BJJ and weight training (or any MA actually)

[reddy]

Just curious to know how you guys work your training into your split...I'm on a 4x wk weight program and BJJ training 2x wk and feel as if im over training. I keep getting unbearable pain in my shoulder...

currently:
m-chest and bis
t-bjj
w-bk and tris
th-legs
fri-shoulders
sat-bjj
sun-OFF

i've been thinking about a three day weightlifting split instead:
m-chest and arms
t-bjj
w-legs
thurs-bk and shoulders
fri-OFF
sat-bjj
sun-OFF

 

[Skibum77]

I have been training in Muai Thai for about a month so far and i have found it difficult in the beginning to balance between the two but now i'm alright. I train Maui 3x and week and lift 5x a week. I would just make sure that your leg workout day and your classes are spread apart by a few days. Other than that just take it easy on the shoulder and as it feels better slowly progress yourself back in the gym.
good luck

 

[Thaibox]

Don't do back anywhere near legs because you should be doing deads on back day, and squats on leg day. They will conflict. Look into a powerlifting or Oly routine...cleans, deads...etc. Check out westside training also. Training will really conflict with lifting, so keep the lifting volume really low and the intensity really high.

And watch that shoulder dude. A shoulder injury can shut you down for a long time if you aren't careful. The first and only time I benched 405 I jacked my right shoulder and now I can't flat bench 135. The injury was a year ago. I know guys that hurt their rotators so bad they couldn't pick their nose for 6 months. Imagine trying to fight like that.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Thai, did you have any warning of a rotator injury? Like, did you have pain which you just ignored for awhile?

Because honestly, I don't want to risk screwing up my cuffs like that.

 

[reddy]

Don't do back anywhere near legs because you should be doing deads on back day, and squats on leg day. They will conflict. Look into a powerlifting or Oly routine...cleans, deads...etc. Check out westside training also. Training will really conflict with lifting, so keep the lifting volume really low and the intensity really high.

And watch that shoulder dude. A shoulder injury can shut you down for a long time if you aren't careful. The first and only time I benched 405 I jacked my right shoulder and now I can't flat bench 135. The injury was a year ago. I know guys that hurt their rotators so bad they couldn't pick their nose for 6 months. Imagine trying to fight like that.

i do deads on leg day. when i say back i mean lats and upper back, not the lower back. The lower back only comes into play minorly (stabllilizes). Why would you do dead lifts with your upper back?

 

[Thaibox]

Thai, did you have any warning of a rotator injury? Like, did you have pain which you just ignored for awhile?

Because honestly, I don't want to risk screwing up my cuffs like that.

Yeah, I knew it was coming on. I was nursing it just a little for a month or so before. But, it was a great day, I felt great, and my buddies were talking shit that I couldn't put up four plates, so like a dipshit, I did it. Total dumbass move. Then I felt so good after I benched the 4 plates, I ignored the pain and continued my chest day. That night, and the next day I knew I fucked up bad

 

[Thaibox]

i do deads on leg day. when i say back i mean lats and upper back, not the lower back. The lower back only comes into play minorly (stabllilizes). Why would you do dead lifts with your upper back?

Because Deadlifts are for back bro. Deads will nail everything from your lower erectors up to your lats and traps hard.

Some people do them on leg day, but if you choose to do this, never do back anywhere near leg day.

 

[reddy]

Because Deadlifts are for back bro. Deads will nail everything from your lower erectors up to your lats and traps hard.

Some people do them on leg day, but if you choose to do this, never do back anywhere near leg day.

bro deadlifts shouldnt hit your traps "hard" and your lats at all. the primary muscles should be the glutes, hams (bicep femoris, semitendinosus, semimembranosus...) and erector spinae. Yes you the traps will be used, but not the lats. The traps and your rhomboid only maintain the shoulders and bar in position. WHen most people say "back" in a workout split they're refering to the lats.

back before legs works for the big mr o ronnie coleman. and the majority of pros toss the lower back in there with their leg days...
There is nothing wrong with doing your lats on day one and your legs and lower back on day two.

If your lats are getting hit "hard" on deadlifts, youre doing them wrong...

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Just assuming, but wasn't Ronnie juiced as most of those guys were? If so, that could be the reason for his ability to train so heavily.

 

[Thaibox]

bro deadlifts shouldnt hit your traps "hard" and your lats at all. the primary muscles should be the glutes, hams (bicep femoris, semitendinosus, semimembranosus...) and erector spinae. Yes you the traps will be used, but not the lats. The traps and your rhomboid only maintain the shoulders and bar in position. WHen most people say "back" in a workout split they're refering to the lats.

back before legs works for the big mr o ronnie coleman. and the majority of pros toss the lower back in there with their leg days...
There is nothing wrong with doing your lats on day one and your legs and lower back on day two.

If your lats are getting hit "hard" on deadlifts, youre doing them wrong...

If you're talking about stiff-legged deads, I agree. However, I'm assuming we're talking conventional deads since you didn't say SL, therefore...nope.

But hey, whatever works for you. Following pros' workout routines have been the downfall of many inexperienced people. Doing so is foolish.

If someone refers to only lats when they say back, they aren't much of a lifter.

Anyway, do what you want, but I'm going to write this for anyone else that may want to build a big strong back. If you choose to do deads on leg day....DO NOT do back the day prior or after.

 

[reddy]

thaibox, lets make sure we keep this on a freindly level.... just to make sure i understand you. Are you saying that Deadlifts "hit your lats hard"? I strongly disagree, and have actually never heard anyone even suggest this. Traditional or Sumo lifts...

Im saying that the lower back musles and the upper back muscles are independent of eachother and that they can be worked out on succesive days.

 

[Thaibox]

If that sounded unfriendly I apologize, it wasn't meant to be.

I didn't say that deads hit the "lats hard," I said they hit the lats...and they hit the traps hard. They do hit the lats however.

As in this photo of Henderson Thorne, you can clearly see the dominant features of his back are full traps and erectors like stone pillars. These are what get nailed by deads like no other lift can. Sure, for lats specifically, there are lifts better served to isolate them such as chins. But, chins and pulls should only follow deads as an ancillary lift. The mechanics of heavy deadlifts force you to incorporate all the back muscles.

I promise you bro, if you focus on deads for a day and hit them as hard as possible, your entire back will be sore as hell the next day. You will not be able to row, chin or shrug the next day. My back(including high lats) sucked until I started deadlifting heavy. My lats finally dropped down to a normal spot, my traps pokes through my shirts, and my erectors look like granite.

I truly believe that conventional deads have no place in a leg day. Deadlifts are such an intense heavily compound movement that taxes your cns so much that you CANNOT squat to an effective degree on the same day.

My point being that deadlifts and squats are the 2 most valuable lifts to any builder, period. Doing them on the same day is simply counterproductive.

Make a thread on the training board asking whether to do deads on leg day or back day. Then research it for yourself further, and hopefully you will change your theory. You will be happy when you change your lifts to accomodate this and watch your whole back grow, not to mention your legs because your squats will go up. Good luck