the greatest share going to profits in modern history and the least amount going to wages in modern history."

"For most working Americans, things are far worse than any time certainly in recent history and at a time of an incredibly growing economy." said Stern, whose union represents 1.1 million health care workers.
well I agry with most of the coments I do not agry that the tax cuts made by bush do not help.fuck they help me big time.I get 10x as much back now and it allways helps me.
 
Smurfy said:
interesting I see no mention of the fact that the country is loaded with over-indulgent people who are consistently over spending and trying to live beyond their means

While that may be true, it is also becoming abuntantly clear that what was once considered 'indulgence' now more or less may be folks just wanting what was once somewhat obtainable before the ridiculously sky-rocketing costs of living and necessity (i.e. home ownership,fuel, energy). It's sad when 'indulgence' now includes just being able to afford a roof over ones own head.
 
jenscats5 said:
Which is fine, but when does it become over the top?? And since you're an advocate for personal responsibility - corporations have a certain amount of responsibility as well to their employees as well as stockholders.....There should be a certain amount of ethics involved as well.....
First, you should know that I'm a hypocrite. :D

Second, I don't quite believe in 'corporate ethics' as you've pointed it out. If a company decides to screw their employees and I hear about it, then it's my choice on whether or not to continue to do business with that company. If enough people exercise their personal responsibility, then they can impact the direction of the company. Note, this only works in a free market.
 
Huckster said:
While that may be true, it is also becoming abuntantly clear that what was once considered 'indulgence' now more or less may be folks just wanting what was once somewhat obtainable before the ridiculously sky-rocketing costs of living and necessity (i.e. home ownership,fuel, energy). It's sad when 'indulgence' now includes just being able to afford a roof over ones own head.
i disagree. when I use the word indulgence, I'm not referring to people trying to provide for a roof over their heads. true that the cost of living is ridiulous in a lot of areas, but there are many other forms of over indulgence and we all know this. fact is, people are making bad decisions over and over, and this cannot be overlooked.
 
Smurfy said:
i disagree. when I use the word indulgence, I'm not referring to people trying to provide for a roof over their heads. true that the cost of living is ridiulous in a lot of areas, but there are many other forms of over indulgence and we all know this. fact is, people are making bad decisions over and over, and this cannot be overlooked.


you bias doe not adress the SYSTEMIC changes Huck is talking about

personal responsility is moot juxtaposed against a sytem wide issue.....thats is getting worse.
 
OMEGA said:
you bias doe not adress the SYSTEMIC changes Huck is talking about

personal responsility is moot juxtaposed against a sytem wide issue.....thats is getting worse.
For example? I'm curious as I'm not clear as to what the systemic changes are...
 
Yup -- regulations, taxes and massive government are destroying the middle class as quickly as possible. The chance for "Joe Average" to experience the American dream is practically gone now.

It's easy to focus on things like taxation policy (i.e. soak the "rich") or on increasing minimum wage, but the real issue here is sustainable economic growth that creates demand for employees. When businesses boom, competition for talent goes up as well. As businesses compete, wages get better and benefits increase. We've gotten away from this basic Economics 101 principle and lied to ourselves about how taxation policy and other regulations could make it all better. Problem is, we've forgotten the fundamental problem that if businesses don't make the money, government can't tax and spend it away in the first place.
 
The U.S. is slowly becomming the new U.S.S.R., aside from all the internal slaughter. This started happening not that long after WWII actually. It's more apparent now though, and will continue to be as the years roll on if nothing changes.
 
Continued...

The New Face Of Class War
By Paul Craig Roberts
10-1-6


The attacks on middle-class jobs are lending new meaning to the phrase "class war". The ladders of upward mobility are being dismantled. America, the land of opportunity, is giving way to ever deepening polarization between rich and poor.

The assault on jobs predates the Bush regime. However, the loss of middle-class jobs has become particularly intense in the 21st century, and, like other pressing problems, has been ignored by President Bush, who is focused on waging war in the Middle East and building a police state at home. The lives and careers that are being lost to the carnage of a gratuitous war in Iraq are paralleled by the economic destruction of careers, families, and communities in the U.S.A. Since the days of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in the 1930s, the U.S. government has sought to protect employment of its citizens. Bush has turned his back on this responsibility. He has given his support to the offshoring of American jobs that is eroding the living standards of Americans. It is another example of his betrayal of the public trust.

"Free trade" and "globalization" are the guises behind which class war is being conducted against the middle class by both political parties. Patrick J. Buchanan, a three-time contender for the presidential nomination, put it well when he wrote1 that NAFTA and the various so-called trade agreements were never trade deals. The agreements were enabling acts that enabled U.S. corporations to dump their American workers, avoid Social Security taxes, health care and pensions, and move their factories offshore to locations where labor is cheap.

The offshore outsourcing of American jobs has nothing to do with free trade based on comparative advantage. Offshoring is labor arbitrage. First world capital and technology are not seeking comparative advantage at home in order to compete abroad. They are seeking absolute advantage abroad in cheap labor.

Two recent developments made possible the supremacy of absolute over comparative advantage: the high speed Internet and the collapse of world socialism, which opened China's and India's vast under-utilized labor resources to first world capital.

In times past, first world workers had nothing to fear from cheap labor abroad. Americans worked with superior capital, technology and business organization. This made Americans far more productive than Indians and Chinese, and, as it was not possible for U.S. firms to substitute cheaper foreign labor for U.S. labor, American jobs and living standards were not threatened by low wages abroad or by the products that these low wages produced.

The advent of offshoring has made it possible for U.S. firms using first world capital and technology to produce goods and services for the U.S. market with foreign labor. The result is to separate Americans' incomes from the production of the goods and services that they consume. This new development, often called "globalization," allows cheap foreign labor to work with the same capital, technology and business know-how as U.S. workers. The foreign workers are now as productive as Americans, with the difference being that the large excess supply of labor that overhangs labor markets in China and India keeps wages in these countries low. Labor that is equally productive but paid a fraction of the wage is a magnet for Western capital and technology.

Although a new development, offshoring is destroying entire industries, occupations and communities in the United States. The devastation of U.S. manufacturing employment was waved away with promises that a "new economy" based on high-tech knowledge jobs would take its place. Education and retraining were touted as the answer.

In testimony before the U.S.-China Commission,2 I explained that offshoring is the replacement of U.S. labor with foreign labor in U.S. production functions over a wide range of tradable goods and services. (Tradable goods and services are those that can be exported or that are competitive with imports. Nontradable goods and services are those that only have domestic markets and no import competition. For example, barbers and dentists offer nontradable services. Examples of nontradable goods are perishable, locally produced fruits and vegetables and specially fabricated parts of local machine shops.) As the production of most tradable goods and services can be moved offshore, there are no replacement occupations for which to train except in domestic "hands on" services such as barbers, manicurists, and hospital orderlies. No country benefits from trading its professional jobs, such as engineering, for domestic service jobs.

At a Brookings Institution conference in Washington, D.C., in January 2004, I predicted that if the pace of jobs outsourcing and occupational destruction continued, the U.S. would be a third world country in 20 years. Despite my regular updates on the poor performance of U.S. job growth in the 21st century, economists have insisted that offshoring is a manifestation of free trade and can only have positive benefits overall for Americans.

Reality has contradicted the glib economists. The new high-tech knowledge jobs are being outsourced abroad even faster than the old manufacturing jobs. Establishment economists are beginning to see the light. Writing in Foreign Affairs (March/April 2006), Princeton economist and former Federal Reserve vice chairman Alan Blinder concludes that economists who insist that offshore outsourcing is merely a routine extension of international trade are overlooking a major transformation with significant consequences. Blinder estimates that 42-56 million American service sector jobs are susceptible to offshore outsourcing.3 Whether all these jobs leave, U.S. salaries will be forced down by the willingness of foreigners to do the work for less.

Software engineers and information technology workers have been especially hard hit. Jobs offshoring, which began with call centers and back-office operations, is rapidly moving up the value chain. Business Week's Michael Mandel4 compared starting salaries in 2005 with those in 2001. He found a 12.7 per cent decline in computer science pay, a 12 per cent decline in computer engineering pay, and a 10.2 per cent decline in electrical engineering pay. Marketing salaries experienced a 6.5 per cent decline, and business administration salaries fell 5.7 per cent. Despite a make-work law for accountants known by the names of its congressional sponsors, Sarbanes-Oxley, even accounting majors, were offered 2.3 per cent less.

Using the same sources as the Business Week article (salary data from the National Association of Colleges and Employers and Bureau of Labor Statistics data for inflation adjustment), professor Norm Matloff at the University of California, Davis, made the same comparison for master's degree graduates. He found that between 2001 and 2005 starting pay for master's degrees in computer science, computer engineering, and electrical engineering fell 6.6 per cent, 13.7 per cent, and 9.4 per cent respectively.

On February 22, 2006, CNNMoney.com staff writer Shaheen Pasha5 reported that America's large financial institutions are moving "large portions of their investment banking operations abroad." Offshoring is now killing American jobs in research and analytic operations, foreign exchange trades, and highly complicated credit derivatives contracts. Deal-making responsibility itself may eventually move abroad. Deloitte Touche says that the financial services industry will move 20 per cent of its total costs base offshore by the end of 2010. As the costs are lower in India, the move will represent more than 20 per cent of the business. A job on Wall Street is a declining option for bright young persons with high stress tolerance as America's last remaining advantage is outsourced.

According to Norm Augustine, former CEO of Lockheed Martin, even McDonald jobs are on the way offshore. Augustine reports that McDonald is experimenting with replacing error-prone order takers with a system that transmits orders via satellite to a central location and from there to the person preparing the order. The technology lets the orders be taken in India or China at costs below the U.S. minimum wage and without the liabilities of U.S. employees.

American economists, some from incompetence and some from being bought and paid for, described globalization as a "win-win" development. It was supposed to work like this: The U.S. would lose market share in tradable manufactured goods and make up the job and economic loss with highly educated knowledge workers. The win for America would be lower-priced manufactured goods and a white-collar work force. The win for China would be manufacturing jobs that would bring economic development to that country.

It did not work out this way, as Morgan Stanley's Stephen Roach, formerly a cheerleader for globalization, recently admitted. It has become apparent that job creation and real wages in the developed economies are seriously lagging behind their historical norms as offshore outsourcing displaces the "new economy" jobs in "software programming, engineering, design, and the medical profession, as well as a broad array of professionals in the legal, accounting, actuarial, consulting, and financial services industries".6 The real state of the U.S. job market is revealed by a Chicago Sun-Times report on January 26, 2006, that 25,000 people applied for 325 jobs at a new Chicago Wal-Mart.

According to the BLS payroll jobs data,7 over the past half-decade (January 2001 - January 2006, the data series available at time of writing) the U.S. economy created 1,050,000 net new private sector jobs and 1,009,000 net new government jobs for a total five-year figure of 2,059,000. That is seven million jobs short of keeping up with population growth, definitely a serious job shortfall.

The BLS payroll jobs data contradict the hype from business organizations, such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, that offshore outsourcing is good for America. Large corporations, which have individually dismissed thousands of their U.S. employees and replaced them with foreigners, claim that jobs outsourcing allows them to save money that can be used to hire more Americans. The corporations and the business organizations are very successful in placing this disinformation in the media. The lie is repeated everywhere and has become a mantra among no-think economists and politicians. However, no sign of these jobs can be found in the payroll jobs data. But there is abundant evidence of the lost American jobs.

During the past five years (January 01 - January 06), the information sector of the U.S. economy lost 644,000 jobs, or 17.4 per cent of its work force. Computer systems design and related work lost 105,000 jobs, or 8.5 per cent of its work force. Clearly, jobs offshoring is not creating jobs in computers and information technology. Indeed, jobs offshoring is not even creating jobs in related fields.

U.S. manufacturing lost 2.9 million jobs, almost 17 per cent of the manufacturing work force. The wipeout is across the board. Not a single manufacturing payroll classification created a single new job.

The declines in some manufacturing sectors have more in common with a country undergoing saturation bombing during war than with a "supereconomy" that is "the envy of the world." In five years, communications equipment lost 42 per cent of its work force. Semiconductors and electronic components lost 37 per cent of its work force . The work force in computers and electronic products declined 30 per cent. Electrical equipment and appliances lost 25 per cent of its employees. The work force in motor vehicles and parts declined 12 per cent. Furniture and related products lost 17 per cent of its jobs. Apparel manufacturers lost almost half of the work force. Employment in textile mills declined 43 per cent. Paper and paper products lost one-fifth of its jobs. The work force in plastics and rubber products declined by 15 per cent.

For the five-year period, U.S. job growth was limited to four areas: education and health services, state and local government, leisure and hospitality, and financial services. There was no U.S. job growth outside these four areas of domestic nontradable services.

Oracle, for example, which has been handing out thousands of pink slips, has recently announced two thousand more jobs being moved to India.8 How is Oracle's move of U.S. jobs to India creating American jobs in nontradable services such as waitresses and bartenders, hospital orderlies, state and local government, and credit agencies?

Engineering jobs in general are in decline, because the manufacturing sectors that employ engineers are in decline. During the last five years, the U.S. work force lost 1.2 million jobs in the manufacture of machinery, computers, electronics, semiconductors, communication equipment, electrical equipment, motor vehicles, and transportation equipment. The BLS payroll jobs numbers show a total of 69,000 jobs created in all fields of architecture and engineering, including clerical personnel, over the past five years. That comes to a mere 14,000 jobs per year (including clerical workers). What is the annual graduating class in engineering and architecture? How is there a shortage of engineers when more graduate than can be employed?

Of course, many new graduates take jobs opened by retirements. We would have to know the retirement rates to get a solid handle on the fate of new graduates. But this fate cannot be very pleasant , with declining employment in the manufacturing sectors that employ engineers and a minimum of 65,000 H-1B work visas annually for foreigners plus an indeterminate number of L-1 work visas.

It is not only the Bush regime that bases its policies on lies. Not content with moving Americans' jobs abroad, corporations want to fill the jobs remaining in America with foreigners on work visas. Business organizations allege shortages of engineers, scientists and even nurses. Business organizations have successfully used pubic relations firms and bought-and-paid-for "economic studies" to convince policymakers that American business cannot function without H-1B visas that permit the importation of indentured employees from abroad who are paid less than the going U.S. salaries. The so-called shortage is, in fact, a replacement of American employees with foreign employees, with the soon-to-be-discharged American employee first required to train his replacement.

It is amazing to see free-market economists rush to the defense of H-1B visas. The visas are nothing but a subsidy to U.S. companies at the expense of U.S. citizens. Keep in mind this H-1B subsidy to U.S. corporations for employing foreign workers in place of Americans as we examine the Labor Department's job projections over the 2004-2014 decade.

All of the occupations with the largest projected employment growth (in terms of the number of jobs) over the next decade are in nontradable domestic services. The top ten sources of the most jobs in "superpower" America are: retail salespersons, registered nurses, postsecondary teachers, customer service representatives, janitors and cleaners, waiters and waitresses, food preparation (includes fast food), home health aides, nursing aides, orderlies and attendants, general and operations managers.9 Note than none of this projected employment growth will contribute one nickel toward producing goods and services that could be exported to help close the huge U.S. trade deficit. Note, also, that few of these job classifications require a college education.

Among the fastest growing occupations (in terms of rate of growth), seven of the ten are in health care and social assistance. The three remaining fields are: network systems and data analysis with 126,000 jobs projected, or 12,600 per year; computer software engineering applications with 222,000 jobs projected, or 22,200 per year; and computer software engineering systems software with 146,000 jobs projected, or 14,600 per year.10

Assuming these projections are realized, how many of the computer engineering and network systems jobs will go to Americans? Not many, considering the 65,000 H-1B visas each year (bills have been introduced in Congress to raise the number) and the loss during the past five years of 761,000 jobs in the information sector and computer systems design and related sectors.

Judging from its ten-year jobs projections, the U.S. Department of Labor does not expect to see any significant high-tech job growth in the U.S.The knowledge jobs are being outsourced even more rapidly than the manufacturing jobs. The so-called "new economy" was just another hoax perpetrated on the American people.

If outsourcing jobs offshore is good for U.S. employment, why won't the U.S. Department of Commerce release the 200-page, $335,000 study of the impact of the offshoring of U.S. high-tech jobs? Republican political appointees reduced the 200-page report to 12 pages of public relations hype and refuse to allow the Technology Administration experts who wrote the report to testify before Congress. Democrats on the House Science Committee are unable to pry the study out of the hands of Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez. On March 29, 2006, Republicans on the House Science Committee voted down a resolution (H.Res. designed to force the Commerce Department to release the study to Congress. Obviously, the facts don't fit the Bush regime's globalization hype.

The BLS payroll data that we have been examining tracks employment by industry classification. This is not the same thing as occupational classification. For example, companies in almost every industry and area of business employ people in computer-related occupations. A recent study from the Association for Computing Machinery claims, "Despite all the publicity in the United States about jobs being lost to India and China, the size of the IT employment market in the United States today is higher than it was at the height of the dot.com boom. Information technology appears as though it will be a growth area at least for the coming decade."

We can check this claim by turning to the BLS Occupational Employment Statistics.11 We will look at "computer and mathematical employment"12 and "architecture and engineering employment".13

Computer and mathematical employment includes such fields as "software engineers applications," "software engineers systems software," "computer programmers," "network systems and data communications," and "mathematicians." Has this occupation been a source of job growth? In November of 2000 this occupation employed 2,932,810 people.14 In November of 2004 (the latest data available), this occupation employed 2,932,790, or 20 people fewer. Employment in this field has been stagnant for four years.

During these four years, there have been employment shifts within the various fields of this occupation. For example, employment of computer programmers declined by 134,630, while employment of software engineers applications rose by 65,080, and employment of software engineers systems software rose by 59,600. (These shifts probably merely reflect change in job title from programmer to software engineer.)

These figures do not tell us whether any gain in software engineering jobs went to Americans. According to professor Norm Matloff, in 2002 there were 463,000 computer-related H-1B visa holders in the U.S. Similarly, the 134,630 lost computer programming jobs (if not merely a job title change) may have been outsourced offshore to foreign affiliates.

Architecture and engineering employment includes all the architecture and engineering fields except software engineering. The total employment of architects and engineers in the U.S. declined by 120,700 between November 1999 and November 2004. Employment declined by 189,940 between November 2000 and November 2004, and by 103,390 between November 2001 and November 2004.

There are variations among fields. Between November 2000 and November 2004, for example, U.S. employment of electrical engineers fell by 15,280. Employment of computer hardware engineers rose by 15,990 (possibly these are job title reclassifications). Overall, however, over 100,000 engineering jobs were lost. We do not know how many of the lost jobs were outsourced offshore to foreign affiliates or how many American engineers were dismissed and replaced by foreign holders of H-1B or L-1 visas.

Clearly, engineering and computer-related employment in the U.S.A. has not been growing, whether measured by industry or by occupation. Moreover, with a half million or more foreigners in the U.S. on work visas, the overall employment numbers do not represent employment of Americans.

American employees have been abandoned by American corporations and by their representatives in Congress. America remains a land of opportunity but for foreigners not for the native born. A country whose work force is concentrated in domestic nontradable services has no need for scientists and engineers and no need for universities. Even the projected jobs in nursing and school teaching can be filled by foreigners on H-1B visas.

The myth has been firmly established here that the jobs the U.S. is outsourcing offshore are being replaced with better jobs. There is no sign of these jobs in the payroll jobs data or in the occupational employment statistics. When a country loses entry-level jobs, it has no one to promote to senior level jobs. When manufacturing leaves, so does engineering, design, research and development, and innovation itself.

On February 16, 2006, the New York Times reported on a new study presented to the National Academies that concludes that outsourcing is climbing the skills ladder.15 A survey of 200 multinational corporations representing 15 industries in the U.S.and Europe found that 38 per cent planned to change substantially the worldwide distribution of their research and development work, sending it to India and China. According to the New York Times, "More companies in the survey said they planned to decrease research and development employment in the United States and Europe than planned to increase employment."

The study and the discussion it provoked came to untenable remedies. Many believe that a primary reason for the shift of R&D to India and China is the erosion of scientific prowess in the U.S. due to lack of math and science proficiency of American students and their reluctance to pursue careers in science and engineering. This belief begs the question why students would chase after careers that are being outsourced abroad.

The main author of the study, Georgia Tech professor Marie Thursby, believes that American science and engineering depend on having "an environment that fosters the development of a high-quality work force and productive collaboration between corporations and universities." The dean of Engineering at the University of California, Berkeley, thinks the answer is to recruit the top people in China and India and bring them to Berkeley. No one seems to understand that research, development, design, and innovation take place in countries where things are made. The loss of manufacturing means ultimately the loss of engineering and science. The newest plants embody the latest technology. If these plants are abroad, that is where the cutting edge resides.

The denial of jobs reality has become an art form for economists, libertarians, the Bush regime, and journalists. Except for CNN's Lou Dobbs, no accurate reporting is available in the "mainstream media."

Economists have failed to examine the incompatibility of offshoring with free trade. Economists are so accustomed to shouting down protectionists that they dismiss any complaint about globalization's impact on domestic jobs as the ignorant voice of a protectionist seeking to preserve the buggy whip industry. Matthew J. Slaughter, a Dartmouth economics professor rewarded for his service to offshoring with appointment to President Bush's Council of Economic Advisers, suffered no harm to his reputation when he wrote, "For every one job that U.S. multinationals created abroad in their foreign affiliates, they created nearly two U.S. jobs in their parent operations." In other words, Slaughter claims that offshoring is creating more American jobs than foreign ones.

How did Slaughter arrive at this conclusion? Not by consulting the BLS payroll jobs data or the BLS Occupational Employment Statistics. Instead, Slaughter measured the growth of U.S. multinational employment and failed to take into account the two reasons for the increase in multinational employment: (1) Multinationals acquired many existing smaller firms, thus raising multinational employment but not overall employment, and (2) many U.S. firms established foreign operations for the first time and thereby became multinationals, thus adding their existing employment to Slaughter's number for multinational employment.

ABC News' John Stossel, a libertarian hero, recently made a similar error. In debunking Lou Dobbs' concern with U.S. jobs lost to offshore outsourcing, Stossel invoked the California-based company, Collabnet. He quotes the CEO's claim that outsourcing saves his company money and lets him hire more Americans. Turning to Collabnet's webpage, it is very instructive to see the employment opportunities that the company posts for the United States and for India.

In India, Collabnet has openings (at time of writing) for eight engineers, a sales engineer, a technical writer, and a telemarketing representative. In the U.S. Collabnet has openings for one engineer, a receptionist/office assistant, and positions in marketing, sales, services and operations. Collabnet is a perfect example of what Lou Dobbs and I report: the engineering and design jobs move abroad, and Americans are employed to sell and market the foreign-made products.

Other forms of deception are widely practiced. For example, Matthew Spiegleman, a Conference Board economist, claims that manufacturing jobs are only slightly higher paid than domestic service jobs, so there is no meaningful loss in income to Americans from offshoring. He reaches this conclusion by comparing only hourly pay and leaving out the longer manufacturing workweek and the associated benefits, such as health care and pensions.

Occasionally, however, real information escapes the spin machine. In February 2006 the National Association of Manufacturers, one of offshoring's greatest boosters, released a report, "U.S. Manufacturing Innovation at Risk," by economists Joel Popkin and Kathryn Kobe.16 The economists find that U.S. industry's investment in research and development is not languishing after all. It just appears to be languishing, because it is rapidly being shifted overseas: "Funds provided for foreign-performed R&D have grown by almost 73 per cent between 1999 and 2003, with a 36 per cent increase in the number of firms funding foreign R&D."

U.S. industry is still investing in R&D after all; it is just not hiring Americans to do the research and development. U.S. manufacturers still make things, only less and less in America with American labor. U.S. manufacturers still hire engineers, only they are foreign ones, not American ones.

In other words, everything is fine for U.S. manufacturers. It is just their former American work force that is in the doldrums. As these Americans happen to be customers for U.S. manufacturers, U.S. brand names will gradually lose their U.S. market. U.S. household median income has fallen for the past five years. Consumer demand has been kept alive by consumers' spending their savings and home equity and going deeper into debt. It is not possible for debt to forever rise faster than income.

The United States is the first country in history to destroy the prospects and living standards of its labor force. It is amazing to watch freedom-loving libertarians and free-market economists serve as apologists for the dismantling of the ladders of upward mobility that made the America of old an opportunity society.

America is seeing a widening polarization into rich and poor. The resulting political instability and social strife will be terrible.
 
Pareto's Law. 20% of the population holds 80% of the wealth.

The most important lesson I learned when I was young is that there are ditch diggers and bosses telling the ditch diggers to dig faster. Fuck being a ditch digger.
 
jenscats5 said:
Which is fine, but when does it become over the top?? And since you're an advocate for personal responsibility - corporations have a certain amount of responsibility as well to their employees as well as stockholders.....There should be a certain amount of ethics involved as well.....

You think companies pay huge salary to their top CEO cause its fun ? Hell no, they'd rather pay them $10/hour if it was possible but problem is, no quality CEO would work for such a miserable wage. Offer and demand my dear. The same happens with NFL, NHL and MLB players. The market sets the rules, not the players.

Now what does your typical middle-class family look like ? Mid-late thirties, Big house, big pool, Chevy Suburban with DVD player inside, 2 kids. Now let's say these same folks had a decent condo, no big balla' pool, small car, one kid max (or even better no kid till their 40s so they can get higher in the food chain) dont you guys think their problems would go away ?
 
Middle-class families are struggling to pay for a home, health insurance, transportation and their children's college with wages that have not kept pace with higher prices, according to the study by a think tank headed by a former top aide to President Bill Clinton.

just think .. they could just claim to be illegal aliens and get all that shit for free and even a bus ride to Mexico for cheap RX drugs on the weekend!!!!
 
When I was a kid, a family could live a middle-class lifestyle with one income.
 
Mr. dB said:
When I was a kid, a family could live a middle-class lifestyle with one income.
"middle class lifestyle" has changed. how many people back in that day were buying brand NEW cars (every 2-3 yrs)? brand NEW homes? NEw technologies and name-brand products? there is an overwhelming amount of products and technologies thrust into the consumers' face in today's world, much much more than ever before, and people want it, and they want it now. Id venture to say that most people who are in over their heads are not so because they have spent their money wisely and simply could not afford what they needed, but instead because they made impulsive and poor decisions resulting in a financial situation they somehow cannot get out of. there's way too much out there to buy. add that to the admittedly outrageous increase in cost of living, and its a recipe for disaster.
 
Smurfy said:
"middle class lifestyle" has changed. how many people back in that day were buying brand NEW cars (every 2-3 yrs)? brand NEW homes? NEw technologies and name-brand products? there is an overwhelming amount of products and technologies thrust into the consumers' face in today's world, much much more than ever before, and people want it, and they want it now. Id venture to say that most people who are in over their heads are not so because they have spent their money wisely and simply could not afford what they needed, but instead because they made impulsive and poor decisions resulting in a financial situation they somehow cannot get out of. there's way too much out there to buy. add that to the admittedly outrageous increase in cost of living, and its a recipe for disaster.
in australia the average salary is about 650-700 bucks a week. the average mortgage will cost you about 2000 bucks a month for an average, 20 year old house (or older).

living a middle class lifestyle, even as it was 25 years ago, is only possible on a single average income if you pretty much never stop working, never get sick, dont have kids and live a very simple lifestyle - ie "work home work home work home movies home sex home sixpack home work home"

the upper class is handing the world to the developing nations for their own greed, at the cost of their poorer compatriots. its sickening.
 
mightymouse69 said:
Most are stupid fucks that bought homes too big to afford on one-salary and cars they couldn't afford...tough shit.

Amen!! A few years back my wife quit her six figure job to stay home and take care of the kids and we moved back to the sticks and I bought half of my uncle's practice. . .we sold our nice vinyl-sided city house for a nice profit and bought an even bigger brick house in a smallish town (believe the pop. right now is about 18,000) for $90K. ;) Also, we have new cars but they sure as hell aren't Escalades. My wife hasn't worked for 6 years now (we had another child right after our twins started kindergarten), I made about $100K last year, we've gone to the beach for two weeks straight every year that she's been off and we still manage to save money. We have a small house payment, one car payment and zero credit card payments (we use them but I pay them off every month). Living within your means is key. . .
 
Are they taking into account the quadzillion dollars of inheritence that is coming to these people? Not saying that is what one's "nest egg" should be but it does help a lot of families in need.

I know this hard working guy across the street. He doesn't have much, but one day I see a new car, a BOAT, two wave runners in his driveway. I asked him "Leroy, what the hell happened?" He said "My dad died, dude!"


Grandma's house is worth $600,000. Daddy's is worth $779,000 etc. but this is an "unexpected windfall". SOME people will be bailed out.
 
Smurfy said:
i disagree. when I use the word indulgence, I'm not referring to people trying to provide for a roof over their heads. true that the cost of living is ridiulous in a lot of areas, but there are many other forms of over indulgence and we all know this. fact is, people are making bad decisions over and over, and this cannot be overlooked.

Nonsense. A 52" plasma screen and dolby surround and 152-channel digital cable are necessities of life when you're raising kids. And you don't expect me to drive them to school in some little economy car do you? We NEED a Yukon Denali. And you don't expect me to go to work in an off-the-rack suit do you? I'd be the laughing stock of the office.

Never mind that the kids will have to go to public school, and a state university, they're enjoying the swimming pool today.
 
Mr. dB said:
Nonsense. A 52" plasma screen and dolby surround and 152-channel digital cable are necessities of life when you're raising kids. And you don't expect me to drive them to school in some little economy car do you? We NEED a Yukon Denali. And you don't expect me to go to work in an off-the-rack suit do you? I'd be the laughing stock of the office.

Never mind that the kids will have to go to public school, and a state university, they're enjoying the swimming pool today.
um. i went to a public school and a state university.

but thanks, deebs. ill take it as a compliment ;)
 
This is something us folks in la, where people go bankrupt paying their mortgages, have known for years.

15 million people. 1 million homes. Majority live in lower income class. Welcome to the new america.

If you strip out hispanics and blacks - the middle class for whites hasn't changed too much. But they have way more debt now.

r
 
GoldenDelicious said:
um. i went to a public school and a state university.

but thanks, deebs. ill take it as a compliment ;)

So did I.

Those were still viable options 30 years ago.

And you're in a different country, where maybe the education system hasn't been allowed to disintegrate quite as badly as ours has.

Here, middle class white kids are either sent to private school, or else the family moves to a small suburban "bedroom community" town to get away from the city public school system. i.e. get their kids away from those pesky negroes. In areas where blacks are 12-20% of the population, black students make up 50-90% of the public school enrollees. It's a self-perpetuating problem.
 
All they seem to know how to do around here is raise rates/taxes.

The city near went bankrupt a couple years ago so what did they do? yep raise rates on EVERYTHING.

I guess that is the solution for incompetent government.
 
Everybody wants to live the 'Gangsta' lifestyle with the Garbage man's salary.

Nowadays it can be done..... with credit. Lots and lots of credit..... until you can't anymore.
 
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