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BIG BIs and BIG Tris..Needsize? Bigho? Buehler...

JKurz1

Banned
Arms are the one bodypart that I can't get motivated to train...........don't know what it is, but I just don't get the pump, nor do I feel I can ever get the intensity high enough.........looking for suggestions and routines to be posted.............I do:

TRIS:
Close Grip (sometimes on the SMith to really tuck the elbows, relieve wrist tension, etc.....) x 4
Skull crushers (lying on the floor) x 4
Pushdowns x 3
Dbell O/H Press x 2
Kickbacks x 2

= 15 sets

BIS:
Either str8 bar or standing Dbell curls x4
Incline curls x 3
Preacher x 3
Hammer curls x 3
Isolation dbell x 2

= 15 sets
Finish with 2 sets of dips, concentrating on near lock-out...(instead of deepness, per chest)
 
I like training arms. Ive had to really blast them to off set the longness of them. Right now Im at 19.5 cold and I could use another 2.5 inches. I started training tris first and I really have seen a differance in the overall development of my arm.

Here is the routine I use:

Tris
close grip bench 4x8-10@225
skull crushers 4x10@120
Dbell O/H Press 4x8@100
v bar cable pressdowns superset with db lying skull crushers 3x8 all 3 sets are done to failure but I can only useually get 8-10 becauce I go heavy as I can.

Bis
bb curl 5x10
95lb warm up
115 for 10
135 for 10
145 for 10
155 for as many as I can with ok form useually 8

preacher curl superset with seated db curls.4x8 preacher@110 and db@50lb

incline db curls 4x10@50lb dbs

hammer curls 4 sets of running the rack. Start at 30 for 10 to 40 to 50 to 60 to 70 for as many as I can.

To finish if I feel like I need to I do db curl with my arm hanging freely in front of me and bent over to a 90 degree angle. 3sets of 8 very slow and flex hard at the top @35lb

This wokout takes a while, useually about 1.5 hours some times more depending on where Im at and what Im on in my cycle.
 
See....I got this feeling that many people think that high volume results in decreased muscle size and strength event hough theyhave never tried it and/or are too lazy to put forth the effort required..........Now, I'm def. not calling anyone out.....and I believe whole heartily that if it works for you, keep doing it...don't re-invent the wheel, but you never know whats out there till you give it a shot.......
 
Arms- Tris first, then bis

On Friday's:
tris: close grip bench - 135x10-15, 225x10, 275x10, 315x8-10
weighted/seated dips - body weight x10, 100lb plate x 10, 2 100lb plates x10-25
overhead db presses (two hands) or skull crushers
overheads - 80sx 6-10, 120x10 (3 sets)
skulls - 25sx10, 35sx10, 45x10s, 50-55 x 6-10
rope extensions - 30x15, 40x15, 50x15

bis: standing db curls - 35s, 45s, 55s, sometimes 60s or 65s (all sets of 10)
hammer db curls - 45s, 55s, 65s (all sets of 10)
preachers - 25s on ez-bar (3 sets of 10)

On Tuesday with back, just for some extra definition
wide grip barbell curls - bar + 10s, 20s, 30s, sometimes 40s (add 10s each set, all sets of 10)
concentrations - 30s-35s (usually 2 sets of 10, sometimes 3 sets)
 
triceps all i do is close grip benches, and supinated chins work biceps enough for me, you really dont need that much volume from arms, considering they basically grow with the rest of your body, and theres absolutely no way you need 15 sets for a bodypart as small as biceps
 
You need 15 sets, sometime more.................this is a necessity.............just ask BigBoss ^^ hell, my brother does about 18-20...........that's for each one...........
 
I dont know why people try to sum everyone up into one catagory. EVERYONE IS DIFFERANT!! jezzus......I see people talkin about doing 2 or 3 sets per bodypart and for me that is retarded but it works for others. Some people need volume (arnold) some dont(coleman)it depends on the person. Think about it for a minute.....if we all reacted the same we would all be doing the same routines.
 
BIGDHO said:
I dont know why people try to sum everyone up into one catagory. EVERYONE IS DIFFERANT!! jezzus......I see people talkin about doing 2 or 3 sets per bodypart and for me that is retarded but it works for others. Some people need volume (arnold) some dont(coleman)it depends on the person. Think about it for a minute.....if we all reacted the same we would all be doing the same routines.

Very true...............actually 90% of bodybuildiers DO need the extra volume.....Coleman trains with multiple sets.........matter of fact, it's DOrian and Mentzer who use the one set theory........I don't know how it WORKS, I just know I need more to FEEL............
 
Well, not to spark up an arguement, but the body will grow due to the amount of stress placed on it, right? So, instead of using 15 sets to reach that level of stress, what if you could muster up enough intensity within 2-3 sets? Wouldn't you opt for that? Have you ever given lower volume, with a much higher intensity a try, Bigdho?

I respect your progress and all, you seem to know what the hell you're doing, but low-volume makes sense to me. Though I won't argue that high-volume works, no doubt about that.
 
Word. I love training arms more than any other b/p, and they are my best b/p. I think the part that you love to train will most likely be your strongest and largest mainly because you train it with more intensity and in most cases, more volume. Here is my core arm workout, I change it up a lot though:

Tris:
Skulls 4sets
CG-Bench 3sets
Overhead Extensions 2sets or Pulldowns dropset
Finish off with dips + added weight

Bis:
BB Curl 4sets
Incline Curls 2sets
Preachers - 3sets supersetted w/ Hammers

I'll switch between doing tris first and bis first. Sometimes I'll do bis every other, with tris in between, and vice versa. Keep the muscles guessing I say.
 
Tom Treutlein said:
Well, not to spark up an arguement, but the body will grow due to the amount of stress placed on it, right? So, instead of using 15 sets to reach that level of stress, what if you could muster up enough intensity within 2-3 sets? Wouldn't you opt for that? Have you ever given lower volume, with a much higher intensity a try, Bigdho?

I respect your progress and all, you seem to know what the hell you're doing, but low-volume makes sense to me. Though I won't argue that high-volume works, no doubt about that.

Ya Ive tried lo volume hi intensity workouts. I used max weight every set and though I would get a good pump I didnt get much growth. I am in the prosess of changing my whole aproach as I am now under the watchfull eye of swolecat. He is going to take me to the next level. Whatever he says I do and it has worked so far. I also have a new "suplement coach" that has helped out greatly.
 
I think the most important piece of advice that anyone can come away from here with is that there is no one ideal workout for everyone. That said here is my arm workout for tonight.

close grip press- 4x6-8
incline elbows out extensions- 4x6
db extensions- 3x10
rope pushdown- 2x10

db curl- 4x8-10
hammer curl- 3x8
preacher curl- 4x8
bb curl- 3x8

Remember, don't worry about what someone else is lifting, just keep pushing yourself.
 
big4life said:
I think the most important piece of advice that anyone can come away from here with is that there is no one ideal workout for everyone. That said here is my arm workout for tonight.

close grip press- 4x6-8
incline elbows out extensions- 4x6
db extensions- 3x10
rope pushdown- 2x10

db curl- 4x8-10
hammer curl- 3x8
preacher curl- 4x8
bb curl- 3x8

Remember, don't worry about what someone else is lifting, just keep pushing yourself.

AGREED! But, isnt it ironic how everyone's routine is at least 9-10 sets for each? Either most of us have the right idea, or most of use are complete idiots.........at least we agree..........
 
I probably am overtraining........that is why I pay professionals to do the work for me. I think Im at the point where I either get pros to help or I get happy with where Im at......And thats not going to happen.
 
The best example is to talk to some big boys, which as the numbers prove, who have huge arms. It appears that all of us to high volume and whala, you can see the dividends. It must be magical.

REMEBER ONE THING...it takes a guy who lifts heavy weights for his muscles to warm up. It takes me at least 4 sets on bench to finally warm up. If i were doing less weight i could warm up faster, but that isnt the case. One, okay very few can, who does 315 on bench doesnt just throw 315 on the bench and rep it out. They have to warm up to it.

Lastly the one set phenomenon is complete bs. I would be absolutely shocked if you had big muscular arms!
 
i would almost agree with 15 sets for larger bodyparts, but for arms???? your arms are worked indirectly with EVERY pushing and pulling movement, besides when you train legs. I dont see the logic in beating up such a small bodypart with multiple sets after they have been hit from doing chest, shoulders, and back in the week. Just my opinion
 
Just a little observation i do like these threads that jkurz has started!! there is no one right answer here..I dont know how many sets you should be doing but a beginner should not be doing 20 sets each for bi's tri's..Its something that needs to be worked up to over years of training..Personally 2 sets to reach the level of stress equal to 15 just aint gonna happen!!But my main point is what is overtraining??? If i do 20 sets and completely recover to be able to do it again in x days with the same intensity or greater am i overtraining?
 
True, 2 might not be able to measure up to 15, but it's the main point of the game diet anyways? I supposed 2 sets may be a little too low, but 15 too high. Moderate volume would probably be best. Then again, it's just easier to take somewhat a grey path rather than black and white, since it's kind of getting the best of both worlds. Did I make any sense? I'm rambling.

I noticed after my DC training sessions (maybe an hour later) I can put in almost as much intensity as I did earlier. Not quite as much, but still muster up a lot of strength. Should I maybe add in some more volume then? The program has worked for everyone who has followed it to the letter, but I don't feel the least bit overtrained. I do get a nice workout, I'll admit, but I'm wondering (because of all these damn high-volume advocates) if a little more would be ideal...
 
Tom Treutlein said:
True, 2 might not be able to measure up to 15, but it's the main point of the game diet anyways? I supposed 2 sets may be a little too low, but 15 too high. Moderate volume would probably be best. Then again, it's just easier to take somewhat a grey path rather than black and white, since it's kind of getting the best of both worlds. Did I make any sense? I'm rambling.

I noticed after my DC training sessions (maybe an hour later) I can put in almost as much intensity as I did earlier. Not quite as much, but still muster up a lot of strength. Should I maybe add in some more volume then? The program has worked for everyone who has followed it to the letter, but I don't feel the least bit overtrained. I do get a nice workout, I'll admit, but I'm wondering (because of all these damn high-volume advocates) if a little more would be ideal...

whats up bro LI here too!!! we may disagree on the volume bit but if what you are doing is working than do not change until you stagnate and arent seeing progress..Yes diet is always key in achieving our goals..also if you feel you can do more fine but incrementally add more volume..maybe add 2 sets of another ecercise see how that goes for a few weeks then bump it up again..i think that applies to almost anything diet, training, gear etc..
 
Tom, when i did DC training i rarely worked my biceps directly (supinated chins only), and they are now one of my best bodyparts. Heavy, intense pushing and pulling have made my arms better than they have ever been. I think when you are putting in that much intensity to tons of compound movements your arms are going to grow.
 
Big component is ROIDS or NO ROIDS. Much more difficult to do high vol. naturally unless done as a shock routine.
 
punch said:
Big component is ROIDS or NO ROIDS. Much more difficult to do high vol. naturally unless done as a shock routine.

I don't beleive so.........I've been train high volume with arms on or off.......maybe I recoup a tad faster on, but that's all........
 
JKURZ....nothing against AS use by any means...I had this discussion w/ my best friend who has competed and is currently on a cycle. It would be very difficult for me to keep up w/ his arm routine naturally and yes recoup time is a big factor. I find that if I train my BIS/TRIS w/ a complimentary larger bodypart ie..Back/chest I get a great workout.

Heres what I do:

Mon: Chest/Bis/Tris w/ emphasis on Bi's

Wed: Legs/Shoulders

Fri: Back/ Bis/Tris w/ emphasis on Tri's

if need be I may hit one of my larger bodyparts again on Sat or sun. I do 2 different excersizes for arms on Mon and same for Fri. As it is, this maybe too much, however its my priority. I will be going into competition next year.
 
Punch,
You pretty much have to hit bis/tris with other major muscle groups since you are training 3 days a week, sometimes 4. I did that for my entire time in undergrad and i felt great. However, when i finished undergrad i started training 5 days a week. In the past 2 years i have put on 40lbs, probably 30lbs of muscle. When i did a 3 day routine i never concentrated on back or legs, i know my own stupidity. Now they are an integral part of my routine.
Lastly, i love high volume training and im all natural. I am fortunate to recover quickly, very similar to Jkurz1.
 
cwick0 said:
The best example is to talk to some big boys, which as the numbers prove, who have huge arms. It appears that all of us to high volume and whala, you can see the dividends. It must be magical.

REMEBER ONE THING...it takes a guy who lifts heavy weights for his muscles to warm up. It takes me at least 4 sets on bench to finally warm up. If i were doing less weight i could warm up faster, but that isnt the case. One, okay very few can, who does 315 on bench doesnt just throw 315 on the bench and rep it out. They have to warm up to it.

Lastly the one set phenomenon is complete bs. I would be absolutely shocked if you had big muscular arms!

Couple of things right fast. Coming from me that means 5 minutes ;) :p

I don't think high volume's magical. It didn't do much for me, which is a shame since I love training and being pumped :supercool.

In fact, the one set stuff, which I know you love :), helps me grow best. And for the record, my arms aren't puny and nonmuscular, nor are Doggcrapp's or his disciples' (check out the training forum at Chad Nicholl's Muscle Mayhem...several of his guys, some of whom are natty, are posting pictures and obviously growing like crazy).

That said, any low volume guy who says he doesn't do warm-ups is lying, stupid or both. I definitely agree you can't just throw around 315 without warming up...doing so would be foolish!

I suppose one could therefore say Doggcrapp, his guys and I don't do "one set" as such; with 3 or more warm-ups, we might do as many as 6 "sets" of an exercise. Example for bench press:

135x10
185x6
225x4
275x2
315x1
345xfailure

However, since all but one set is very easy/non-taxing, we don't count them. Specifically, we don't count them as "work sets" because they're not the efforts that stimulate growth--the last one @ 345, taken to failure plus rest-pauses, is.

-Sean
 
guldukat,
Im glad the low volume training works for you. Unfortunately if i only did 30 or so reps like you are saying for bench i wouldnt even get a workout. It takes me 30 reps just to get warmed up. Plus, anything below 315 on bench i dont count, same goes for other exercises.
 
cwick0 said:
guldukat,
Im glad the low volume training works for you. Unfortunately if i only did 30 or so reps like you are saying for bench i wouldnt even get a workout. It takes me 30 reps just to get warmed up. Plus, anything below 315 on bench i dont count, same goes for other exercises.

Coolness :)

I hear you. Volume works well for a lot of people--yourself included. (I've read some of your stats. Impressive, especially for a natty!)

Different strokes fer different folks I guess ;)
 
1. I try to hit bis twice a week (friday w/ tris and tuesday w/back, but only 2 exercises w/ back).
2. triceps make up two-thirds of your arms.

3. i use to destroy bis first, now only tris first. Plus before i started grad school, i hit reverse grip bench for tris and not close grip, even though i can do the same weight, i didnt get the results.

4. i have added several inches in the last 20 months to my arms. Previous 3 years maybe an inch. I never focused on tris before.
 
I would probably avoid it, but i hate the smith machine. The big thing about close grip is to adjust your grip so it is comfortable. We both have broad/wide chest's, so dont go to close. I suspect your wrist flexion is coming from going a little to narrow. When i lower the weight on a close grip, my wrists touch the outer edges of my pecs. If i go to narrow my wrists hurt like hell. I line my hands up with my outer two fingers on the texture and middle & index on the smooth part of the bar, probably 8" apart or so.
 
About high intensity training. I used to train high intensity thinking it was the only thing to do in order to grow. Then I never thought about why I wasn't getting anywhere or why I was getting injuries like knee problems and rotator cuff issues. DUH! I follow HIT guidelines for training and have increased my weight, I don't look flat anymore (I'd always get great pumps but would just be flat a couple days later), now I look leaner, yet fuller, I've gotten bigger. I'm far from lazy, not many people in the gym match my dedication nor my diligence. But I'm glad I can work out in less than half an hour and have progress.
Biceps are such a small muscle, to do all that work just doesn't sound logical to me, but hey if it works for some people then great. How about some synthol for the guy who posted this thread and call it a day? :) A couple bottles possibly? Two for each arm. :)
 
Uhm, you mean about high-volume training, don't you? You're saying you used to do that, then went to HIT, correct? I agree, I don't think you need that much volume to grow. Especially not 15 sets for a small muscle like the biceps. Still, if it works for them, it works. No one cares about how you got there. Do you see them asking at a bodybuilding competition "Now, you trained how?" "Uhm, high-volume. About 20 sets per bodypart" "Disqualified!". If that were the case, well, that'd just be fucked up and some people would have bullets through their heads right about now.

The results are all that matter.
 
Whoops, Tom you're right. I slipped up. I meant to say that High Volume training wasn't working for me. Then I went to High Intensity Training and have gotten very good results. Thanks for catching that one.
 
JKurz1 said:
High volume today boys...........anyone else?

arms for me today as well..wasnt a very good w/o compared to my usual..bout 12 sets ech for tri's and bi's
cg bench
skulls v-bar pushdowns
bbcurl
d-bellcurl
hammers
drag curls(did these last and kinda lite just to get feel..im liking them.) my wrist was friggin killing me today doing curls so that kinda put me in a bad mood..
 
On some exercises I like to stick to top half of the curl movement. Hits the bi's different than the full movement. I would do this on machine curls for example. For triceps i find it's not so much the exercise but the amount of burn you can get.
 
heres what im thinking
cg bench 4 sets
usually do skulls next but my elbows have been bothering me as of late so im gonna take a break for a few weeks
overhead d-bell xtension 4 sets
v-bar pushdowns 4 sets

BB preachers 4sets
seated d-bell curls 3 sets
hammers 3 sets
conecntr curl 2 sets

some abs
 
I try to take about 60 secs between each set sometimes a bit longer..I was dieting for awhile and i recently cut back on cardio only doing 3x30mins and upped my cals a bit as well..kinda taking a diet break for a few weeks...I think my arms are my worst body part particualrly my bi's, theyre kinda long so i wanna thicken them up,, my tri's are decent though..just arms will take about 1 hr 15 mins..if do abs ill just hit 3-5 sets leg raises little rest inbetween maybe another 10 mins for that..what about you bro?
 
lol, arms for me today too. This is getting a little scary guys, all of are arm routines look very similar or it is just we know these are the big ticket items that work!

tris-
close grip - sets of 10 till i cant go any higher (stop at 315 for 7-8 reps)
weighted seated dips or overhead extensions- 3sets
cable rope

bis-left bi is really sore for myself and my partner so we are going to be careful today
standing db curls
hammers
preachers

takes about 40-45 minutes for tris and about 20-25 for bis.
 
at a 60 second clip, youd be done in 45 minutes max............I like your routine bro.......I'm currently maintaining, but still do cardio everry morning on an empty tank - for sanity purposes (from sitting in the office all day) if nothing else.......

I hate arms, just because they arent as taxing as training legs, or back or even chest.......I def. hit tris harder than bis and my bis are pretty solid..........
 
Of course I got the whole muscle dyst. going on...I think my arms suck, but they are the first bp that people comment on.........

I can't stand BB curls........dont know why, just hate them........

Preachers frustate the f out of me for one reason..........99% of gymrats use too much weight and bounce in and out of the seat like popcorn...........so, I follow up with half the weight and people look at me like I'm slacking..........I know, screw them, but its just rough..............I think I'll do :

close gr bench (possible on the smith to reduce wrist strain and really tuck the elbows) 5 sets
skulls x 3 sets
overhead d-bell press 3 sets
v-bar pushdowns 3 sets
2 pump out sets of dips

DB (standing) 4sets
Preachers 3 sets
Rope (forarm) curl - 3 sets
hammers 2 sets
Str8 bar curl 2 sets
1 burnout on the machine to finish.................
 
JKurz1 said:
at a 60 second clip, youd be done in 45 minutes max............I like your routine bro.......I'm currently maintaining, but still do cardio everry morning on an empty tank - for sanity purposes (from sitting in the office all day) if nothing else.......

I hate arms, just because they arent as taxing as training legs, or back or even chest.......I def. hit tris harder than bis and my bis are pretty solid..........

i take a good few minutes after im done with tri's maybe a little too long lol. plus about 2 mins after im done with 1 exercise...The people in the know would not think your slcking doing preachers the right way..fuck those idiots that load it up im all for a slight cheat here and there but not my whole workout..
 
jkurz,
bb curls are great, but you have to tweak your grip so your wrists dont hurt. Doing bb curls is how i got my thickness.
preachers...only do them at the very end with 25s on the ez curl bar. The only reason i do them is to extend/lengthen my bis.
skulls...i did them heavy as fuck for several years and never got any growth from them, so i would consider doing your overhead extensions after close grip, then skulls. Skulls will suck then, but i dont care how heavy i go on them, since i dont develop from them.
v-bar...why not the rope so you can hit all three heads? I do the rope as my very last tri exercise just to burn the hell out of them and to help scult them.

why not reorder your bi workout, i think you could benefit a little more...
dbs, hammers, preachers, and rope. once in a while drop the dbs and throw in barbell their instead?
 
Man my workout friggin blew!!!!!!!!! well tri's went fine but every time i curl doesnt matter EZ or straight bar i get this piercing forearm pain when i get to my heavy set got like 4 reps and had to put the weight down so i stripped it and repped out..then did another set of 10 about 30 secs later..tried d-bell curl it was semi ok but it was hard when my forearm is so tight..you guys ever get this? its not on the top its in the belly..
 
JKurz1 said:
........

Preachers frustate the f out of me for one reason..........99% of gymrats use too much weight and bounce in and out of the seat like popcorn...........so, I follow up with half the weight and people look at me like I'm slacking.
QUOTE]

I hear yah on soooo many levels here.
 
wnt2b, I get that shit doing hammer curls. It's because I sliced my right forearm open about 6 months ago, and I skimmed my tendon. It's like a pinching nerve pain, and it hurts. A lot. Ever have any problems in the past with your forearms? Could be just because you're using a lot of weight. Needsize had that problem, I know.
 
Tom Treutlein said:
wnt2b, I get that shit doing hammer curls. It's because I sliced my right forearm open about 6 months ago, and I skimmed my tendon. It's like a pinching nerve pain, and it hurts. A lot. Ever have any problems in the past with your forearms? Could be just because you're using a lot of weight. Needsize had that problem, I know.

No never any probs with forearms..your talking more the top of your forearms that goes into the brachialis right? Mine is underneath frm the elbow to almost my wrist but i have absolutely no probs with my elbow..hope that tendon is all healed bro..
 
It's Friday, international arm day. My partner and i switched things up last week, so we shall see what happens.

close grip - sets of 10 till i cant go any higher (stop at 315 for 7-8 reps)
standing db curls
weighted seated dips - 4 sets today...body weight, 100lb plate, 2 100lb plates, 2 100s + a 45 today...gonna be rough
hammers
overhead extensions- 3sets, not counting one warmup
preachers or 21s
cable rope
 
cwick0 said:
It's Friday, international arm day. My partner and i switched things up last week, so we shall see what happens.

close grip - sets of 10 till i cant go any higher (stop at 315 for 7-8 reps)
standing db curls
weighted seated dips - 4 sets today...body weight, 100lb plate, 2 100lb plates, 2 100s + a 45 today...gonna be rough
hammers
overhead extensions- 3sets, not counting one warmup
preachers or 21s
cable rope


Light day haus, or are you injured?????





Kidding man....315 for 7-8 is pretty fing impressive...........very! Keep it going..........
 
ill get 10 today for sure, or i might say to hell with it and go heavier, need to get to 365 for 8-10. You will be a little suprised when we meet. I got you by 70lbs now, :).

This will be the first time we have went past 200lbs on weighted/seated dips. Never thought the front delts would hold up to the excessive amount of weight, we shall see.

Ive been setting records all week. However, i got some sleep last night so that might not be a good thing. My partner and i generally do better when we are tired.

On monday (chest day)...did 5x5 with 365 on flat. i got 5, 5, 5, 5, and 10 on the last set.
Yesterday, i did 295 seated barbell military for 6.
 
cwick0 said:
ill get 10 today for sure, or i might say to hell with it and go heavier, need to get to 365 for 8-10. You will be a little suprised when we meet. I got you by 70lbs now, :).

This will be the first time we have went past 200lbs on weighted/seated dips. Never thought the front delts would hold up to the excessive amount of weight, we shall see.

Ive been setting records all week. However, i got some sleep last night so that might not be a good thing. My partner and i generally do better when we are tired.

On monday (chest day)...did 5x5 with 365 on flat. i got 5, 5, 5, 5, and 10 on the last set.
Yesterday, i did 295 seated barbell military for 6.

you are a large large man wick
 
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