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BluRay pretty much wraps up the format war

hanselthecaretaker

High End Bro
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Toshiba quits HD DVD business

By YURI KAGEYAMA, AP Business Writer Tue Feb 19, 7:02 AM ET

TOKYO - Toshiba said Tuesday it will no longer develop, make or market HD DVD players and recorders, handing a victory to rival Blu-ray disc technology in the format battle for next-generation video.

"We concluded that a swift decision would be best," Toshiba President Atsutoshi Nishida told reporters at his company's Tokyo offices.

The move would make Blu-ray — backed by Sony Corp., Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., which makes Panasonic brand products, and five major Hollywood movie studios — the winner in the battle over high-definition DVD formatting that began several years ago.

Nishida said last month's decision by Warner Bros. Entertainment to release movie discs only in the Blu-ray format made the move inevitable.

"That had tremendous impact," he said. "If we had continued, that would have created problems for consumers, and we simply had no chance to win."

Warner joined Sony Pictures, Walt Disney Co. and News Corp.'s Twentieth Century Fox in that move.

Nishida said his company had confidence in HD DVD as a technology and tried to assure the estimated 1 million people, including some 600,000 people in North America, who already bought HD DVD machines by promising that Toshiba will continue to provide product support for the technology.

Both HD DVD and Blu-ray deliver crisp, clear high-definition pictures and sound, which are more detailed and vivid than existing video technology. They are incompatible with each other, and neither plays on older DVD players. But both formats play on high-definition TVs.

HD DVD was touted as being cheaper because it was more similar to previous video technology, while Blu-ray boasted bigger recording capacity.

Only one video format has been expected to emerge as the victor, much like VHS trumped Sony's Betamax in the video format battle of the 1980s.

Nishida said it was still uncertain what will happen with the Hollywood studios that signed to produce HD DVD movies, including Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation.

Toshiba's pulling the plug on the technology is expected to reduce the number of new high-definition movies that people will be able to watch on HD DVD machines. Toshiba Corp. said shipments of HD DVD machines to retailers will be reduced and will stop by end of March.

Sales in Blu-ray gadgets are now likely to pick up as consumers had held off in investing in the latest recorders and players because they didn't know which format would emerge dominant.

Despite being a possible blow to Toshiba's pride, the exit will probably lessen the potential damage in losses in HD DVD operations. Goldman Sachs has said pulling out would improve Toshiba's profitability between 40 billion yen and 50 billion yen ($370 million-$460 million) a year.

The reasons behind Blu-ray's triumph over HD DVD are complex, as marketing, management maneuvers and other factors are believed to have played into the shift to Blu-ray's favor that became more decisive during the critical holiday shopping season.

Once the balance starts tilting in favor of one in a format battle, then the domination tends to grow and become final, said Kazuharu Miura, an analyst at Daiwa Institute of Research in Tokyo.

"The trend became decisive I think this year," he said. "When Warner made its decision, it was basically over."

With movie studios increasingly lining up behind Blu-ray, retailers also began to stock more Blu-ray products.

Friday's decision by Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the largest U.S. retailer, to sell only Blu-ray DVDs and hardware appeared to deal a final blow to the Toshiba format. Just five days earlier, Netflix Inc. said it will cease carrying rentals in HD DVD.

Several major American retailers had already made similar decisions, including Target Corp. and Blockbuster Inc.

Also adding to Blu-ray's momentum was the gradual increase in sales of Sony's PlayStation 3 home video-game console, which also works as a Blu-ray player. Sony has sold 10.5 million PS3 machines worldwide since the machine went on sale late 2006.

HD DVD supporters included Microsoft Corp., Intel Corp. and Japanese electronics maker NEC Corp.

Microsoft's Xbox 360 game machine can play HD DVD movies, but the drive had to be bought separately, and Nishida said about 300,000 people have those.

Worldwide sales of personal computers with HD DVD drives total about 300,000 worldwide, including 140,000 in North America and 130,000 in Europe, he said.

Recently, the Blu-ray disc format has been gaining market share, especially in Japan. A study on fourth quarter sales last year by market researcher BCN Inc. found that by unit volume, Blu-ray made up 96 percent of Japanese sales.

Sony said it did not have numbers on how many Blu-ray players had been sold globally.

Toshiba's stock slipped 0.6 percent Tuesday to 824 yen after jumping 5.7 percent Monday amid reports that a decision was imminent. Sony shares climbed 2.2 percent to 5,010 yen after rising 1 percent Monday.

Also Tuesday, Toshiba said it plans to spend more than 1.7 trillion yen ($15.7 billion) for two plants in Japan to produce sophisticated chips called NAND flash memory, which are used in portable music players and cell phones. Production there will start in 2010.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080219/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_toshiba
 
I had purchased an HD DVD player on boxing day and the second i heard Warner's sided with Blue Ray i put it up for sale. At least i got my money back.
 
no I hadn't bought either one, but it's still god damn bullshit!! I hate fucking sony. Sony's CEO must have pulled some serious strings, or gone around offering his mouth to anyone who would sign over to blu ray. I mean fuck, there's a reason the ps3 was and continues to be expensive.........it's the blue ray player. How much more capacity do we need? Unless movie companies start making 4-5 hour long movies, who cares about extra capacity? The picture quality is identical........so where is the upside to blu ray? I can understand for games it may become viable, but for movies??
 
well i'm gonna wait for allt he good hd dvds to go for really cheap on ebay scoop em all up and still get a bluray player for all the new shit.
 
microsoft, gets owned.

1,000,000 people were impatient and now have great dvd players for johnny's room.

now finally the industry can move forward and come out with some great hd products.

r
 
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With internet cable connection now reaching 50MBs here in Montréal and other areas very soon, it will make Blu-Ray obsolete. Why buy a Blu-Ray player/recorder when you could just download a movie from the internet and watch it on your flat screen without leaving your couch ?
 
manny78 said:
With internet cable connection now reaching 50MBs here in Montréal and other areas very soon, it will make Blu-Ray obsolete. Why buy a Blu-Ray player/recorder when you could just download a movie from the internet and watch it on your flat screen without leaving your couch ?

Have DVDs become obsolete?

Quick answer: Storage. I can grab that DVD and take it w/me anywhere, not a 3 Terrabyte external HD.

There was a day when people predicted video games would all be downloaded onto consoles. Never happened.

r
 
manny78 said:
With internet cable connection now reaching 50MBs here in Montréal and other areas very soon, it will make Blu-Ray obsolete. Why buy a Blu-Ray player/recorder when you could just download a movie from the internet and watch it on your flat screen without leaving your couch ?

That's fine for big cities, but there are still plenty of areas without high speed internet.

No doubt digital streams and downloads will become more popular, but it's a long ways away from becoming the standard.

Plus some of us would like to physically own a dvd rather than pay money for something which disappears after you watch it.
 
alien amp pharm said:
That's fine for big cities, but there are still plenty of areas without high speed internet.

No doubt digital streams and downloads will become more popular, but it's a long ways away from becoming the standard.

Plus some of us would like to physically own a dvd rather than pay money for something which disappears after you watch it.

Plus companies get 'real antsy' about giving people the ability to burn stuff they download.

They still have restrictions on burning content you PAY for on itunes!

r
 
Razorguns said:
Plus companies get 'real antsy' about giving people the ability to burn stuff they download.

They still have restrictions on burning content you PAY for on itunes!

r
plus if u buy a ps3 .. u gettin a free blu ray dvd player built in .. u guys still play video gms dont u :chomp:
 
hurricane187 said:
plus if u buy a ps3 .. u gettin a free blu ray dvd player built in .. u guys still play video gms dont u :chomp:

Are they still offering the 5 free bluray movies with the purchase of a PS3?

If so now's the time to buy one. They may discontinue that sweet deal since they no longer need to compete with HD-DVD.

I just wish I had the $600 to spend.
 
alien amp pharm said:
Are they still offering the 5 free bluray movies with the purchase of a PS3?

If so now's the time to buy one. They may discontinue that sweet deal since they no longer need to compete with HD-DVD.

I just wish I had the $600 to spend.

Nah, with the announcements - asian companies can now roll-up their sleeves and ramp up production of BR players. And with mass production, prices go down.

All it takes is for ONE chinese manuf. to come out with a $200 BR player, and it fucks everyone else up. People flock to that player - it's sales go off the roof - and others, wanting to compete, have to lower their prices too. Remember when HDTV's were $3,000?

In 1 year, expect lotsa players. I'd buy one now, but I want one with 2.0 BR, and a usb drive to watch downloaded content.

r
 
Razorguns said:
Nah, with the announcements - asian companies can now roll-up their sleeves and ramp up production of BR players. And with mass production, prices go down.

All it takes is for ONE chinese manuf. to come out with a $200 BR player, and it fucks everyone else up. People flock to that player - it's sales go off the roof - and others, wanting to compete, have to lower their prices too. Remember when HDTV's were $3,000?

In 1 year, expect lotsa players. I'd buy one now, but I want one with 2.0 BR, and a usb drive to watch downloaded content.

r

I just meant now's the time to buy a PS3.
No doubt the players will all come down in price, but it will be a year or so before the PS3 does.

For a while they were offering 5 free movies with a PS3 purchase. Although I doubt they still have that deal.
 
alien amp pharm said:
Are they still offering the 5 free bluray movies with the purchase of a PS3?

If so now's the time to buy one. They may discontinue that sweet deal since they no longer need to compete with HD-DVD.

I just wish I had the $600 to spend.
NOT SURE but ps3 is $400 now and it comes with a 40 gb harddrive to download stuff
 
redsamurai said:
no I hadn't bought either one, but it's still god damn bullshit!! I hate fucking sony. Sony's CEO must have pulled some serious strings, or gone around offering his mouth to anyone who would sign over to blu ray. I mean fuck, there's a reason the ps3 was and continues to be expensive.........it's the blue ray player. How much more capacity do we need? Unless movie companies start making 4-5 hour long movies, who cares about extra capacity? The picture quality is identical........so where is the upside to blu ray? I can understand for games it may become viable, but for movies??

Rumor is that they paid Fox $200 million and Warner $400 million to go blu-ray. I wouldn't doubt it.

-flash
 
Razorguns said:
Have DVDs become obsolete?

Quick answer: Storage. I can grab that DVD and take it w/me anywhere, not a 3 Terrabyte external HD.

There was a day when people predicted video games would all be downloaded onto consoles. Never happened.

r

DVDs wont. It will serve as a good storage option. But keep in mind I can take a USB key anywhere with the same storage capacity.
 
hawaiianflash said:
Rumor is that they paid Fox $200 million and Warner $400 million to go blu-ray. I wouldn't doubt it.

-flash

It was financial $.

Sales of DVDs were dropping. People were starting to figure out "Shit, if i pay $20 now, in 1 year, i'm gonna have to buy it again in HD!".

Plus movies/tv shows are all taped in HD. And they keep having to downconvert back to SD just to ship to stores. Plus exciting extra footage they shoot, has to be cut out for the SD version. No space.

The quicker they hasten the HD conversion - the faster the boom to start buying up Blu Ray DVDs will begin. Lowering prices for all, and INCREASING profits.

I'm shooting a film this summer: HDV, 720p, 16:9, 1.87:1 ratio. But when it comes to rendering, I have to DOWNCONVERT to SD 720x480. How annoying. Makes me wanna cry. Gotta burn all these SD versions, cuz i know 99% of my market only has DVD players. And when HD is commonplace - I gotta burn BRay versions, and now my SD DVDs becomes an unsellable expense I have to just 'eat'.

Many filmmakers I know are shooting films, and delaying release as long as possible - just so when they release on video - they only have to release Blu Ray versions. Not some ugly SD version. The guy who made Transformers is pissed. The studio forced him to release it on HD, when for months, he was bitching at them that BR was the future. They never listened.

r
 
redsamurai said:
no I hadn't bought either one, but it's still god damn bullshit!! I hate fucking sony. Sony's CEO must have pulled some serious strings, or gone around offering his mouth to anyone who would sign over to blu ray. I mean fuck, there's a reason the ps3 was and continues to be expensive.........it's the blue ray player. How much more capacity do we need? Unless movie companies start making 4-5 hour long movies, who cares about extra capacity? The picture quality is identical........so where is the upside to blu ray? I can understand for games it may become viable, but for movies??


Uncompressed 24 bit sound in 7.1 takes up a dvd's worth of space alone for the length of a typical movie.
 
Razorguns said:
microsoft, gets owned.

1,000,000 people were impatient and now have great dvd players for johnny's room.

now finally the industry can move forward and come out with some great hd products.

r


Microsoft won't be affected that much by it. They'll just adapt. Its biggest loss will be the detachable HD drive for the Xbox 360, which will likely just be replaced with a BluRay version. That's if they don't just skip it and starting making the Xbox 720 instead.
Besides, it looks like they have their hands full with Yahoo! now.
 
Razorguns said:
It was financial $.

Sales of DVDs were dropping. People were starting to figure out "Shit, if i pay $20 now, in 1 year, i'm gonna have to buy it again in HD!".

Plus movies/tv shows are all taped in HD. And they keep having to downconvert back to SD just to ship to stores. Plus exciting extra footage they shoot, has to be cut out for the SD version. No space.

The quicker they hasten the HD conversion - the faster the boom to start buying up Blu Ray DVDs will begin. Lowering prices for all, and INCREASING profits.

I'm shooting a film this summer: HDV, 720p, 16:9, 1.87:1 ratio. But when it comes to rendering, I have to DOWNCONVERT to SD 720x480. How annoying. Makes me wanna cry. Gotta burn all these SD versions, cuz i know 99% of my market only has DVD players. And when HD is commonplace - I gotta burn BRay versions, and now my SD DVDs becomes an unsellable expense I have to just 'eat'.

Many filmmakers I know are shooting films, and delaying release as long as possible - just so when they release on video - they only have to release Blu Ray versions. Not some ugly SD version. The guy who made Transformers is pissed. The studio forced him to release it on HD, when for months, he was bitching at them that BR was the future. They never listened.

r


Isn't that the most frustrating thing in the world, when people don't believe you? I bet he would love to piss all over their faces right about now.
 
What happended to hd dvd is microsoft and bill gates!!! if microsoft added the hd dvd player in the xbox 360 as sony did by adding the blueray player in the ps3.. But instead microsoft a year after the 360 came out decieded to sell it as a sepreate drive for whatever it was 200 or 300 bucks .. Which was so fucking dumb... I think hd dvd could of won if microsoft built the 360 with support to play hd dvd right from the get go. if they did they would of had a year worth of sales on hd dvd movies over the ps3.. Which the ps3 is what really ended the war anyway.. Stupid fucking greedy bill gates... Thats what you get you fuckers
 
hanselthecaretaker said:
Microsoft won't be affected that much by it. They'll just adapt. Its biggest loss will be the detachable HD drive for the Xbox 360, which will likely just be replaced with a BluRay version. That's if they don't just skip it and starting making the Xbox 720 instead.
Besides, it looks like they have their hands full with Yahoo! now.

Check out Michael's rant on this.

http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=595#top

r
 
well might as well get my trifedta of current game systems and get a ps3. luckily i never bought any hd-dvd shit for my 360 or anything for the matter.
 
yeah but blu-ray is CLEARLY superior to HD in terms of everything. This was a no brainer to video geeks.

Just read the porn industry is scrambling, with every producer trying to be the first to get BR content out to the masses. Actresses are going to be busy reshooting films. :)

r
 
Razorguns said:
yeah but blu-ray is CLEARLY superior to HD in terms of everything. This was a no brainer to video geeks.

Just read the porn industry is scrambling, with every producer trying to be the first to get BR content out to the masses. Actresses are going to be busy reshooting films. :)

r

Blu-ray is much harder to code, more expensive, and offers no visual performance difference. Warner really wanted to back HD DVD, but Sony gave them $400 million reasons not to. I repeat, this was not a decision based on the superiority of the Blu-ray format. It was a decision based on back room deals. I'll be suprised if the entire Blu-ray category is greater than $2 billion this year. BD has a long way to go.
 
option 1: the two technologies are deadlocked, people pay 3x more for either player for the next 8 years until hologram drives emerge as the new up and coming technology

option 2: one of the standards wins, prices drop massively, computer geeks get to burn 20 pirated movies to a single disk, 8 years later hologram drives emerge as the new technology of choice

*for both options 1 and 2, 95% of people cant pick the difference between blu ray, hd dvd, and normal dvd anyway, but babble as if they do
 
still going to wait on pricing of dvds & players to come down in a year or so.

i haven't read all the thread pages but will blu-ray even play standard dvd's?
 
Razorguns said:
yeah but blu-ray is CLEARLY superior to HD in terms of everything.

no

hawaiianflash said:
Blu-ray is much harder to code, more expensive, and offers no visual performance difference.

true

GoldenDelicious said:
95% of people cant pick the difference between blu ray, hd dvd, and normal dvd anyway, but babble as if they do

I have an upconvert dvd player and a 1080i tv. It looks as clear as the Bluray in the stores.

This HD crap is mostly for people to "have the latest and greatest" so they run out and buy it. Thru a little research they can have basically the same setup for cheap.

It's all about the $$$ and sadly people follow along.

8and20 said:
i haven't read all the thread pages but will blu-ray even play standard dvd's?

yes and it upconverts them.
 
alien amp pharm said:
I have an upconvert dvd player and a 1080i tv. It looks as clear as the Bluray in the stores.

Have you even SEEN a blu-ray movie next to an upconverted SD movie?

If you said all that above on a geek forum, people would die of laughter.

lol @ 'HD is crap'. Guess i'm editing footage in 720p and the increased storage and resolution is all a mirage to me.

Here, educate yourself:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-13817_7-6462511-1.html
 
i still think its funny that people care so much about wanting to see ultra high definition on movies/shows that frankly suck balls

...no offense or anything :)
 
Razorguns said:
Have you even SEEN a blu-ray movie next to an upconverted SD movie?

If you said all that above on a geek forum, people would die of laughter.

lol @ 'HD is crap'. Guess i'm editing footage in 720p and the increased storage and resolution is all a mirage to me.

Here, educate yourself:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-13817_7-6462511-1.html

The Bluray displays at retail stores are laughable. I was watching one and it showed a scene in a movie with half of it HD and the other half SD. What was so funny was that the HD side looked good while the SD side was (purposely) exaggerated blurry & grainy. It looked 10 times worst than a VHS tape, lol. It was genius because I bet many people fall for it.

Back to the topic....yes there is only a VERY slight difference in picture quality between my upconvert player and a bluray.
Could you tell the difference between a HD-DVD and a BLURAY visually? Probably not.
Did you also know that the majority of HD-DVD players only put out a 1080i signal? <~~~Which also happens to be what my upconvert dvd player displays! OMG!
 
alien amp pharm said:
The Bluray displays at retail stores are laughable. I was watching one and it showed a scene in a movie with half of it HD and the other half SD. What was so funny was that the HD side looked good while the SD side was (purposely) exaggerated blurry & grainy. It looked 10 times worst than a VHS tape, lol. It was genius because I bet many people fall for it.

Back to the topic....yes there is only a VERY slight difference in picture quality between my upconvert player and a bluray.
Could you tell the difference between a HD-DVD and a BLURAY visually? Probably not.
Did you also know that the majority of HD-DVD players only put out a 1080i signal? <~~~Which also happens to be what my upconvert dvd player displays! OMG!

I can FOR SURE tell you the diff between HD and SD, and that's all that matters.

I think all Upconverters only convert up to interlaced. 1080i on cable TV is fine. I have no qualms with the quality I see.

I hate watching SD, it's so irritating now.


r
 
Razorguns said:
I can FOR SURE tell you the diff between HD and SD, and that's all that matters.

I think all Upconverters only convert up to interlaced. 1080i on cable TV is fine. I have no qualms with the quality I see.

I hate watching SD, it's so irritating now.


r

Indeed. :beer:

No doubt there is a huge difference in SD and HD. I also agree there is a difference in 1080i and 1080p, but for me personally that diffference isn't worth $5000 now. (I have 2 bigscreen tv's but only capable of up to 1080i)

I will upgrade one day, but for now my crappy upconvert player will have to do.
 
alien amp pharm said:
Indeed. :beer:

No doubt there is a huge difference in SD and HD. I also agree there is a difference in 1080i and 1080p, but for me personally that diffference isn't worth $5000 now. (I have 2 bigscreen tv's but only capable of up to 1080i)

I will upgrade one day, but for now my crappy upconvert player will have to do.

They still make lcd/plasma's that only show 1080i??

r
 
With my 360, I cant tell the difference between 1080i and 720p.

Which means I probabaly sure as fuck cant tell between 1080i and 1080p.
 
HS Lifter said:
With my 360, I cant tell the difference between 1080i and 720p.

Which means I probabaly sure as fuck cant tell between 1080i and 1080p.

There was a big debate over which was better 720p or 1080i back before 1080p tv's became mainstream. To the human eye there was really no difference visually between the two.

1080p is better than both, obviously, but it's only a minimal difference. There's not even any tv stations showing in 1080p. The only benefit at this moment is viewing DVD's.

RG, I would venture that they still manufacture 1080i/720p tv's. I got my 55" LCD for dirt cheap last year since the new trend is now full HD sets.

I'm predicting a new technology to take over within the next 5 years anyways. They already have different methods in the works which combines all the pros of each tv type into one. I shall wait before going Full HD.
 
alien amp pharm said:
There was a big debate over which was better 720p or 1080i back before 1080p tv's became mainstream. To the human eye there was really no difference visually between the two.

1080p is better than both, obviously, but it's only a minimal difference. There's not even any tv stations showing in 1080p. The only benefit at this moment is viewing DVD's.

RG, I would venture that they still manufacture 1080i/720p tv's. I got my 55" LCD for dirt cheap last year since the new trend is now full HD sets.

I'm predicting a new technology to take over within the next 5 years anyways. They already have different methods in the works which combines all the pros of each tv type into one. I shall wait before going Full HD.

Progressive Scan is a huge benefit for us media providers. Editors who don't have to deal with the annoyance of interlaced video frames (low frame, high frame, etc.). Hence all my output is p. Hence why all digital media comes out in 1080p. Aside from the fact computer screens are progressive. Camera to Computer ingesting becomes seemless.

My friend just shot a film. 1080p. Looks so gorgeous. http://www.ghostmonthmovie.com/

r
 
alien amp pharm said:
The Bluray displays at retail stores are laughable. I was watching one and it showed a scene in a movie with half of it HD and the other half SD. What was so funny was that the HD side looked good while the SD side was (purposely) exaggerated blurry & grainy. It looked 10 times worst than a VHS tape, lol. It was genius because I bet many people fall for it.

Back to the topic....yes there is only a VERY slight difference in picture quality between my upconvert player and a bluray.
Could you tell the difference between a HD-DVD and a BLURAY visually? Probably not.
Did you also know that the majority of HD-DVD players only put out a 1080i signal? <~~~Which also happens to be what my upconvert dvd player displays! OMG!


I watched the BluRay trailer for Disney's Cars and even in 720p it was obviously high def. I actually felt my pupils dilate at the picture's attractiveness. I put my glasses on to make sure and it was slightly clearer yet.
To each their own.
 
Razorguns said:
Progressive Scan is a huge benefit for us media providers. Editors who don't have to deal with the annoyance of interlaced video frames (low frame, high frame, etc.). Hence all my output is p. Hence why all digital media comes out in 1080p. Aside from the fact computer screens are progressive. Camera to Computer ingesting becomes seemless.

My friend just shot a film. 1080p. Looks so gorgeous. http://www.ghostmonthmovie.com/

r


Ughhh Quicktime.
 
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