box squat height

[IrishPower]

Hello. I have gotten a lot of questions regarding box squat height and have noticed a lot of dissention amongst various proponents of box squatting.

So, after reading Ano's training journal (maybe you think I worship him now and you are probably right... he has replaced my nude Serena and Venus Williams desktop photos), and looking at his forum answer, I have made some changes to my box squats. I have also consulted briefly with Dave Tate regarding this and seem to have his agreement with height.


1. I have moved my stance as far out as it will possibly go in the power rack.

2. I now flare my hips out as well as sit back on the way down to the box. This is hard to envision but think of pushing your legs out against and adductor machine. Video may be a better way to show this (look for it later).

3. I have raised my box squat height to where the hip joint is exactly parallel with the knee. This resulted in a substantial raise in height for me.

4. I have ensured that the tension from the band is already on when in the bottom position but NOT extremely tightened. I had to rig my powercage a special way and use dumbells to make this happen. I will post digital pics later on my site.


Some observations from today.

Using 50% of my recent competition PR of 771, and green bands, I felt I was lightning fast, my form was much better, and there was much less knee and hip stress. I am going to follow this routine all the way until the Alberta, Canada meet (5 weeks) and see if it results in something good.

I will post the videos tonight on my journal. Thanks for listening and feedback is welcome!

/irish

 

[Twitched]

Good post irish, I was getting turned off by box squats due to the knee/ hip stress and degradation of form from a real low box.. I'm going to move mine up a lot to just parralel like you're doing..


Question: could you please post that serena + venus pic? ;-)

 

[IrishPower]

if you bomb out of your next meet on depth, don't blame me

this is an experiment, but i think it will work.

to validate my theory, I am going to take a ME box squat (below parallel) in 3 weeks, and if my PR has moved up, I am going to presume that doing speed weight at parallel is ok.

regarding serena and venus:

sorry, I can't do that. i promised them personally that their pictures we took in my bedroom would never leave my possession.

/irish


oh yeah: videos are on the journal now

 

[benchmonster]

Irish,

For a technical guy, you are not giving out the math details too good here. (Not an English Comp Major)

What height box were you using before, and what are you using now. I have been killing myself to try and get a low enough squat to the point that I am doing speed work on a 11 inch box.

And after doing this for a while, when I watch my squat on video, with anything over 315, it still looks too high. This has been discouraging to say the least.

I have squatted 500 on a just at parallel box, but 3 inches high has me putting up around 625. But when I try and M.E. squat off the 11.5 inch box, I am getting stuck under 400 lbs. This to me is insane.

I am wondering if I am just a puss, or what the problem is? Should there be a 200 plus difference between a high box and low box squat. And all those PR's were set with a single ply Inzer Z-suit with the straps down.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!

B.

 

[b fold the truth]

My box is about 14"...or maybe 14.5". It is way below parallel for me...maybe I should move mine up a bit too?

B True

 

[Deciever]

i squat on a milk crate w/ a thin rubber pad on top

 

[IrishPower]

bmonster (not spelling out bench is preventing carpal-tunnel),

i was squatting off a 12" box. I added a 1" piece of wood and 2 mats totalling about 3/4". So I guess we can round up to 14"

I am only 5'9.5. This definitely does NOT put me below parallel.

bfold: my partner is your height. he was squatting off 13" box before. Moving up to 15 today made him look a lot better form wise. His back rounded less, he looked more explosive, and was in general more comfortable. However, since your goal is NOT a max squat, you need to ask yourself if hip development is really going to help you in your sport. I have said this before that I don't think these ultra wide stance squats would do a lot of good for someone that has to go into a USAPL meet. The lift has sort of evolved now into something different.

Remember this is an experiment. I don't want to be accused of breeding an army of high squatters !

Also remember in a meet, you will probably have a snug(ger) pair of groove briefs on AND a suit. You should, technically be able to do the following once you determine how the judges are calling depth:

1. bring your stance in a tad.
2. use the suit to your advantage

I have to repeat that this is an experiment. I just got sick of being slow and having my hips ache with the ultra-wide stance.

I know that EliteFTS guys are claiming 1" below parallel, but in the westside videos that i have (which are sort of old), the lifters look pretty damn close to parallel on the box. Its hard to tell. Thats why i want to see more digital videos. pictures are worth 1000 words. movies are worth 10000!

Good luck.
/irish

 

[benchmonster]

B is fine, even further staving off carpal tunnel. I need to learn to masturbate with my left. I don't know how much more damage the right can sustain. Oh, Sorry, bit off topic here.

I am five seven and a half, and the 11 inch box feels insanely low. I feel like I have to almost drop the last couple of inches to even get to the box, then I don't know quite how to get off the damn thing.

Nothing is ever easy. I have tried doing snatch grip squats and full free squats (no box) for the last few weeks and have managed to get very sore in my legs. I have doubts that my squat has gone up any in this time.

The experiment continues.

B.

 

[IrishPower]

b,

you only use 1 hand to masturbate? i am truly sorry.

as far as free squatting, and having box squats translate to gains in a ME free squat attempt:

speed work alone will probably not bring your squat up. now, if you are adding band tension and/or chains, this will do more for you, BUT i think they key is really what you do on ME day.

DYN work will help blast you out of the hole, but you need that back and top-end hip-strength to finish the lift (read GOOD MORNINGS heavy as hell).

I noticed that when I started LOWERing my weight on speed day, my ME days got better. I was extremely nervous at my last meet. I had no clue what I could really lift. It seemed to work though.

/irish

 

[powerlifterjay]

Irish i used my box exactly how your set up now. I was called high but video shows it was not. But... I have now dropped to an 11 inch box and am still fast as hell. In fact my normal height is one block added to it. About 13 to 13 1/2 is parallel (hair under for me) but now we are just gonna flip flop back in forth. But my stance is where my toes are hanging over the edge of the power rack. I am literally Chuck V wide now. At the meet i was inches form the monolift, now i would be dam near touching. I also have moved my arms all the way out. No more room unless i grab the plates. Dont know if i can hold 750 plus that way but i have gone with bands 675 at the top and 400 at bottom with them. Thats blues and greens double choked down with 350lb loaded , on an 11 inch box. Lot less stress on my shoulders.

Irish you will workout much better this way. On the 11 inch box i am almost stopping were my normal 13 inch es is. I am much faster and more powerful off a parallel box. Obviously, but feel more work being done on the 11. I used to feel like at parallel it was almost effortless. I havent maxed on the 11 so i dont knwo the difference yet. Let me know how it goes.

 

[benchmonster]

I guess I just need to start buying feminine hygene products. I have done tons of good mornings, but although I think they are a great exercise, and have helped my ability to hold onto heavy weights and do well at the top of the lift, they are not doing much to help me get down low at the bottom.

I will send Irish a video of a squat workout for critique. I am really getting desperate about the whole situation. I feel like I have to damn near fold in two to get any kind of depth at all. The good mornings are good for this, because it feels like my head is out in front of my toes when I am at the bottom.

I know all about the idea of sitting back, and I have tried for a year now to do this. When I have a box to catch me, I can sit back pretty well, but I have literally fallen backward in the power rack 5 or 6 times trying this shit without the box.

As much fun as that is in the privacy of my own home with the rack pins to catch me, imagine how much fun and excitement that will be in a monolift with 600 or so falling to the floor.

Frustration mounting. . . don't want to be a puss. . . must. . . find. . . a . . . way. . . to . . . squat low!!! gasp. . . cough. . . hero expires..

B.

 

[Deciever]

bench- work on your flexibility, try active stretchting. Move your stance in a bit. It will help in the long run. i moved my stance in bout 1/2 inch on each side and it let me get about 1-2 inches lower.

 

[benchmonster]

I can do the splits. I doubt flexibility is the issue. Of note, when I was fighting in college, I tore both hamstrings at different times. One was so bad, I could hardly walk or even drive a car for several weeks.

I used to think this was my problem sitting back and getting low, till I read about Brent Mikesell, who tore both of his at the same time and now squats over a grand every freaking meet.

Hey deciever, would you mind e-mailing me your e-mail addy. I finally got my digital camera figured out to some extent and have a couple of pics I would like to send you. You can either e-mail me at [email protected] or PM it to me.

Thanks in advance.

B.

 

[Deciever]

bench- you can do the splits? wow. Im working on increasing my flexibility in my inner thighs, so i can push out more, and not feel like im tearing my muscle.

 

[IrishPower]

PLJAY and BMonster:


I put up some digital pics of the different heights I have tried on the box:

http://www.growordie.com/training/for_dave/

I am going to stick with the 13.5 one for this training cycle and maybe one more and see what happens.

IMO: the hip joint is slightly below the top of the knee but it is hard to tell. I think the key is to sink your first attempt to solidy in the judges minds that you can go below, then drop in the hole quickly on the 2nd and 3rd attempts.

/irish

 

[benchmonster]

Which height did Dave say was low enough? I will e-mail you some pics tomorrow of me on a box w/heights, and see what you think about whether it is low enough or not.

I think my perspective is being thrown off by the gross overcoverage that USAPL/IPF gets in PLUSA. Seems like if the squat doesn't look like the bottom position of an olympic snatch, then it ain't low enough.

I need to revive the gym rat high squatting weirdo olympics so I can compete in a full power meet. If only I can get them to let me dig a hole to stand in for deadlifting.

B.

 

[IrishPower]

Dave said to go ahead and use the 13.5 because it felt the most comfortable to me. He mentioned that it was a tad high, BUT....

I am still new to the ultra-wide stance squatting style. I dont want to burn out my hips by forcing them in an unnatural position with a lot of weight so soon.

I am actually going to take a few heavies on Speed Day with a lower height as well.

I am also doing more and more hip stretches to increase flexibility. When I get ready for APF Seniors, you can bet that I will be going a little lower so I don't bomb out

regarding uspf/usapl: I have said over and over that these squats probably wont do much for you there, but i am not going to enter any of these meets so there is no need for me to train with my ass to the floor. I plan on still squatting over 800 when I am 40 and 50 years old and don't care for a patella rupture. I'll stick with the APF thank you!


/irish

 

[Hannibal]

1. I have moved my stance as far out as it will possibly go in the power rack.

IRISH....how wide is your stance now?

 

[IrishPower]

dont know. >48 i think.

 

[b fold the truth]

Mine is 50 or so and I was told that it is toooo narrow...

B True

 

[benchmonster]

B-fold, you are also about 5 inches taller than Irish. I think that has a lot to do with the width you can attain.

B.

 

[Hannibal]

OK...here's a better question....how wide is the base of a Monolift. In other words, if your feet are against the base of the monolift....how wide is your stance?

Just curious from watching the WSB Tapes....how wide is WIDE?

 

[benchmonster]

I think it depends upon the model of the monolift, Hannibal. The older ones have a 48 inch base, I beleive, and the newer ones, are maybe 6 inches wider. Not positive on those numbers.

I tried to take a stance like Chuck V. in one of the newer monolifts a few months ago, and I cannot get out that wide. I think Chuck must be taller than me.

B.

 

[IrishPower]

hannibal.

i have crepinsek's cage where my feet can poke out under the supports. if you want to get a mental picture, go visit my site. i have tons on pictures.

/irish
www.growordie.com