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Bridging drugs.... let's put a list together
- Thread starter siceone
- Start date
LivinLarger
New member
Slin/creatine
HGH
Proviron
Winny sucks as a bridge BTW
Dbol (best IMO)
LL
HGH
Proviron
Winny sucks as a bridge BTW
Dbol (best IMO)
LL
What are you talking about? Any exogeneous androgen source will supress natural T production. The amount of shut-down is dose and duration dependant. Bridging just prolongs the damage.
As far as drugs which cause the least amount of supression -- Primo, Winny,Proviron. (All DHT'ers)
As far as drugs which cause the least amount of supression -- Primo, Winny,Proviron. (All DHT'ers)
LivinLarger
New member
I was thinking the same thing.....
Only in regard to the fact that W will convert to DHT, thus less aramotization, (more estrogen can lead to increased supression) and the fact that W has been shown to reduce SHBG. But as stated in the first half of my comment, ALL steroids supress.
In terms of the D-bol AM, well, I already mentioned that briging isn't a good idea so I'm not sure what you're asking. Is 10 mgs of D-bol any more supressive than 10 mgs of Winny? Probably not much, unless you want to go with the study cited by Grunding and Baemann where they said that "20mgs of D-bol over 10 days will reduce T up to 40%" but I'm unsure of the accuracy of that data.
The D-bol (or any oral) in the morning is really just a "taper off." Not a bad idea, but if anyone thinks they can go from one cycle to the next doing this without any supression, they're kidding themselves.
In terms of the D-bol AM, well, I already mentioned that briging isn't a good idea so I'm not sure what you're asking. Is 10 mgs of D-bol any more supressive than 10 mgs of Winny? Probably not much, unless you want to go with the study cited by Grunding and Baemann where they said that "20mgs of D-bol over 10 days will reduce T up to 40%" but I'm unsure of the accuracy of that data.
The D-bol (or any oral) in the morning is really just a "taper off." Not a bad idea, but if anyone thinks they can go from one cycle to the next doing this without any supression, they're kidding themselves.
LivinLarger
New member
I'm not really arguing that bridging will not supress T levels to some degree, only that I believe Winny is a poor choice for a bridge and IMO much more suppressive than AM Only Dbol@10MG.
LivinLarger: Okay, I'll throw the question right back at you. Why do you think 10mgs of Winny AM is worse than 10mgs of D-bol AM?
LivinLarger
New member
One reason is the longer half life of the winny, Dbol is out of the system in 4-5hrs. Natural test levels are highest in the AM upon waking, the body is kinda "tricked" into not noticing the Dbol.
If you bridge with a winny ED you are never really off at all and the body never see's a "clean" state.
There are other reasons as well, but I have to hunt them up unless someone else chimes in with them.
LL
If you bridge with a winny ED you are never really off at all and the body never see's a "clean" state.
There are other reasons as well, but I have to hunt them up unless someone else chimes in with them.
LL
liquidmuscle
Well-known member
bridging is fer pussies! 
j/k
j/k
Road Dog: You are cirrect, but it's doubtful your suggestions will be of much help.
Creatine will not retain muscle.
GH (which I've used extensively) is the biggest farce in bodybuilding.
Clen is catabolc, not anabolic as once thought.
Glutamine is worthless and will not grow an ounce more muscle than plain protein.
And I think anyone who uses insulin is out of their mind, so I guess I have no comment on it's "bridging" effectiveness.
Creatine will not retain muscle.
GH (which I've used extensively) is the biggest farce in bodybuilding.
Clen is catabolc, not anabolic as once thought.
Glutamine is worthless and will not grow an ounce more muscle than plain protein.
And I think anyone who uses insulin is out of their mind, so I guess I have no comment on it's "bridging" effectiveness.
the reason why I have creatine and glutamine in there is because it goes well with the slin.(slin is not that dangerous if you know what you are doing)I have used it many times with no problems.Nelson Montana said:
As far as gh being a farce,I guess that is a matter of opinion.You said clen is catabolic?That's new's to me.Sounds like you are set on using anabolics while "off",good luck at recovering your hpta.
Insulin definately isn't for everyone but I've used it with great results post cycle. I don't see how anyone who uses it is crazy. You'd have to be pretty careless to die from insulin use.
I agree in that using androgens post cycle is pointless and will probably keep you shut down. The dbol theory is off IMO. Natural test does not spike in the AM. It spikes throught the day in 2 hour incriments in health adult men.
I agree in that using androgens post cycle is pointless and will probably keep you shut down. The dbol theory is off IMO. Natural test does not spike in the AM. It spikes throught the day in 2 hour incriments in health adult men.
Dbol
arimidex
piracetam
bromocriptine
clen/keto
ECA
NYC
crack
LSD
MIC
KEY
MOUSE
OK..... I may have slipped a few in that may or may not belong.
Nelson I think it is the wording thats throwing you. Over at AF when we say bridge, we really mean taper, or as Mr. Nobody calls it, a "soft landing", as opposed to a post-cycle crash. I believe thats how DaMan meant it as well. Anywho, If your lookin to retain the majority of your gains AND you havent too greatly exceeded your genetic potential AM dbol and arimidex are an excellent aid.
aromatization is a non-factor w/ 10mg o' Dbol and arimidex. Winny or var have a half life thats too long to use anything over 5 and thats just not enough to help significantly IMO.
arimidex
piracetam
bromocriptine
clen/keto
ECA
NYC
crack
LSD
MIC
KEY
MOUSE
OK..... I may have slipped a few in that may or may not belong.
Nelson I think it is the wording thats throwing you. Over at AF when we say bridge, we really mean taper, or as Mr. Nobody calls it, a "soft landing", as opposed to a post-cycle crash. I believe thats how DaMan meant it as well. Anywho, If your lookin to retain the majority of your gains AND you havent too greatly exceeded your genetic potential AM dbol and arimidex are an excellent aid.
aromatization is a non-factor w/ 10mg o' Dbol and arimidex. Winny or var have a half life thats too long to use anything over 5 and thats just not enough to help significantly IMO.
Slin definately not that dangerous. You would have to inj ,not eat a thing and go to bed to really fuck up. Just inj and then consume carb/protein/creatine drink and 30min later take in some more carbs and protein(If using humalog,and you should be). Its just in vogue to say slin is dangerous. Fuck I inj at 9pm and go to bed at 11pm. Low and behold I awoke this morning..........galaxy
Oh yeah let s not forget dbol bridge needs to be taken with 1mg of liquidex, its the estrogen that keeps you shut down.
Oh yeah let s not forget dbol bridge needs to be taken with 1mg of liquidex, its the estrogen that keeps you shut down.
Nelson Montana said:
There is a study out proving that 10mg AM dbol suppression is negligible - even more so than equal amounts of oxandrolone. I'll look for it... (was posted on AF board in a similar debate (well, similar but more scientific
).That disproved the hypothesis that AM dbol would suppress the HPTA beyond reasonable expectations.
As you said, all steroids are suppressive - on what evidence do you base your claim that winstrol is as mild as primo? (Any quantitative data? I understand your DHT point but without numbers that's still conjecture.)
If I don't post the AM dbol study by Sunday please bump my lazy ass... time to enjoy my Friday night!!!
Never said W was as mild as Primo.
A lot of this stuff is conjecture. That's part of the fun -- taking what we know and drawing observations. Some opinions are provacative and others are hair-brained.
I haven't seen the debate you mention, although I'm not sure it would be "proof" of anything. What's "negligable" supression? You're asking for numbers so I'll do the same. Exactly how much suppression? (That's a hypotetical question because too many factors dictate the outcome.) Have there been studies that compare the supression of 10mgs of d-bol to 10mgs of winstrol? At any rate, we're debating minutia here. Bottom line: Bridging = bad idea.
My Friday night is already shot.
A lot of this stuff is conjecture. That's part of the fun -- taking what we know and drawing observations. Some opinions are provacative and others are hair-brained.
I haven't seen the debate you mention, although I'm not sure it would be "proof" of anything. What's "negligable" supression? You're asking for numbers so I'll do the same. Exactly how much suppression? (That's a hypotetical question because too many factors dictate the outcome.) Have there been studies that compare the supression of 10mgs of d-bol to 10mgs of winstrol? At any rate, we're debating minutia here. Bottom line: Bridging = bad idea.
My Friday night is already shot.
DaMan said:
There is a study out proving that 10mg AM dbol suppression is negligible - even more so than equal amounts of oxandrolone. I'll look for it... (was posted on AF board in a similar debate (well, similar but more scientific
That disproved the hypothesis that AM dbol would suppress the HPTA beyond reasonable expectations.
As you said, all steroids are suppressive - on what evidence do you base your claim that winstrol is as mild as primo? (Any quantitative data? I understand your DHT point but without numbers that's still conjecture.)
If I don't post the AM dbol study by Sunday please bump my lazy ass... time to enjoy my Friday night!!!
Yes I know of that study. The dutch were the ones who performed the study. I read it a while back in Musclemag. If I remember correctly the study proved that even a 50mg dose all in the morning had little to no suppression of testosterone. The reason being is that d-bol has a short half life and is in and out of the body really quickly. Leutinizing hormone is secreted at night and this hormone in turn signals the testes to produce more testosterone. Since it's out of the system by the time night time comes around it does not interfere with leutinizing hormone.
LH is not secreted at night but throught the day. If thats why dbol in the morning is supposed to work (by "tricking" the body into thinking dbol is natural test) then this should kind of disprove that theory. Not saying it definately does...just throwing out ideas.
http://www.endotext.org/male/male5/male5.htm
http://www.endotext.org/male/male5/male5.htm
D-Bol converts to estrogen really easy and high estrogen will shut you down just like high androgen. Estrogen´s half-life is much longer than d-bol´s is.
So you´d have to take an aromatase inhibitor with it, which will fuck up your lipid profile. I don´t think bridging works, you might just as well stay on year round. It´s a good idea for tapering off, though, it might prevent the big crash after a long period if androgens.
So you´d have to take an aromatase inhibitor with it, which will fuck up your lipid profile. I don´t think bridging works, you might just as well stay on year round. It´s a good idea for tapering off, though, it might prevent the big crash after a long period if androgens.
Diz: Your post proves my point. (One of them anyway) This whole "tricking the body" bit is wishful thinking.I think that self proclaimed genius (nit wit) Bill Roberts came up with this and I'm sure he added a lot of convoluted scientific prattle along with his theory -- which so many people LOVE to hear! If it's confusing, he MUST know what he's talking about, right?!
Be that as it may, it should be noted that sleep offers many recuperation benifits, so ONCE AGAIN, using just morning doses may not be a bad idea for a taper, but "bridging" is simply a fantasy.
Clen like all CNS affects the adrenal glands
which leads to the release of cortisol which is catabolic.
Be that as it may, it should be noted that sleep offers many recuperation benifits, so ONCE AGAIN, using just morning doses may not be a bad idea for a taper, but "bridging" is simply a fantasy.
Clen like all CNS affects the adrenal glands
which leads to the release of cortisol which is catabolic.
Nelson Montana said:
LOL.......I like you. You're not afraid to go against the status quo
so to speak.
The Winny vs Dball debate is simple.
Stanazolol half-life = 9hrs approx. Those damn crystals....
Methandrostenelone = 3.2-4.5 hrs
Then, I'd add:
1. EPO
2. IGF-1 R3 Long
3. Cabergoline
EPO if used in low doses is very, very good for recovery.
I've been reading up on it. Mr. N/Animal first suggested it
for recovery.
Fonz
At 10mgs, the extra 4 hour half life may not mean much. It'll stll be essentially inert by the time you go to sleep. ANYWAY, this point has been belabored ad nauseum.
Fonz -- EPO -- Interesting. What was your experience? I'd be concerned that RBC count would already be high from the cycle. Going with this theory, I would think a "natural" alternative would be heme iron and all the water you can drink -- making even creatine (gasp!) a viable aid.
Fonz -- EPO -- Interesting. What was your experience? I'd be concerned that RBC count would already be high from the cycle. Going with this theory, I would think a "natural" alternative would be heme iron and all the water you can drink -- making even creatine (gasp!) a viable aid.
Nelson Montana said:
(Shameless plug for SofaGeorge and Carao)
Well, in as far as RBC is concerned its:
1. EPO
2. Anadrol
These two are the best for RBC stimulation.
Anyways, post-cycle we want to recover so carao would be
a damn viable addition. It increases Hemoglobin and therefore
RBC counts. Obviously not as good as EPO or Anadrol but
still noteworthy.
Also, EPO is something you need to sudy. And, I do mean study.
Your hematocrit could go through the roof without you knowing
anyhting about it and you'd end up horizontal.
Fonz
rottweiler75
New member
I might be totally wrong on this one but most everything on here is theory anyways, like last weeks posts of how clomid and hcg dont help bring natural hormone production back. As far as what some people call facts are sometimes taken off non controlled studies. I have heard of many posts talking about how suprresive a certain milligram/steriod is, like bill roberts example of a typical noradrolone shot and its suppression that occured in the first few days. Alot of these studies are incomplete, there not mass double blind studies, like what the FDA might do for a drug. Everyone responds different so to treat them as facts is ignorant. One thing I have noticed from being around dogs my whole life is when u fix a dog they dont lose there mass that quick at all, even with a very fit male. It usually occurs over time, espically when the dog becomes more sediated due to less hormones. What im trying to say here is the bodys endrocrine system is trying to be in a state of homeostasis, and with test or androgen levels high cortisol levels should follow. Im not to sure the problem at hand is too little of a hormone, but actually too much of another.
