bill star glenn pendley 5x5 periodized version template

[hereforadvice]

thanks for the feedback. i felt like 2.5kg increase weekly in squats is just right, bigger jumps seem to detroy the progress

with bench i'm thinking of using 1kg increases since i plateaud so fast with 2.5kg increases in the past

 

[_cato_]

That should be fine.

The baseline people should shoot for as a sustainable number is about ~2.5% increases a week on the lifts. Since people who have trained the lifts before can typically squat/deadlift more than they bench, this tends to equate to 5 to 10 pound increases on the lower body lifts and 2 to 5 pound increases on bench/overhead press. In kg, that's roughly 2.5kg-5kg and 1kg-2.5kg respectively, to give you an idea.

As people get stronger, at some point they will need to reduce the jumps to smaller and smaller increments, using microplates, to keep making progress.

 

[hereforadvice]

hey guys, thanks for the great feedback so far. i really appreciate it.


got another question tho...


I finished the "volume phase" of this program 2 weeks ago. I had stretched it out by a few weeks so I could use 2.5kg weekly increases in the squat.

It all went great. At the last week of the "volume phase" I did 5x5x150kg on squats on monday

and I got out a solid (felt i could do one more) 5x160kg on friday (the last day of the "volume phase")

then I started the "deloading and intensification phase" last week, I used the weights I finished with the week earlier, but now had to do fewer reps and sets with them so this should be easier

on last monday i then started with 3x3x150kg squat for the first day of the second phase of this program

as the program says, the wednesday light squats were left out and then on friday i planned to do 3x160, which should have been easy considering how great the 5x160 went the week earlier at the last volume phase workout

surprise, i could barely get two reps out. i apparently got weaker from going "light" on monday like the program told me to do and cutting out the wednesday workout

thinking this could have been an off day i decided to go through with the program as planned.

this monday i did 3x3x152.5kg (i usually work with 2.5kg weekly increases in squats)

again, no squats on wednesday

decided to go through with trying 3x165kg squat today which should have been possible since it is lighter than the 5x160kg which i pulled off pretty well two fridays earlier (again assuming the previous friday failure was an "bad day" and not the fault of the "deloading and intensification phase")

well, i could barely get up with the second rep, my spotter had to help slightly so i racked it


now i'm thinking, wtf went wrong i was so strong the last friday of the volume phase and after that my leg strength went to crap, even tho my rest and nutrition have remained good/the same

I can't but conclude the "deloading and intensification phase" switch was a bad idea

considering quitting it and trying to pick up where i left off with the volume phase and continue this

"5x5 squats on monday

5x5 light squats on wednesday

1x5 squats on friday"

method of the volume phase

i feel like the 5x5 on monday is such hard work that by friday i have gotten stronger. and the wednesday light squats also seemed to make me stronger


so should i just go with my instincts and resume the volume phase method where i left off? (maybe if i did actually get weaker i have to decrease the weight somewhat compared to my last "volume phase" week weights)


sorry for this wall of text, but you guys are my only hope for insightful comments. my gym is full of roiding idiots who are clueless


thanks in advance

 

[_cato_]

Interesting. So, just to be clear, you did:

M-150x5x5
F-160x5
M-150x3x3
F-160x2
M-152.5x3x3
F-165x1 (failed on 2)

First, why are you bumping up so much on the Friday workouts compared to the Monday (ie +2.5kg vs 5kg).

Couple possibilities. Could be that you had two bad days. Conversely, could be that your 160x5 day was just a really good day. Could be psychological, in that you just weren't pushing yourself as hard because of the lightened Monday load. Could be that 165kg is just nearing your actual max. Could be that outside the gym factors somehow contributed (stress/food/sleep/increased out of gym activity). Are you losing/have you lost any weight over this time period?

It's usually easier to increase your work capacity than it is to increase your 1RM. So most people can do let's say 85%-90% of their 5x5 rep max for 1x5. You're up around 94%. So you may have hit a point where you are still able to make progress on your volume day, which is increasing your work capacity, but you are too near to your 5RM to continue progressing at the rate you are trying to on Friday.

My inclination is that it's some kind of mental barrier. It's odd that you are still hitting your volume day no problem, but having such huge problems on your intensity day. Because of that, it seems very unlikely that you're having any sort of overtraining/overreaching type problem.

The other strong possibility, as you said, is that the Monday workout isn't enough of a stimulus for you to gain strength right now. Still this would be odd because you are doing such a high percentage of your 3 or 5 rep max. If that is the problem, you'd be better served by dropping the intensification phase. This is one example of why the program shouldn't always be followed to the T, some people just don't need a deload phase (which even the "peaking/intensification" phase technically is, since the load is reduced).

Your options at this point are to either finish out the 9 weeks and see what happens, or I'd advise that instead of trying to pick back up into the volume phase, it might make sense to just start a new mesocycle. Ie. Reset your weights and go to a new volume phase starting at 80% and ramp back up. If you take the latter approach and then ramp back up and get stuck again at about 160, then you'll know for sure it's some kind of mental barrier.

 

[hereforadvice]

Interesting. So, just to be clear, you did:

M-150x5x5
F-160x5
M-150x3x3
F-160x2
M-152.5x3x3
F-165x1 (failed on 2)

First, why are you bumping up so much on the Friday workouts compared to the Monday (ie +2.5kg vs 5kg).

Couple possibilities. Could be that you had two bad days. Conversely, could be that your 160x5 day was just a really good day. Could be psychological, in that you just weren't pushing yourself as hard because of the lightened Monday load. Could be that 165kg is just nearing your actual max. Could be that outside the gym factors somehow contributed (stress/food/sleep/increased out of gym activity). Are you losing/have you lost any weight over this time period?

It's usually easier to increase your work capacity than it is to increase your 1RM. So most people can do let's say 85%-90% of their 5x5 rep max for 1x5. You're up around 94%. So you may have hit a point where you are still able to make progress on your volume day, which is increasing your work capacity, but you are too near to your 5RM to continue progressing at the rate you are trying to on Friday.

My inclination is that it's some kind of mental barrier. It's odd that you are still hitting your volume day no problem, but having such huge problems on your intensity day. Because of that, it seems very unlikely that you're having any sort of overtraining/overreaching type problem.

The other strong possibility, as you said, is that the Monday workout isn't enough of a stimulus for you to gain strength right now. Still this would be odd because you are doing such a high percentage of your 3 or 5 rep max. If that is the problem, you'd be better served by dropping the intensification phase. This is one example of why the program shouldn't always be followed to the T, some people just don't need a deload phase (which even the "peaking/intensification" phase technically is, since the load is reduced).

Your options at this point are to either finish out the 9 weeks and see what happens, or I'd advise that instead of trying to pick back up into the volume phase, it might make sense to just start a new mesocycle. Ie. Reset your weights and go to a new volume phase starting at 80% and ramp back up. If you take the latter approach and then ramp back up and get stuck again at about 160, then you'll know for sure it's some kind of mental barrier.

Hey cato,

didn't get the chance to read this before my monday's workout. I decided to repeat my last volume phase monday workout (5x5x150kg) which was very hard the first time I did it. While it was hard now as well, I pulled it off surprisingly well especially considering it was a morning workout (late shift at work this week), so I definitely consider this a good workout (I normally don't do well in the mornings). I will basically repeat that whole "last week of volume" week and find out on monday if it is the training or other factors that made me weaker (if i can do 5-6 reps with 160kg on friday i'll know the volume phase is making me strong, the intensification phase is making me weak)

You have a point I may have screwed up by taking too big a jump all of the sudden. I missed the 2rd rep on the 160, then the next week I actually increased by a full 5kg hoping to pull it off. This was just me thinking theoretically I need to be able to do this (considering the previous friday was a bad day) and if I do anything less than what I can do I will actually get weaker.

Bad move obviously. Seems like I really need to stick to small increases no matter what.

So now that this 5x5x150kg repeat went pretty good I'm tempted to prolong the volume phase, is this a good idea or not?

By the way yes I seem to have lost 1-2kg of bodyweight the last month or so even tho my nutrition is pretty good. I am probably eating less junk food on the side which leads to less calories intake.

My bodyweight this morning was 84.4kg (height 182cm), I'll try to get it up again but not at the cost of mindlessly adding bodyfat. I think the heighest my bodyweight has been recently was 86.5kg in the morning, but that must have been a lot of bloat too, because it would quickly drop to 85 if I ate slightly less for only a day or two

I definitely don't think nutrition is the issue in all of this but of course over the long term can't expect to get truly strong at this bodyweight I guess


Seems like for squat strength I'm responding well to this volume system, bench is responding well to the actual switch from volume to intensity phase (maybe odd since my squat is much more advanced than mybench, from all the olympic lifting etc i did)

will update after friday's workout, then we can actually conclude the training is causing this or diet/rest


much appreciated feedback

 

[_cato_]

Since you already went back to a volume phase with the squats, may as well continue down that path now and see how it goes.

In future cycles, it might be worth, for example, just loading squats with 5x5 for as many weeks as you can make gains, deload to ~80%, and repeat. In other words, skip the intensity phase entirely.

Conversely, since you're saying your bench is responding well to the 3x3, it would make sense to stick more toward the written program, ie 5-6 weeks of volume followed by 4-5 weeks of intensity or something along those lines. Perhaps even loading with 8 sets of 3 might work well for your bench.

There's no reason you need to handle all of your lifts exactly the same, particularly if they respond differently to different rep ranges or loading protocols. Along the same lines, there's no need that all your lifts need to be deloaded all at once or be at the same intensity at the same time.

Also, I raised the weight loss issue because the weight loss itself may be contributing to some reduced strength. It's always difficult at best to continue increasing in strength when losing weight at the same time.

 

[hereforadvice]

just finished my friday workout (morning workout again)

i'm pretty baffled, i could only get 2 reps out with 160kg again....

this just blows my mind considering i did 5x5x150kg on monday morning pretty well and i've been resting and eating properly all week (even regained some weight)

did 5x5x100kg front squat on wednesday, just like i did that week where i did 5x160kg

one excuse i can come up with is that i generally am weak in the morning for some reason (like my nervous system is sleepy or how do i put it)

but that's a bad excuse since monday was a morning workout as well.


oh crap well next week i have the morning shift again so i can workout in the afternoon-evening

i will just try 5x5x152.5kg on monday and try 5x160kg AGAIN on friday

seems to be some curse on my squat progression, i dont think it's psychological since this morning i was sooo mad after only getting 2 reps i overflowed with frustration and tried again and only got a single, so it's pretty much a strength problem

i'm just going to focus on increasing my 5x5 sets i guess, that should help build muscle mass as well which should lead to strength gains

on the positive side my bench press i progressing as well as my assistance exercises such as dips. did 8x50kg on dips today which felt good


good weeken to all

 

[_cato_]

You don't need to be too concerned if you aren't making gains EVERY week, week in and week out. As long as you're progressing over time, that's the key. Obviously you can't make weekly gains forever. Try to remain encouraged by your Monday progress.

I will say that for whatever reason, that's pretty crazy that you are able to do nearly 94% of your "2 rep max" for 5x5 reps...lol. Again, my first instinct is that your Monday workout is too intense to recover from enough in time to do well on Friday, but you already tried reducing it to 3x3 and you had the exact same result.

Another option you could use, for now, is to just go for 2 rep max's on your Friday workouts, for the remainder of your cycle. So next week try to hit 162.5x2 and go from there. There's nothing that requires going for a 5 rep max on Fridays on this program, it's just as good to go for 1, 2, or 3 rep maxes on Friday (or even rotate between them all). It's just very odd that you keep getting stuck exactly on 160x2.

 

[hereforadvice]

smallupdate

last monday: 5x5x 152,5kg
wednesday: 3x5x 100kg front squat
friday: 5x160kg

alright, i'm back on track! so no i know for a fact it was the change in training not anything else because i actuall got only 5-6 hours of sleep per night last week because i had to get up at 4:45am every day and couldn't fall asleep early


a general question here which i'm not sure is true or anything:

if you only do back squats and not front squats will you get an uglier shape in your legs? like less teardrop, more weird lumpy look on the side of the legs? i've also heard this is caused by low bar parallel squatting because that doesn't activate the quads as much

just wondering if there is any truth to all this or if it's just "bro science"