Bruce Lee - Overly hyped?

[Anthrax Invasion]

I'm not very informed when it comes to martial artists, but whenever something comes up among people, I hear Bruce Lee touted as being God-like. How good was he, really? How good would he be today if he were around? 'cause from what I understood, he mixed arts which wasn't too common back in the day. These days, though, I think Bruce would be a mediocre fighter at best, as every guy mixes styles (thus MMA) and there's a lot more we've learned to this day.

I hear so many tall tales, things like according to a MA institute (don't even know what the fuck the douche bag menat by this) he had the "perfect kick" that could break any bone in your body, shattering a person's jaw, etc.

What's true, what's not? How good was he?

 

[MikeMartial]

We'll never truely know. What we do know, is that:

1) His skill level was elite. This was obvious.

2) His conditioning was excellent, and his knowledge of conditioning was far ahead of his time.

3) His concept of Jeet Kune Do was essentially the first MMA concept---once again, far ahead of his time. Take what works, use it, discard the rest.

Now, the big question: How would he fair today? IMO, put him into his weight class in a MMA match, and I think he'd do damn fine. He was a striking martial artist as a kid (the stories of his youth in the backstreets on China are more than likey massively embelished, but he did start training early), and incorporated grappling later on. Not unlike most MMA athletes, hmm?

I think any martial artist that falls into the "legend" catagory is subject to hype. It's just the way it is, and the way fans want to remember their legend.

 

[Djimbe]

oh shit , here we go ....

No .

Bruce Lee had about 20 Months of MA Training and a LOT of Hustler/Actor in him . He won NO Fights of Consequence in his lifetime and only got in a single fight as an adult , and after lying and claiming to have beaten his opponent to a pulp ran from a Public Rematch , and never again Fought anyone as an Adult in his lifetime .

He READ a lot about MA , and Practiced a lot in his Back Yard . His Ideas about Conditioning were ABYSMAL , and included concepts like "Total Weight Lifted Equality" - in other words lifting 10 lbs 10 times = lifting 100 lbs once . The reason he LOOKED so "Ripped" was that he had an Undescended Testicle , and basically took a LOT of Diuretics and Steroids , neither of wich were Taboo at the time . He Overtrained to the point of physical peril , and his cardio workouts and mile times were FAR less than that of the average MT Fighter or Kickboxer even of his time , much less ours .

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Have any factual proof of that, djimbe?

 

[ass_face]

oh shit , here we go ....

No .

Bruce Lee had about 20 Months of MA Training and a LOT of Hustler/Actor in him . He won NO Fights of Consequence in his lifetime and only got in a single fight as an adult , and after lying and claiming to have beaten his opponent to a pulp ran from a Public Rematch , and never again Fought anyone as an Adult in his lifetime .

He READ a lot about MA , and Practiced a lot in his Back Yard . His Ideas about Conditioning were ABYSMAL , and included concepts like "Total Weight Lifted Equality" - in other words lifting 10 lbs 10 times = lifting 100 lbs once . The reason he LOOKED so "Ripped" was that he had an Undescended Testicle , and basically took a LOT of Diuretics and Steroids , neither of wich were Taboo at the time . He Overtrained to the point of physical peril , and his cardio workouts and mile times were FAR less than that of the average MT Fighter or Kickboxer even of his time , much less ours .

Wow... I think I could have destroyed Bruce Lee now...

 

[1392477]

His concept of Jeet Kune Do was essentially the first MMA concept---once again, far ahead of his time. Take what works, use it, discard the rest.

Absolutle correct.

Now, the big question: How would he fair today? IMO, put him into his weight class in a MMA match, and I think he'd do damn fine.

Not so convinced on this one, we have come a long way in strength training and conditioning. Todays fighters are much stronger and better conditioned than previous generations.

 

[Djimbe]

Have any factual proof of that, djimbe?

of wich ? I cant show you PROOF that Lee never Fought , you cant PROVE that somethign never happened , but please find evidence of a Fight as an adult had by the man ? I mean , the guy was one of the most famous ppl on the PLANET and you cant find a Poliece report , any Arrest Record , Videotapes , Pictures , film - NOTHING .

Here is Master Mark saying some of the same things in an Interview .

http://members.aol.com/martyeisen/mantis/Lee.htm

 

[Djimbe]

His concept of Jeet Kune Do was essentially the first MMA concept---once again, far ahead of his time. Take what works, use it, discard the rest.

Absolutle correct.

Actually , no .

Bruce didnt come up with anything of the Sort . Dong Haichuan was "Mixing Martial Arts" a hundered years b4 Bruce was even born , in fact ALL Bagua tought by him was ONLY taught to a Master of another system .

The System Preying Mantis uses Monkey Footwork .

Wing Chun is a Hodgepodge of Systems taught in the Shaolin tradition .

Hun Gar is a mixture of Tiger and Crane ...

The Chinese have been "Taking WHats Useful And Abandoning The Rest for CENTURIES . In fact , that quote itself is a Ripoff from one of chinas great Philosophers , Chuang Tzu .

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

of wich ? I cant show you PROOF that Lee never Fought , you cant PROVE that somethign never happened , but please find evidence of a Fight as an adult had by the man ? I mean , the guy was one of the most famous ppl on the PLANET and you cant find a Poliece report , any Arrest Record , Videotapes , Pictures , film - NOTHING .

Here is Master Mark saying some of the same things in an Interview .

http://members.aol.com/martyeisen/mantis/Lee.htm

Good stuff. I didn't doubt you, as you seem to know your shit when it comes to the arts - I just wanted to know if there was anything I could shove in people's faces when they just go "Oh, you're into MMA? BRUCE LEE!"

 

[Kane Fan]

why would having a messed up testicle give you a ripped look?

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

why would having a messed up testicle give you a ripped look?

Testicles are a powerful tool, my friend.

 

[MikeMartial]

Actually , no .

Bruce didnt come up with anything of the Sort . Dong Haichuan was "Mixing Martial Arts" a hundered years b4 Bruce was even born , in fact ALL Bagua tought by him was ONLY taught to a Master of another system .

The System Preying Mantis uses Monkey Footwork .

Wing Chun is a Hodgepodge of Systems taught in the Shaolin tradition .

Hun Gar is a mixture of Tiger and Crane ...

The Chinese have been "Taking WHats Useful And Abandoning The Rest for CENTURIES . In fact , that quote itself is a Ripoff from one of chinas great Philosophers , Chuang Tzu .

Hey, this is making me wonder.....why are there no CMA in MMA today, then?
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Sorry, Djimbe, I couldn't resist!

 

[Djimbe]

why would having a messed up testicle give you a ripped look?

Less ability to pack on "Manly Muscle" and put on Density ... 50% of the Test of a normal male , without the Estrogen of a Female to add that womanly Padding of Fat to the mix . basically made him into the Ultimate Hardgainer or a SuperEctomorph , dependng on how you want to look at it . Nevertheless , he wasnt turning into Franco Colombu any time soon , no matter WHAT he did in the Gym .

 

[Djimbe]

*Swots Mike*

 

[Djimbe]

Good stuff. I didn't doubt you, as you seem to know your shit when it comes to the arts - I just wanted to know if there was anything I could shove in people's faces when they just go "Oh, you're into MMA? BRUCE LEE!"

Well , other Lee Crap ...

He used to charge in Excess of $500 an HOUR for lessons ... From a second year Student .

The claim that he was the only Chinese that would Teach non chinese is utter horepuckey . Where do you think Karate/TKD COMES from ? Its CHUAN FA ! Aikido is a Mixture of the Defensive parts of Baguazhang and Taijiquan , and anyone versed in those arts can clearly see it plain as day , damn what the Japanese Nationalists say . My Father studied CMA in the 60s , the fact is that Wang Shu Chin was teaching freely anyone that approached him at that time and was even demonstrating his Techniques on Television for the world to see ! He allowed Kyokushin/Judo BB John Blumbing to Break his Wrist on him in his OPEN challenge to ANYONE to strike him ANYWHERE below the neck !

John Blumbing was Mixing Kyokushin and Judo IN THE SIXTIES ! MMA is nothing new , in Fact President Roosevelt was a Wrestler and a Boxer !

Oh , and about that "Dragon" movie ... oy vey ~
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106770/goofs

 

[Kane Fan]

awsome Teddy could kick ass

 

[novamanms]

Less ability to pack on "Manly Muscle" and put on Density ... 50% of the Test of a normal male , without the Estrogen of a Female to add that womanly Padding of Fat to the mix . basically made him into the Ultimate Hardgainer or a SuperEctomorph , dependng on how you want to look at it . Nevertheless , he wasnt turning into Franco Colombu any time soon , no matter WHAT he did in the Gym .

Now I just need a 3rd ball.

 

[Djimbe]

you could hook up with that 3 tit hooker from "Total Recall" !

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

you could hook up with that 3 tit hooker from "Total Recall" !

Uh, djimbe? You don't fuck tits with balls.

 

[KD1]

Ever see that scene in Enter the Dragon where he submitted that guy by arm-bar? Sometimes its edited out.

I think Bruce Lee was an awsome actor/athlete. As far as his real world fighting skills, we have no evidence either way.

As Eddie Murphy said "Put me in a movie with you and Ill kick your ass!".

 

[Djimbe]

Uh, djimbe? You don't fuck tits with balls.

Mebbe YOU dont ... depends on how big your balls ARE !

sides , its just so they can Match at the Freak Ball .

 

[coldblue1955]

I'm not very informed when it comes to martial artists, but whenever something comes up among people, I hear Bruce Lee touted as being God-like. How good was he, really? How good would he be today if he were around? 'cause from what I understood, he mixed arts which wasn't too common back in the day. These days, though, I think Bruce would be a mediocre fighter at best, as every guy mixes styles (thus MMA) and there's a lot more we've learned to this day.

I hear so many tall tales, things like according to a MA institute (don't even know what the fuck the douche bag menat by this) he had the "perfect kick" that could break any bone in your body, shattering a person's jaw, etc.

What's true, what's not? How good was he?

He was good don't get me wrong but Jet Li is just as good!

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Now Jackie Chan is where it's at.

 

[Djimbe]

umm , Guys , Jackie and Jet have forgotten more about Martial Arts than Bruce Lee ever knew . IF you ever get the chance read the book about how Jackie Chan grew up - itl open your eyes to some SERIOUS training .

Even just as a Film Fan , if you look at Jackies OLD Films , like the first 10-15 that he did , you can see his Traditional Skills and Training , and how much Hard Work and Dedication he put into it . He definately studied and Trained very hard to get where he is .

Jet WAS the champ in china till he retired . Everyone else competed for second place , PERIOD . and if Fighting payed more than Films then thats where he would be today , but you know how that goes ...

 

[Wazzzzzzzup89]

umm , Guys , Jackie and Jet have forgotten more about Martial Arts than Bruce Lee ever knew . IF you ever get the chance read the book about how Jackie Chan grew up - itl open your eyes to some SERIOUS training .

Even just as a Film Fan , if you look at Jackies OLD Films , like the first 10-15 that he did , you can see his Traditional Skills and Training , and how much Hard Work and Dedication he put into it . He definately studied and Trained very hard to get where he is .

Jet WAS the champ in china till he retired . Everyone else competed for second place , PERIOD . and if Fighting payed more than Films then thats where he would be today , but you know how that goes ...

Yeah I remember seeing something about when Jackie was a kid he had to stay in the pushup position while someone beat the shit out of him with a stick. (That is jackie im thinking of correct?)

 

[Djimbe]

YUP ! Stuff like Forced Splits , etc was all very common .

 

[JumpBallWinner]

I'm a big Jet Li fan, but did he actually do any fighting or did he just compete in Wushu displays? I read his bio back in highschool when I first got interested in him and never found anything about him actually fighting. If someone has some info about him fighting or a link to some, I'd appreciate it.

 

[al420]

I'm not sure about Jet Li but if I ever get in a fight w/ a chinese midget and he starts runnig up walls and doing matrix type shit I am going to hold my ground - not sure how real he is - not sure at all.

 

[jhc]

of wich ? I cant show you PROOF that Lee never Fought , you cant PROVE that somethign never happened , but please find evidence of a Fight as an adult had by the man ? I mean , the guy was one of the most famous ppl on the PLANET and you cant find a Poliece report , any Arrest Record , Videotapes , Pictures , film - NOTHING .

Here is Master Mark saying some of the same things in an Interview .

http://members.aol.com/martyeisen/mantis/Lee.htm

I can't find anything even remotely negative about Bruce Lee in this article. Master Mark is completely respectful in everything that he says. You could even say that he speaks highly of Bruce:

"ME: How long did Bruce Lee train with you?

GFM: About a month. He learned much more than the average person could in that short time, because he was in good condition and had learned similar techniques in other systems that he had studied. Besides that, he was enthusiastic, practiced a lot and had an outstanding aptitude for Kung Fu. Bruce was really impressed by my philosophy of fighting."

 

[Djimbe]

I'm not sure about Jet Li but if I ever get in a fight w/ a chinese midget and he starts runnig up walls and doing matrix type shit I am going to hold my ground - not sure how real he is - not sure at all.

Dude , we all know that the WWE is fake , but Kurt Angle is a REAL Wrestler doing a show for money . Hell , Sakuraba was a Kayfabe wrestler and a Jobber for YEARS before he went into Pride .

No Jets not going to run up any walls any time soon in a Fistfight . Hes so nice I cant believe anyone would ever have any reason to HIT the guy anyway . Films are his JOB , not his Training . There are a WHOLE lot of Martial Artists out there that make hteir Scratch as Doctors or Lawyers , or whatever . He just happens to make his acting .

Pay is better than Fighting .

 

[Djimbe]

I can't find anything even remotely negative about Bruce Lee in this article. Master Mark is completely respectful in everything that he says. You could even say that he speaks highly of Bruce:

"ME: How long did Bruce Lee train with you?

GFM: About a month. He learned much more than the average person could in that short time, because he was in good condition and had learned similar techniques in other systems that he had studied. Besides that, he was enthusiastic, practiced a lot and had an outstanding aptitude for Kung Fu. Bruce was really impressed by my philosophy of fighting."

Yes , Master Mark is a Polite old man , and Im a Blunt young one . but the content of his speech isnt any different than anything that Ive said . He just says it in a more Positive Tone , thats all .

 

[jhc]

Yes , Master Mark is a Polite old man , and Im a Blunt young one . but the content of his speech isnt any different than anything that Ive said . He just says it in a more Positive Tone , thats all .

Sorry, but I really don't get that impression from the article at all. I think you're seeing what you want to see.

 

[MikeMartial]

Sorry, but I really don't get that impression from the article at all. I think you're seeing what you want to see.

I'd have to agree; I read, and re-read the article. While Master Mark and Bruce seems to have different views on various subjects, I can find no negativity towards Bruce as a martial artist. Like Jhc said, he even speaks highly of him.

Interesting interview, nonetheless.

 

[Djimbe]

*sigh* and Im not being "Negative" to the TRUTH of what bruce was , either , THAT is my point . He was a Talented beginner that had a LOT of wasted Potential . The FACTS in the article that are Pertinent is the fact that even though he was supposedly pout there creating his own "Super Style" at the time he couldnt beat an 11 month student from a REAL Teacher of a REAL system that was put togehter and well Integrated by ppl that know what theyre doing . Even though he had actually had TWICE as much training time under a teacher considered of Equal , if not GREATER Talents than Sifu Mark .

ME: Was Bruce Lee impressed watching your students practice?

GFM: I don't think so. Not many people have seen or understand this rare system. The power in the techniques is hidden. Bruce remarked on the similarity between Praying Mantis and Wing Chun. He wanted to have a match with one of my students, to which I readily agreed.

ME: What happened?

GFM: Neither Bruce nor my student could gain an advantage; it was a draw. Bruce asked me how long the student had studied. I replied about a year. Then, I demonstrated some advanced techniques and weapons. I asked him if he would like to try my hands. He declined, out of respect, and said he was interested in studying with me.

The article CLEARLY Points out that Bruce's LEVEL is that of a First Year Student , NOT that of a "Master" that should be Inventing his own system .

You guys are focused too much on weather you think I "Like" or "Dislike" Bruce Lee as a person - I never even met the guy - I dislike the LIES about what he was as a Martial Artist , and THAT is what Im being Negative about . I know Master Mark as a real , Breathing Human Being , so OF COURSE the way that I speak of HIM is going to be coloured by the Fact that hes a Charming , Impish little Devil with a magnetic Personality . With Bruce , I cant be Swayed by his Personality or Charm , Ive never Experienced either thing from him . All I know is that AS A MARTIAL ARTIST he was NOT "All That And A Bag Of Chips" , so to Speak . I mean , for Christ sake if I told MOST of the MMA guys on this board that they would be in a Match with a 1st year Praying Mantis student they would laugh out lout and thank me for the Tomato can ! But sayu "BROOSE WEEE !!!" and somehow that makes the 1st year Praying Mantis Student level somethign Godly ?

THINK IT THROUGH .

 

[CrazyK]

djimbe, quit pulling articles out of your ass and posting them as fact. Anyone can write an article saying they beat up this guy or tied this guy. It doesn't CLEARLY point out anything except that some fag somewhere made up a lie about tieing Bruce Lee in an attempt to gain respect.

Obviously you are supremely bias towards kung fu, all those years of training that you did with it only to realize that it is garbage. I went and tried the praying mantis kung fu style you pointed me too, and that was the biggest waste of time I've ever encountered. I was learning how to focus my inner chi, and get in to a "combat stance" that just asks to get my shin broken by a thai kick, or get taken down by a single leg.

 

[Djimbe]

wow , dude , you certainly live up to your Username .

So , you went to ONE lesson , decided you knew how the entire system worked together Integratedly , and decided you could beat everyone in the room with a "Thai Kick" - even though theres no such THING as a "Thai Kick" theres Roundhouse kicks , and pretty much everyone does them the same way . Did you Spar with any of the ppl there , or did you just let your Bias run you out the door before putting your ass where your mouth is ? Did you TRY to Single Leg the instructor or one of the Senior students ? Did you actually Run Drills on these Halfassed assumptions of yours ? I mean , You know I can just call and Find out , right ? And before you spout crap out of your mouth again about MY "Kung Fu" Being worthless , I have an Open Door Policy , my man , and youre welcome to come out any day and try to Roundhouse or Single Leg me to Death at your Leisure ... and you can not only find out how we deal with those Techniques , but what "Kung Fu" , as you put it , is "Worth" .

As far as your First Paragraph goes , well , Bruce acknowledged his timew with Master Mark publicly on several Occasions . Do your Resaearch b4 you accuse ppl of "Pulling Stuff Out Of Their Asses" ESPECIALLY when your Posting REEKS of doing JUST that yourself .

You are , in short , a Biased Fanboi that has NO Idea of what it is you are denegrating .

 

[CrazyK]

First of all I took about 3 weeks of the stuff before I let go of it. I was really trying to find a reason for doing what they were doing and just could not find a meaning to the madness. There was no sparring involved in the class, so none was to be found. Far too common with most CMA because Kung Fu is for the street and is too d3ad7y to spar with *lol*

Just because he acknowledged training with Burce does not mean that Bruce tied a first year student, or that you are not pulling that out of your ass, or he isn't pulling it out of his. I trained in Royce Gracies gym one time in Torrance, CA. I then claim that I tied Royce Gracie when I rolled with him, and because I trained with him that makes my statement 100% fact.*lol*

Please use logic before spewing this newbie kung fu BS again.

 

[Djimbe]

First of all I took about 3 weeks of the stuff before I let go of it. I was really trying to find a reason for doing what they were doing and just could not find a meaning to the madness. There was no sparring involved in the class, so none was to be found. Far too common with most CMA because Kung Fu is for the street and is too d3ad7y to spar with *lol*

Well , good to know , So what yorue saying is that the place went McDojo , and they dont Spar there any more . I wont Reccomend it again if that is the case . You see THAT is actual COMMUNICATION and presents someone with a real greviance that can be dealt with . You see , thats why I made RECCOMENDATIONS , and MORE THAN ONE - you should be able to find out if they spar , etc , and come back and say "Hey Djimbe , they went McDojo , aheres what happened when I went there ..." in the stead of acting like an ASS . Im sorry that you had that experience , but you should have said something earlier , and probably a bit more Politely . And again , if you think I/mine cant spar , youre always welcome .

Just because he acknowledged training with Burce does not mean that Bruce tied a first year student, or that you are not pulling that out of your ass, or he isn't pulling it out of his. I trained in Royce Gracies gym one time in Torrance, CA. I then claim that I tied Royce Gracie when I rolled with him, and because I trained with him that makes my statement 100% fact.*lol*

Please use logic before spewing this newbie kung fu BS again.

Your Illogic is worse than what you accuse me of . Youre flailing about with the Accusation that someone VERY well Respected in the MA community is a Liar and has need to Make up stories about a Newbie . Judo Gene LeBelle talks about Carrying Bruce about the Set of a Film like a baby over his shoulder all the while Bruce was threatening to kill him . Is HE lying ? No ? Why , because HE does JUDO and Mark does Praying Mantis ?

Your predjudices expose you too easily .

 

[CrazyK]

No they both are lieing or exaggeratting most likely. Just because you are respected in your little hole in the wall doesn't mean they wouldn't make up a lie to gain respect from others. Hitler was also a very respected man at one time.

 

[Djimbe]

okay , thats like one of the Cardinal Rules of the Internet . The second you compare ANYONE to HITLER you lose all credibility in your argument .

 

[CrazyK]

Same thing with Bruce Lee.

 

[ItalianMuscle27]

He was the best..

 

[Djimbe]

at what ? And by what measure ?

 

[Djimbe]

Same thing with Bruce Lee.

Who compared Bruce to Hitler ?

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

He mentioned Hitler - so? His point was that you can be a respected person, but you're still capable of lying through your teeth to get what you want.

 

[CrazyK]

Who compared Bruce to Hitler ?

I meant you can't compare anyone to Bruce Lee, he was ahead of his time.

 

[draxxius]

I see everyone is talking about bruce's fighting skills and strength...


I have read from quite a few good sources, which quote bruce's few and close friends, about his feats of strength and speed.

He could, according to these friends, pick up a 70 pound dumbbell and roll it over his forearms and lift it laterally, and hold it there for a good few seconds. this was all done slowly. He could also do push ups with 250 pounds on his back.


He would demolish punching bags. His had to be made extra heavy.

He could jump 8 feet high. And I have seen from his movies that he is a very good acrobat, and very fast.

He has been measured with a device that measured his punching speed. hundredths of a second. very fast.


Maybe he has not been in many real fights, but I would assume that he has practiced in some pretty vicious fake fights among some pretty good fighters.

I would not say he overtrained to the point of physical peril. According to the majority of sources, he trained 3 times a week and ate a lot.

He did not train for mass, but for power. His famous "one inch punch" where he could punch a man 15 feet, was his power. He was more focused on strengthening the tendons and ligaments, I believe.

In my opinion, I do not think the numerous MMA fighters today would be able to compete against bruce very well. They all appear very slow and sluggish, their strikes almost meaningless. Just slapping around until they can grab and hold each other in a lock forever. Bruce had amazing speed, and explosive power. The MMA are slow, and I see so many areas where they could be attacked, but the other fighter is just as slow and cumbersome....

 

[MikeMartial]

In my opinion, I do not think the numerous MMA fighters today would be able to compete against bruce very well. They all appear very slow and sluggish, their strikes almost meaningless. Just slapping around until they can grab and hold each other in a lock forever. Bruce had amazing speed, and explosive power. The MMA are slow, and I see so many areas where they could be attacked, but the other fighter is just as slow and cumbersome....

You are quite obviously ignorant and niave when it comes to MMA; this is extremely apparent by your comments.

And while I'm a huge Bruce Lee fan myself, your comments really did nothing to prove his worth as an actual fighter. Watching Spike TV reruns of old Bruce Lee flicks on Saturday afternoon does not make one an authority on his fighting ability. If you are going to post comments like yours, back them up. Anecdotal reports of "punching a guy 15 feet" do more harm then good.

Oh, and welcome to EF. Better luck with your second post.

 

[draxxius]

Thanks for the welcome.

I am ignorant about MMA. I am speaking only of what I see on UFC's reality show. I assume the majority correlate MMA with this. If there is a strong difference between UFC and other MMA, please inform me.

I am not trying to be an authority on him, I am just trying to give information that hasn't been given.

I just see a strong bias against bruce lee on this forum, and wanted to give a different view.

What is an "actual" fighter? I am simply stating that his feats in his movies, which are good proof, and sufficient I must say, show, to a good degree, of how he would fare in a fight. The testimonials from his friends seem strong proof as well, although the 15 feet punch may have been exagerrated. I have never seen a Bruce Lee movie on spike, hah. I rented the DVD's and studied them.

I will post my sources very soon.

 

[jeepboi]

Bruce Lee Kicked ass!

You wann know why?

Because he was chinese.

okay just wanted to get in on this argument, other then that i have no factual evidence stating he kicked ass except Movies, Magazine, cartoons, and action figures.

but I do have proof that he was more attractive then Jet Li OR Jackie Chan.

 

[Saiyagin]

*sigh* and Im not being "Negative" to the TRUTH of what bruce was , either , THAT is my point . He was a Talented beginner that had a LOT of wasted Potential . The FACTS in the article that are Pertinent is the fact that even though he was supposedly pout there creating his own "Super Style" at the time he couldnt beat an 11 month student from a REAL Teacher of a REAL system that was put togehter and well Integrated by ppl that know what theyre doing . Even though he had actually had TWICE as much training time under a teacher considered of Equal , if not GREATER Talents than Sifu Mark .

ME: Was Bruce Lee impressed watching your students practice?

GFM: I don't think so. Not many people have seen or understand this rare system. The power in the techniques is hidden. Bruce remarked on the similarity between Praying Mantis and Wing Chun. He wanted to have a match with one of my students, to which I readily agreed.

ME: What happened?

GFM: Neither Bruce nor my student could gain an advantage; it was a draw. Bruce asked me how long the student had studied. I replied about a year. Then, I demonstrated some advanced techniques and weapons. I asked him if he would like to try my hands. He declined, out of respect, and said he was interested in studying with me.

The article CLEARLY Points out that Bruce's LEVEL is that of a First Year Student , NOT that of a "Master" that should be Inventing his own system .

You guys are focused too much on weather you think I "Like" or "Dislike" Bruce Lee as a person - I never even met the guy - I dislike the LIES about what he was as a Martial Artist , and THAT is what Im being Negative about . I know Master Mark as a real , Breathing Human Being , so OF COURSE the way that I speak of HIM is going to be coloured by the Fact that hes a Charming , Impish little Devil with a magnetic Personality . With Bruce , I cant be Swayed by his Personality or Charm , Ive never Experienced either thing from him . All I know is that AS A MARTIAL ARTIST he was NOT "All That And A Bag Of Chips" , so to Speak . I mean , for Christ sake if I told MOST of the MMA guys on this board that they would be in a Match with a 1st year Praying Mantis student they would laugh out lout and thank me for the Tomato can ! But sayu "BROOSE WEEE !!!" and somehow that makes the 1st year Praying Mantis Student level somethign Godly ?

THINK IT THROUGH .

It also said at that time Bruce was only around 18 and still learning and didnt develope his JKD system untill long after. The reality is none of us would know the real truth unless we actually fought Bruce Lee in his prime. Was he really that good maybe not but he was good enough to establish himself as one of the most respected martial arts figures of modern times and to help break cultural bonds and I feel his legacy will live on forever in martial arts history.

 

[MikeMartial]

he was good enough to establish himself as one of the most respected martial arts figures of modern times and to help break cultural bonds and I feel his legacy will live on forever in martial arts history.

Thank you! That's about the best thing anyone has said on either side. If I was a mod I'd lock this thread right now and end it on that perfect note.

 

[Djimbe]

Thank you! That's about the best thing anyone has said on either side. If I was a mod I'd lock this thread right now and end it on that perfect note.

Exept that its a LIE .

Bruce didnt , beyond the obvious of putting an Asian Face - his own - on screen do ANYTHING to "Break Cultural Bonds" . In fact , he spent most of his time Exacerbating them and making MOST whites THINK that Chinese are Generally more racist than they are so that HE could look like some kind of "Revoloutionary" for "Breaking Barriers" .

Wich did what ? Lead to more GENERAL Distrust of Chinese , and lless SPECIFIC Distrust of 'Our Hero' .

 

[Djimbe]

It also said at that time Bruce was only around 18 and still learning and didnt develope his JKD system untill long after.

Without ANY FURTHUR TEUTELAGE IN HIS LIFETIME .

"Later" means nothing if you dont learn anything in the Meantime . He had no other teachers in the Interim .

The reality is none of us would know the real truth unless we actually fought Bruce Lee in his prime.

Wich he KNEW , and its why he specifically avoided being caught fighting - or even seriously Sparring - in his lifetime .

Was he really that good maybe not but he was good enough to establish himself as one of the most respected martial arts figures of modern times

That only makes him "Good" at Propaganda and PR . NOT MA .

 

[Djimbe]

but I do have proof that he was more attractive then Jet Li OR Jackie Chan.

See "Fearless Hyena" Jackie was WAY more Ripped than Bruce ever was in that one .

They both still TOTALLY lose to Meng Lo (Toad from "5 Deadly Venoms") though as "Kung Fu Look" PosterBoy .

 

[Saiyagin]

Without ANY FURTHUR TEUTELAGE IN HIS LIFETIME .

"Later" means nothing if you dont learn anything in the Meantime . He had no other teachers in the Interim .

WTF? just because you dont have any further teutelage from teachers doesnt mean he cannot learn on his own and get better as I have done the same thing also and when I sparred with my sifu after a two year break he said I got even better then when I last left his teachings.


Wich he KNEW , and its why he specifically avoided being caught fighting - or even seriously Sparring - in his lifetime .

Dont you know anything about Martial arts its not about going out and looking for fights its about learning about your self to be humble the best MA fighters are the ones that have nothing to prove because they have alot of confidence in themselves. I know Bruce was cocky and a show boat but when it came down to serious fighting situations he would humble him self as he new what the consequences where for actually fighting especially in public he could get sued, thrown in jail ,charged for mureder or get seriously injured himself now why would he risk all that if it didnt help or benefit his movie career?



That only makes him "Good" at Propaganda and PR . NOT MA .

It seems as if you have a grudge against Bruce Lee but what have you done to impact the world of Martial arts? You critisize alot but the one you should be critisizing is your self. If it wasnt for Bruce and alot of other prominent figures in Martial arts history that help open the doors to other cultures instead of being closed minded non of you Guailos would know any asian martial arts.

 

[CrazyK]

It seems as if you have a grudge against Bruce Lee but what have you done to impact the world of Martial arts? You critisize alot but the one you should be critisizing is your self. If it wasnt for Bruce and alot of other prominent figures in Martial arts history that help open the doors to other cultures instead of being closed minded non of you Guailos would know any asian martial arts.

He's pissed because Bruce said Kung Fu has a lot of BS in it and isn't a complete art. Which is all true.

 

[Djimbe]

Kung Fu isnt an art at all .

Crack a Book .

 

[Djimbe]

It seems as if you have a grudge against Bruce Lee but what have you done to impact the world of Martial arts? You critisize alot but the one you should be critisizing is your self. If it wasnt for Bruce and alot of other prominent figures in Martial arts history that help open the doors to other cultures instead of being closed minded non of you Guailos would know any asian martial arts.

Im not FROM the US , MORON ! And YES , I very well WOULD know EXACTLY what I know wether Bruce Lee had been Born or not ! My Instructor was teaching what he taught right were I learned it LONG before bruce ever MET Yip Man ! And the fact of the matter is that it dosent MATTER what Effect I had on MA as long as Im not sitting about taking undue Credit for it . THAT is the Problem . Bruce looked cool in the movies .

THAT was his Contribution to MA .

Stop Lumping him in with REAL MA greats that DID contribute , and stop casting the Chinese as all being Racists .

 

[whitedragon]

All legends are over hyped to an extent. Bruce was a hero to many people growing up. There's a British phrase I heard that said "You should never meet your heroes." Regardless of what people argue over he was a very talented martial artist. He had speed, power, conditioning, and good technique. Could he fight? I don't know. I've heard some people say that he could and some say that he couldn't. He did at one time though train a lot of MA fighters and they were all champions. People like Chuck Norris and Joe Lewis and a lot of names I can't remember from being hit in the head too much.

My personal thought is though if you want to include Jackie Chan and Jet Li, neither of them have been in a fight. Neither of them ever fought. Chan did Shanghai opera and Li only did Wushu forms. They're conditioning and skill at what they do if amazing, but neither of them are fighters. Chan has even said on talk shows that Bruce Lee could kick his ass because he's just an actor and has never fought anybody.

In all honesty though. Lee's an iconic legend and the fact that his skill is this highly debated shows how much of impact he's made in many people's lives. I love Bruce Lee and the fact that we never saw him at his true potential only makes it easier to hype him up because people wonder "What could have been?"

 

[MikeMartial]

In all honesty though. Lee's an iconic legend and the fact that his skill is this highly debated shows how much of impact he's made in many people's lives. I love Bruce Lee and the fact that we never saw him at his true potential only makes it easier to hype him up because people wonder "What could have been?"

Once again, someone makes a perfect final point. Now let this damn thread die.