Bloodwork is back - need some help!

[njmuscleguy]

Hey folks... just got my bloodwork back, I have a few questions...first a quick background... finished a 10-week cycle of deca and test enth back in mid-December... after 2 weeks, started PCT of 3 weeks HCG (1500 iu, 3xs a week for 3 weeks) and Nolvadex for 6 weeks.... so it's been 3 months since my last shot... and 1 month since I finished PCT

The only values out of range were:

Hemoglobin: 17.4 (Ref: 13.2 - 17.1 g/dL)
HDL Cholesterol: 36 (Ref: >/=40 mg/dL)
Cholesterol / HDL Ratio: 5.2 (Ref: <5.0)

Neutrophils, absolute: 1449 (Ref: 1500 - 7800 Cells/McL) - what is this?

I'm more concerned about my test levels... VERY low:

LH: <0.7 (Ref: 1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL)
FSH <0.7 (Ref: 1.6 - 8.0 mIU/mL)

Total Test: 152 (Ref: 260-1000 ng/dL)
Test, %Free: 1.2 (Ref: 1.0 - 2.7%)
Test Free: 17.8 (Ref: 50.0 - 210.0 pg/mL)

Now, my test levels have always been on the lower end of the normal range - always had problems with fatigue, etc because of it... any recommendations as to what I should do at this point? Should I run another PCT? If so, what should I run? HCG & Nolva again? and An AI?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Triple J]

ya run another PCT

these stories ALWAYS involve deca

 

[Zuperman]

Deca does this?? More info please? How about EQ does it do this too?

 

[cyrex]

what will nolva do for getting natty test levels back up?

use clomid and HCG . . .

 

[njmuscleguy]

what will nolva do for getting natty test levels back up?

use clomid and HCG . . .

not sure? why would clomid do it and not nolvadex? and I'm hoping not to have to use clomid because of the sides.... I also remember reading on here that using an anti-estrogen or AI will help bring up natural test levels - is this true?

 

[cyrex]

Clomid is a gonadotropic stimulant
Nolvadex is just an anti-estrogen

Your problem doesn't seem to be too much estrogenic effects, but that your nuts are working fully steam yet

Clomid and HCG will help that
Nolva will prevent gyno and reduce bloat which I don't think is an issue here

Your PCT should really include CLOMID a cycle like that

 

[njmuscleguy]

Clomid is a gonadotropic stimulant
Nolvadex is just an anti-estrogen

Your problem doesn't seem to be too much estrogenic effects, but that your nuts are working fully steam yet

Clomid and HCG will help that
Nolva will prevent gyno and reduce bloat which I don't think is an issue here

Your PCT should really include CLOMID a cycle like that

yah, you're right... I should know that by now... guess I'm not thinking straight....

and yes, gyno and bloat aren't issues....
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to cyrex again.

 

[njmuscleguy]

any suggestion on dosages? HCG (1500 iu 3x's week for 3 weeks)

How much for clomid and how long?

 

[cyrex]

I really am just a student of the game here. I try to share what I've learned and spread the knowledge. But from what I've read you may want to go this route:

200mg Clomid Day 1
100 mg rest of wk 1
50mg for 3 more weeks

1500 iu 3x/wk for 3 weeks sounds right maybe??
I'm not anywhere near as keen on HCG as Clomid but then again I'm not positive about the clomid dosage since I haven't read much about 2nd round PCT or if it should differe at all or not..

 

[nuthnbutfords]

Dude, I just had a HUGE thread about this. LOL. I'm currently am having the EXACT same problem. I did a massive amount of research. Clomid can be used, but only @ massive doeses (150mg/day) Nolvadex will work fine. People who say different dont' know what they are talking about. BTW, my test levels were 169, and thats after pct #1.

Here is the link to answer all of your questions.

http://www.breadyproducts.com/bogsecabhboo.html

 

[doogle]

people go over the top with clomid200mg is to high,take 100mg for aweek at the most,then 50mg to finish.youll see no sides.i did a thread on this and got all the info,take clomid after hcg good luck

 

[cyrex]

people go over the top with clomid200mg is to high,take 100mg for aweek at the most,then 50mg to finish.youll see no sides.i did a thread on this and got all the info,take clomid after hcg good luck

WRONG sides are highly dependant on the individual. You may experience sides, you may not

 

[njmuscleguy]

Dude, I just had a HUGE thread about this. LOL. I'm currently am having the EXACT same problem. I did a massive amount of research. Clomid can be used, but only @ massive doeses (150mg/day) Nolvadex will work fine. People who say different dont' know what they are talking about. BTW, my test levels were 169, and thats after pct #1.

Here is the link to answer all of your questions.

http://www.breadyproducts.com/bogsecabhboo.html

hey bro - that link is for bobcat dozers and john deers *grin*

so are you doing PCT #2? clomid and hcg? is it working?

I actually found your post.... 2500 iu HCG every 4th day + 100 mg Clomid per day for 32 days... if that doesn't work, double the HCG? this all sounds like ALOT... especially knowing that too much HCG can have the opposite effect desired if taken in large quantities....and clomid, that's just begging for heavy side effects.... where did you find this info?

 

[wootool]

what will nolva do for getting natty test levels back up?

use clomid and HCG . . .

both nolva and clomid raise LH (-> natty test) by inhibiting the estrogen negative feedback loop at the hypothalmus. or something.

If memory serves, nelson montana and william llewellyn are 2 high profile proponents of using nolva instead of clomid for PCT to avoid the visual and emotional clomid sides.

-

 

[wootoom]

wootool is the best guy on the board

 

[wootool]

wootool is the best guy on the board

ololoololololollooollol!

 

[njmuscleguy]

both nolva and clomid raise LH (-> natty test) by inhibiting the estrogen negative feedback loop at the hypothalmus. or something.

If memory serves, nelson montana and william llewellyn are 2 high profile proponents of using nolva instead of clomid for PCT to avoid the visual and emotional clomid sides.

-

I definitely prefer nolvadex over clomid... but the problem is, the first round of PCT using HCG and Nolvadex didn't work...so the question is, what should I do the second time around?

 

[geoboy]

I definitely prefer nolvadex over clomid... but the problem is, the first round of PCT using HCG and Nolvadex didn't work...so the question is, what should I do the second time around?

Bro, you're asking a clown with a penis nose and a condom on his head for medical advice?

-

 

[nuthnbutfords]

Oh fuck. Dude, i'm sorry bro. Here is the link. My other suggestion was wrong on the 2500, every 4th day or whatever i put. Here is the CORRECT LINK.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/post-cycle-therapy.htm

Sorry, was in a hurry!

 

[Makavelli]

Any time you use a nandrolone, like deca and tren, you need to run HCG. I would run HCG, clomid, nolvadex, and an AI while you're on the HCG.

 

[say111]

HCG 5000IU, 5 days later HCG 5000IU, 3 days later HCG 3000IU, then 3 days later HCG 1500IU. the day of your last inj. start nolva 40mg for 2 weeks and clomid 100mg for two weeks, then go down to nolva 20 mg and clomid 50mg for 2 more weeks. this should remedy your problem.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Any time you use a nandrolone, like deca and tren, you need to run HCG. I would run HCG, clomid, nolvadex, and an AI while you're on the HCG.

I did run HCG and nolvadex... 3 & 6 weeks respectively... didn't run clomid because a) I had bad sides from it the first time I tried it and b) it seemed that HCG and Nolvadex is the generally accepted PCT... didn't seem to work for me, so I have to go a second round... so I was wondering if I should do the same as the first round or try something different... I seem to be getting alot of different responses

 

[cyrex]

I did run HCG and nolvadex... 3 & 6 weeks respectively... didn't run clomid because a) I had bad sides from it the first time I tried it and b) it seemed that HCG and Nolvadex is the generally accepted PCT... didn't seem to work for me, so I have to go a second round... so I was wondering if I should do the same as the first round or try something different... I seem to be getting alot of different responses

well if nolva didn't work the first time

try all 3 this time

 

[Quiltie]

That Anthony Roberts article seems to be pretty well-researched, I would probably stick to the advice that he gives in it. Might be that the last PCT that you did was too soon, or not long enough, or not the right amounts, or some other kind of f*cked up that it just didn't work. I'd run Ye Olde "300IU's HCG MWF with Nolva 20mg ED" for a few weeks and see where you end up, but that's just me.

 

[nuthnbutfords]

That Anthony Roberts article seems to be pretty well-researched, I would probably stick to the advice that he gives in it. Might be that the last PCT that you did was too soon, or not long enough, or not the right amounts, or some other kind of f*cked up that it just didn't work. I'd run Ye Olde "300IU's HCG MWF with Nolva 20mg ED" for a few weeks and see where you end up, but that's just me.

That's what i'm say'n. I'm going through the exact same problem, and am currently running Anthony's pct.

 

[njmuscleguy]

That's what i'm say'n. I'm going through the exact same problem, and am currently running Anthony's pct.

well, I pretty much ran that PCT the first time around (was actually a little more HCG than what he recommends)... let me know how your second round goes for you

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Can I get a full copy of the bloodwork? I'm curious about some other stuff....

 

[njmuscleguy]

Can I get a full copy of the bloodwork? I'm curious about some other stuff....

I can send you a copy.... but just to let you know, my doctor didn't run a very thorough bloodwork... so there's probably stuff missing... what exactly were you curious about?

 

[bigrand]

your neutrophils are low (neutropenia) (WBC). not good, immunosupression.

 

[njmuscleguy]

your neutrophils are low (neutropenia) (WBC). not good, immunosupression.

I don't know anything aobut neutrophils... my WBC count seems to be within range however 4.6 (Ref: 3.8 - 10.8)

I also just got over having bronchitis shortly before the blood was taken... could that affect it?

Is there something I can / need to do about this?

 

[njmuscleguy]

So I was thinking where my last PCT went wrong... and the only thing I'm wondering is if 1) I waited too long to start PCT and 2) I ran too much HCG

1) I was under the impression that you should wait 10-14 days for long-acting esters (deca & test) to clear your body first... I've also read different views that you should wait no more than 5 days or even start immediately upon finishing the cycle

2) 1500 iu HCG, 3x's a week for 3 weeks... is this too much? Also been reading to do 500iu every day for 2-3 weeks.... is this a case where too much HCG further inhibited my body from producing its own test?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[pursuit]

Yeah I think thats about right.

Your problem is you have secondary hypogondism, that is, your balls are primed from the HCG but they are not getting the signal from from brain to produce i.e your LH levels are WAY too low.

This is probably because you ran the HCG too late. It will shut down your LH production. So basically you were ON for 15+ weeks. The point is to take HCG while the esters are still in your system (because at that point you are shut down anyway)

So yes, your LH levels are very low. The only thing that will cure this is an anti-estrogen ie Nolvadex.

But just to be sure your balls are plumped and primed do 2 more weeks of HCG ...1000ius MWF, along with 20mg of Nolvadex.

After this continue taking the Nolvadex at 20mg a day for 6 weeks, or even longer. The longer you take Nolvadex the more you'll shoot those LH levels up.

Get tested again about a month after. If your LH levels are still low after this... HRT my man!