Bloodwork, take a look (PCT advice needed)

[tical]

I was abrubtly pulled off my cycle of primo (700mg ew) and very low test (125mg sust ew) after about 5 weeks.

I didn't get a chance to run any PCT either... it has been about 6 weeks now & I'm looking to get things back to normal. Any input would be great!

Here are the labs (I bolded the scary stuff):

Testosterone, Serum 112 241-827 ng/dL
Calcium, Serum 9.9 8.5-10.6 mg/dL
Phosphorus, Serum 4 2.5-4.5 mg/dL
Glucose, Serum 83 65-99 mg/dL
BUN 13 5-26 mg/dL
Uric Acid, Serum 5.1 2.4-8.2 mg/dL
Cholesterol, Total 242 100-199 mg/dL
Protein, Total, Serum 7 6.0-8.5 g/dL
Albumin, Serum 4.5 3.5-5.5 g/dL
Bilirubin, Total 1.1 0.1-1.2 mg/dL
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 71 25-150 IU/L
LDH 171 100-250 IU/L
AST (SGOT) 23 0-40 IU/L
Triglycerides 63 0-149 mg/dL
Potassium, Serum 4.4 3.5-5.5 mmol/L
Sodium, Serum 141 135-148 mmol/L
Chloride, Serum 102 96-109 mmol/L
Iron, Serum 171 40-155 ug/dL
Creatinine, Serum 1.4 0.5-1.5 mg/dL
ALT (SGPT) 36 0-55 IU/L
Carbon Dioxide, Total 27 20-32 mmol/L
GGT 25 0-65 IU/L
WBC 4.2 4.0-10.5 x10E3/uL
RBC 5.67 4.10-5.60 x10E6/uL
Hemoglobin 17.9 12.5-17.0 g/dL
Hematocrit 50.7 36.0-50.0 %
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 9 8-27
HDL Cholesterol 48 40-59 mg/dL
LDL/HDL Ratio 3.8 0.0-3.6 ratio units
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 13 5-40 mg/dL
Globulin, Total 2.5 1.5-4.5 g/dL
A/G Ratio 1.8 1.1-2.5
LDL Cholesterol Calc 181 0-99 mg/dL
MCV 89 80-98 fL
MCH 31.6 27.0-34.0 pg
MCHC 35.4 32.0-36.0 g/dL
Neutrophils 56 40-74 %
Lymphs 30 14-46 %
Monocytes 10 4-13 %
Eos 3 0-7 %
Basos 1 0-3 %
Platelets 185 140-415 x10E3/uL
Neutrophils (Absolute) 2.4 1.8-7.8 x10E3/uL
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.3 0.7-4.5 x10E3/uL
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.4 0.1-1.0 x10E3/uL
Eos (Absolute) 0.1 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL
Baso (Absolute) 0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL
T. Chol/HDL Ratio 5 0.0-5.0 ratio units
RDW 14.6 11.7-15.0 %

 

[tical]

back to the top before bed!

 

[Tatyana]

I was abrubtly pulled off my cycle of primo (700mg ew) and very low test (125mg sust ew) after about 5 weeks.

I didn't get a chance to run any PCT either... it has been about 6 weeks now & I'm looking to get things back to normal. Any input would be great!

Here are the labs (I bolded the scary stuff):

Testosterone, Serum 112 241-827 ng/dL 3.88 nmol/L, this is the upper limits of the testosterone for a woman. I would start to do something about this, as I do think low test has psychological effects on men, like depression. Also, just to let you know, measuring test at the lower end is notoriously difficult, so it may not be exactly that low, or it could be a bit lower, but for a man, it is low
Calcium, Serum 9.9 8.5-10.6 mg/dL
Phosphorus, Serum 4 2.5-4.5 mg/dL
Glucose, Serum 83 65-99 mg/dL
BUN 13 5-26 mg/dL
Uric Acid, Serum 5.1 2.4-8.2 mg/dL
Cholesterol, Total 242 100-199 mg/dL It takes 3 months to get your cholesterol levels to shift. I just converted this, and it is 6.26 mmol/L. Anything close to 5 mmol/l is consider acceptable in the UK. I think people freak out too much about cholesterol, it is one risk factor for CVD (cardiovascular disease, not the only one). I would not be surprised if your cholesterol levels dropped back to normal (and your is not all that abnormal) within three months.

Protein, Total, Serum 7 6.0-8.5 g/dL
Albumin, Serum 4.5 3.5-5.5 g/dL
Bilirubin, Total 1.1 0.1-1.2 mg/dL 19 umol/L, near the higher end of normal, but this would be expected with your higher RBC count. Alkaline Phosphatase, S 71 25-150 IU/L

LDH 171 100-250 IU/L (this was a weird thing to be tested for, it is only used as a very rough/general tumour marker in the UK usually, a bit outdated to be used for anything else, just shows the cell turnover rate in the body)

AST (SGOT) 23 0-40 IU/L
Triglycerides 63 0-149 mg/dL
Potassium, Serum 4.4 3.5-5.5 mmol/L
Sodium, Serum 141 135-148 mmol/L
Chloride, Serum 102 96-109 mmol/L
Iron, Serum 171 40-155 ug/dL 30 umol/L, again, I wouldn't worry too much about this, iron overdose is not until 50 umol/L, and really, it is a bit of an outdated test to do this on its own, except in the case of iron poisoning, you would need a transferrin saturation to see anything significant, and that is ususally only done in the case of anaemia, which you do not have

Creatinine, Serum 1.4 0.5-1.5 mg/dL Related to the amount of muscle mass, so higher end of normal is fine.
ALT (SGPT) 36 0-55 IU/L
Carbon Dioxide, Total 27 20-32 mmol/L
GGT 25 0-65 IU/L
WBC 4.2 4.0-10.5 x10E3/uL
RBC 5.67 4.10-5.60 x10E6/uL
Hemoglobin 17.9 12.5-17.0 g/dL
Hematocrit 50.7 36.0-50.0 % None of this is significant at all, slightly higher red blood cells is to be expected in someone who trains, higher RBCs, more haemoglobin. Haemocrit or packed cell volume is just how MUCH RBCs are there, it is a calculation BUN/Creatinine Ratio 9 8-27
HDL Cholesterol 48 40-59 mg/dL HDL is the 'good' cholesterol, so you do want more of this. LDL/HDL Ratio 3.8 0.0-3.6 ratio units A ratio under 4 is acceptable, best ratios are around 2-3, again, I wouldn't be surprised if this improved in 2-3 months off cycle. VLDL Cholesterol Cal 13 5-40 mg/dL
Globulin, Total 2.5 1.5-4.5 g/dL
A/G Ratio 1.8 1.1-2.5
LDL Cholesterol Calc 181 0-99 mg/dL A little high, not out of line, see above comments on cholesterol.
MCV 89 80-98 fL
MCH 31.6 27.0-34.0 pg
MCHC 35.4 32.0-36.0 g/dL
Neutrophils 56 40-74 %
Lymphs 30 14-46 %
Monocytes 10 4-13 %
Eos 3 0-7 %
Basos 1 0-3 %
Platelets 185 140-415 x10E3/uL
Neutrophils (Absolute) 2.4 1.8-7.8 x10E3/uL
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.3 0.7-4.5 x10E3/uL
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.4 0.1-1.0 x10E3/uL
Eos (Absolute) 0.1 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL
Baso (Absolute) 0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL
T. Chol/HDL Ratio 5 0.0-5.0 ratio units
RDW 14.6 11.7-15.0 %

Hope this helps.

In all honesty, that the US is still using antiquated names for liver enzymes, and some of the tests............

If your test levels were that low in the UK, the biomedical scientist and/or clinical biochemist would have added a few other tests like

1. TFT- thyroid function test to see if the low test has a pituitary origin, it will also see if your 'high' cholesterol is a result of hyperthyroidism

2. LH/FSH -lutenising hormone/follical stimulating hormone

LH-acts on testicals to stimulate test release

FSH-stimulates spermatogenesis, along with testosterone

These gonadotrophins are used to determine where the suppression of testosterone lies, and, it would also be a better indication of how suppressed the HPT -hypothalmic-pituitary-testicular axis is.

I would wait awhile before getting tested again, but I would insist on test with LH/FSH.

I am sure the lads will give you better advice than I on getting your gonads back into action though.

 

[Tatyana]

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/steroids-discussion-forum/users-don-t-feel-great-cycle-576023.html

 

[Mavafanculo]

I. the increased red blood cell numbers (rbc, hematocrit, hemoglobin) are all as a result of the erythropoetic effect that all steroids have to one degree or another. this will self correct as the excess hormones leave your system and your existing red cells are destroyed and replenished in the normal course.

II. the (presumably) temporarily degraded lipid numbers (high ldl, low-end hdl) are a known side effect of a.a.s. - they will also self correct, but there's much you can do to speed the process and protect yourself as this occurs:

1) policosanol 20mg evening (+hdl, -ldl, blood thinner also, which is useful in your case as thicker blood and crappy lipid numbers arent a good combo)
2) garlic - cardiac formula dose of garlique or garlicin etc (acts as a substitute/super hdl, clearing ldl and reducing new plaque formation - also a blood thinner)
3) inositol hexanicotinate (noflush niacin) - (one of the few substances to raise hdl)
4) red yeast extract - a natural form of lovastatin, the same ingredient found in prescription stain drugs - (- ldl)
5) psyllium seed husk products/ hi fiber diet (-ldl )
6) diet high in unsaturated fats ("good fats" from vegetbles) mostly monostaurated fats which will raise hdl (olive oil, peanut oils, walnuts etc)
7) cardio, 30 minutes 3x weekly - even brisk walk - (increases hdl)
8) obviously a diet low in "bad fats" (saturated fats- meat and diary, and trans fats)
9) Fish Oil supplements or fish (better balanced than omega-3 pills) reduce risk of CV event and plaque formation .

III. as to the low test numbers, search on PCT in this forum, or check out the PCT forum for lots of threads on the topic.

-

 

[access]

Wow..great advice here!

 

[access]

Tat does look shredded in that new avi...

 

[Tatyana]

Tat does look shredded in that new avi...

My avvie is an old comp pic, my more current condition is in my training log in the women's section.

 

[Acela]

its feedback like this that makes you overlook all of the bullshit threads/replies that have been coming lately...

 

[bsdgeek]

yep, check out AR's PCT. BTW, how old are you?? with that bloodwork, I'd try to get on HRT, doesn't mean you have to use the test, but you'd have a script so you'd be legal, and if you have insurance, a 10 ml vial should run you about $4-$15. Just an idea. dat's my 2.

 

[tical]

i picked up this test w/ my own $ for around $150 online..

i was hoping to bring it to my doc to get more thorough bloodwork with all of the goodies (estrogen, prolactin, ls/fsh, etc) under my insurance just because if i would do it it woudl run me over $1000

thanks for the input though guys, i really appreciate it

bsdgeek, if i was going to go for HRT should i start at my regular doctor or a specialist? just so that i dont get the run around having to make new appointments i might as well make one exactly where i need to go

anyone know a good doc for this in vegas?

 

[access]

Your own doc can certainly prescribe Test for you. Talk to him about it. Your test levels certainly warrant it.

 

[bsdgeek]

i picked up this test w/ my own $ for around $150 online..

i was hoping to bring it to my doc to get more thorough bloodwork with all of the goodies (estrogen, prolactin, ls/fsh, etc) under my insurance just because if i would do it it woudl run me over $1000

thanks for the input though guys, i really appreciate it

bsdgeek, if i was going to go for HRT should i start at my regular doctor or a specialist? just so that i dont get the run around having to make new appointments i might as well make one exactly where i need to go

anyone know a good doc for this in vegas?

yeah, if your reg. doc prescribes to hrt treatment, then go to him, if not, find another doc. my doc may, but i know another one that does at the blink of an eye, so, next time i try it(test levels weren't low enough last time), i'll go to that one. just make sure you research the doc, ask a few guys that may be on hrt from around your area. a lot of the guys who use in several of the gyms i work at, all know of this one doc, and they highly recommend him. i'm sure there's one in your area, there always is. he may make you go and get bloodwork again though, if he does, show him your current bloodwork, and tell him they you've been trying a 'test-booster' but it's still not making you feel better or something like that, this will help in case your bloodwork does come back ok, then he'll think you need some assistance with test elevation. jus my 2.

 

[Mavafanculo]

if i was going to go for HRT should i start at my regular doctor or a specialist? just so that i dont get the run around having to make new appointments i might as well make one exactly where i need to go

anyone know a good doc for this in vegas?

in your case, you're more likely to get prescribed HRT if you go to a regular doc who doesnt know too much lol.

a specialist will run additional lab work and tests to determine if your low test levels are due to primary (disorder of the nads) or secondaray (disorder of the hypothalmus/pituitary) hypogonadism. he'll likely find you have low levels of LH and FSH (secondary hypogonadism) leading to a second round of tests and alot of questions etc etc etc

a regular doc will more llikely write a script for test.

but as mentioned above ask around for references in your area first -

 

[tical]

thanks guys, there was a thread here by someone a while back that listed every test we should order when getting bloodwork done

anyone have the link to that thread? my doc says she'll give me this test at any time i want it

 

[hehateme000]

yea i want that link too

 

[tical]

bump, anyone got it?