Britain is 5-8 years behind the US in terms of PCT supplementation...

[bigbassturd]

Let's put it this way, I drive a 2012 3/4 ton Powerstroke deisel truck. I have heated leather seats, aftermarket radio components, upgraded suspension, and several other goodies.

I'm going to drive from point A to point B, across a really tough stretch of land, and you race me in a beat up '80 model piece of shit with no accessories or suspension.

Who do you think will get there first, and which one of us will have had the smoother ride?

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness

 

[liffalot]

I'm new around here, but I'm wondering if you guys know what you're talking about. Serms are meant to block the action of estrogen while there is an imbalance in your system. I don't know why folks are basing Nolva (please tell me) but from what I understand, Nolva and clomid are structurally very similar and act very similarly in the body.

Serms also serve a secondary function of stimulating lh and fsh production, though from what I understand, not too effectively, but that's not their job.
Their job is to block the action of estrogen while your body tries to get test production up to speed. So when you feel like trash, that's not the nolva, that's the low test levels.

I'm a chemical engineering major, but I haven't gotten into the meat of my coursework so take my understanding with a grain of salt.

Can someone explain why so much hate for Nolva?

To be completely honest, I haven't cycled yet, but it's really frustrating to see so much contradictory information... This is sort of a science, you can't just say fuck this protocol and fuck that protocol because you didn't feel how you expected to feel, it just confuses people.

Don't mean to bash on anyone here btw.


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Its complicated bro, and yes, you're right, Clomid and Nolvadex are similar in the way that they act on the body. However, they are not similar in all of their aspects.

Both of them have agonist and antagonist properties meaning that in some tissues they act as competitive inhibitors in the receptors and in some tissues they activate the receptor that they bind to. The difference between the two SERMS is WHICH receptors they antagonize. Clomids primary function is to block estrogen at the pituatary which signals to the body through the negative feedback loop to create more testosterone. This is important because it will elevate both estrogen and testosterone levels (the estrogen is still present, just not recognized).

Nolvadex's primary function is to block estrogen AT the tissue sites (thus its primary purpose in preventing breast cancer) and only secondarily, and very weakly, blocks estrogen reception at the pituitary. This means that while on Nolva, your body is creating estrogen that is not being received by its inended tissues, but it is also not blocked by at the pituitary. This, in term, means that your body is recognizing that it is producing plenty of testosterone based on your estrogen levels, and it can shut down test production, leaving you with elevated blood estrogen levels and low testosterone levels. The reason you may not NOTICE that your hormones are being trashed is because the estrogen is being blocked from entering the tissues.

Nolva isnt trash for everything, but people dont use it for what its meant for. For men, it is MEANT to treat gyno, and NOT MEANT to be used in PCT. Clomid works very well for PCT as shown by the mechanisms described above.

Hope that helps.

 

[smad1]

Its complicated bro, and yes, you're right, Clomid and Nolvadex are similar in the way that they act on the body. However, they are not similar in all of their aspects.

Both of them have agonist and antagonist properties meaning that in some tissues they act as competitive inhibitors in the receptors and in some tissues they activate the receptor that they bind to. The difference between the two SERMS is WHICH receptors they antagonize. Clomids primary function is to block estrogen at the pituatary which signals to the body through the negative feedback loop to create more testosterone. This is important because it will elevate both estrogen and testosterone levels (the estrogen is still present, just not recognized).

Nolvadex's primary function is to block estrogen AT the tissue sites (thus its primary purpose in preventing breast cancer) and only secondarily, and very weakly, blocks estrogen reception at the pituitary. This means that while on Nolva, your body is creating estrogen that is not being received by its inended tissues, but it is also not blocked by at the pituitary. This, in term, means that your body is recognizing that it is producing plenty of testosterone based on your estrogen levels, and it can shut down test production, leaving you with elevated blood estrogen levels and low testosterone levels. The reason you may not NOTICE that your hormones are being trashed is because the estrogen is being blocked from entering the tissues.

Nolva isnt trash for everything, but people dont use it for what its meant for. For men, it is MEANT to treat gyno, and NOT MEANT to be used in PCT. Clomid works very well for PCT as shown by the mechanisms described above.

Hope that helps.

Thank you,

That does explain some things. I was going to do nolva 20/20/10/10 on my test e 500 cycle. So I guess now clomid for pct.

Any other readings on the topic you would recommend?

 

[liffalot]

Thank you,

That does explain some things. I was going to do nolva 20/20/10/10 on my test e 500 cycle. So I guess now clomid for pct.

Any other readings on the topic you would recommend?

This is a good one on how clomid works in men, its nice and simpy put: http://www.maledoc.com/blog/2010/04/28/how-clomid-works-in-men/

This one is pretty good on explaining the different function of Nolva although its a bit scientifically worded Nolvadex works differently