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Best for Excercise for Bicep?

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Synpax

Well-known member
I have been doing EZ bar curls with pinky over thumb. As the weight on the bar has increased, so has the wrist stress. I get a feeling I'm not doing as much for my biceps as possible and I think they are lagging.

One is the ONE best bicep grower/strengthener exercise I can do 5x5?
 
In correct form... I don't think I've ever found anything better than barbell curls for biceps. Seated incline dumbbell curls with your elbows slightly behind your body are a close second.

I think the biggest problem most people have developing biceps is not so much the choice of exercise as it is lousy form. It only takes a little rocking to blow the isolation... and most people try to work with a heavier weight than they can handle... so they get the weight up with that tiny little rock.
 
Synpax said:
I have been doing EZ bar curls with pinky over thumb. As the weight on the bar has increased, so has the wrist stress. I get a feeling I'm not doing as much for my biceps as possible and I think they are lagging.

One is the ONE best bicep grower/strengthener exercise I can do 5x5?
There is no greater bicep exercise than straight barbell curls. EZ bar curls are effective, but make no mistake - they are second fiddle due to the angled bar. I can't say how much less effective the EZ bar is, but it is less effective at direct training of the bicep muscles.

Stick with straight bar curls and hammer curls (always stand during bicep exercises) and you'll be doing as much as can be done to grow your biceps and forearms.
 
Powerdup - you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

A straight bar targets the bicep LESS. The bicep is only directly targeted when the pinky is ABOVE the thumb and that is what the EZ bar facilitates.

Sofageorge - yeah, I'm really careful about the form on these. I have my back against a wall and my elbows locked to my sides. One of the other bi excercises I do are reverse preacher curls (use the preacher bench but facing the opposite direction so my arm hangs straight down.)
 
Vince Gironda's Body Drag Curl - Old School

(Cut and Paste)
If you've ever read any of Vince Gironda's courses you may
remember his "barbell body drag curl" movement. I never
gave this much thought until I tried it one day out of
boredom. To my surprise, and Vince's credit, it is truly an
outstanding movement for the biceps. It also takes the
pressure off the deltoids entirely. Last and certainly not
least, you'll get a killer pump from the puppies!

The Technique

You'll be using a light barbell. Don't worry your muscles have
no idea how much weight is on the bar. Men, start with the
45lb bar (or lighter if you haven't been training long). Ladies,
find a 25lb straight bar.

Begin the movement in a normal curl stance: bar at your
thighs with your grip about shoulder-width. During this
exercise you'll bend slightly at the waist, unlike normal
barbell curls.

Now, here's where it gets tricky. Instead of curling the weight
up in an arch away from the body, as in a normal curl, DRAG
the barbell up, keeping your elbows back at all times. Keep
the bar in contact with your body throughout the curl. You'll
drag the bar up to about mid-chest level (or a little higher if
you can) and control it back down to your thighs. Concentrate
on flexing your biceps the entire time.

After about 4-5 reps you'll really feel this in the belly of your
bicep and you won't feel it in your delts. Just feel your way
around the movement and you'll find the groove that suits
you best. Standard barbell curls didn't do much for my biceps,
but my front delts grew like crazy! Now my biceps are
growing. Give this movement a shot.

A Variation

Vince actually performed this with a reverse grip. To me this
works the brachialis more than the belly of the bicep. (The
brachialis is the muscle that runs between the bicep and tricep
on the outside of the arm). However, increasing the size of the
brachialis will definitely make your arm larger, so give this
movement a place in your routine. The only difference in form
is that you grip the bar with your hands facing toward you
rather than away from you when the bar is in the starting
position. This movement works great performed body-drag
fashion or traditionally, arching the bar away from the body.
Concentrate by focusing on the side of the arm rather than
the forearms to contract and lift the bar.



Video of the man himself

http://www.natural-body-building-tips.com/video/girondacurl/gironda_body_drag_curl.html
 
Tatyana said:
If you really want to target your biceps do body drag curls with a straight bar.

gonna try these tomorrow morning! such a small variation yet i feel it's going to make a huge difference
 
Synpax said:
Powerdup - you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

A straight bar targets the bicep LESS.
Clearly I don't...and neither does Mark Rippetoe since he shares the exact same opinion in his books....and obviously these researchers from Oklahoma State University are morons as well:

http://www.muscleblitz.com/building_your_biceps.htm

You can simply google "Straight bar versus EZ Bar" and you'll get so much feedback about the straight bar being the superior bicep movement that you could read for weeks.

Get some facts before calling someone else out....
 
tat how does squating help your arms, I squat pretty heavy, and I squeeze the shit out of the bar I just don't really understand massively how it helps your biceps in general.

not saying you're wrong in anyway, that would be absurd looking at your signature and avatar, just saying I'm curious.
 
FriendlyCanadian said:
tat how does squating help your arms, I squat pretty heavy, and I squeeze the shit out of the bar I just don't really understand massively how it helps your biceps in general.

not saying you're wrong in anyway, that would be absurd looking at your signature and avatar, just saying I'm curious.

It is related to both the neuroendocrine system.

The nervous system (besides our brain) is actually quite evolutionary conserved, it is quite primitive. For example, if you have injured one leg or arm, but continue to train the other, you still get stimulation from the central nervous system to the arm or leg that is not being trained (obviously not to the same extent).

The same applies to stimulation of the largest muscle group in the body, when that get stimulated the entire body gets 'worked', and squats are really almost a full body movement.

With the endocrine system, one of the known triggers for growth hormone release is intense exercise, and the most intense exercises are squats and deadlifts.

Old school bodybuilders knew this to be true, intuitively, that you will never fully develop your upper body unless you develop your lower body.

Too many lads focus on chest, arms and shoulders IMHO, and would get far better results by going back to basics.

Really, you don't even have to train arms separately, especially if you are just starting out. They get worked when you go back to basics with all the compounds.
 
Ya, I like to stick to heavy squats, deads, rows and presses. All the other stuff is baby shit. Ill directly train my arms, once and a while. Ill get in different moods, and go on and off with them. Although, ill will regularly train heavy triceps, not for size though, but for power.
 
PoweredUp said:
Clearly I don't...and neither does Mark Rippetoe since he shares the exact same opinion in his books....and obviously these researchers from Oklahoma State University are morons as well:

http://www.muscleblitz.com/building_your_biceps.htm

You can simply google "Straight bar versus EZ Bar" and you'll get so much feedback about the straight bar being the superior bicep movement that you could read for weeks.

Get some facts before calling someone else out....

Yeah, Mark Rippetoe doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about. Witness from the article you link to:

'With a straight bar, the palm is already facing up. With the EZ bar, your palms are angled in slightly so they face each other.'

No, actually, the are angled to face AWAY from each other if you are holding it right. When facing each other, you get more of a hammer-curl action which targets your bracioradialis more than your bicep.

Here's an even better example you can do to prove to yourself. Do a curl with a dumbell parallel to the floor.

Now do it again with the wrist rotated outwards (your pinky over your thumbs). Tell me you don't feel a hell of a lot more effort in your bicep. This is immediately obvious.

If this isn't clear, I'll shoot a video for you on Monday.
 
Synpax said:
Yeah, Mark Rippetoe doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about. Witness from the article you link to:

'With a straight bar, the palm is already facing up. With the EZ bar, your palms are angled in slightly so they face each other.'

No, actually, the are angled to face AWAY from each other if you are holding it right. When facing each other, you get more of a hammer-curl action which targets your bracioradialis more than your bicep.

Here's an even better example you can do to prove to yourself. Do a curl with a dumbell parallel to the floor.

Now do it again with the wrist rotated outwards (your pinky over your thumbs). Tell me you don't feel a hell of a lot more effort in your bicep. This is immediately obvious.

If this isn't clear, I'll shoot a video for you on Monday.
Okay, who the fuck can hold an EZ bar so that your palms face away from one another? I would love to see a video of that! Hell, I'd even settle for a still frame image. If you hold your arms out in front of you, there's no way you can even rotate your palms to face away from one another with or without a bar. What the hell are you even talking about?

With dumbbells, it is possible to get a little more outward rotation (very little), but your argument was made that you could somehow do this with the EZ bar...
 
Last edited:
SofaGeorge said:
In correct form... I don't think I've ever found anything better than barbell curls for biceps. Seated incline dumbbell curls with your elbows slightly behind your body are a close second.

I think the biggest problem most people have developing biceps is not so much the choice of exercise as it is lousy form. It only takes a little rocking to blow the isolation... and most people try to work with a heavier weight than they can handle... so they get the weight up with that tiny little rock.

I see most of the big guys merrily rocking away at all curl movements.

Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler are right into rocking the weights up. Perhaps it's the way to go??
 
tropo said:
I see most of the big guys merrily rocking away at all curl movements.

Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler are right into rocking the weights up. Perhaps it's the way to go??

Arnold would do the same thing, yet his arms were nowhere the same size. Those guys are big from a decade of hard steroids, not their form.
 
TheOak84 said:
Arnold would do the same thing, yet his arms were nowhere the same size. Those guys are big from a decade of hard steroids, not their form.

If all it takes is "hard steroids", then everyone would be just as big. There's far more to a champion than just steroids.
 
Just because straight-bar is better than EZ bar doesn't mean that straight-bar curls are the best bicep exercise, just better than EZ bar.

I don't claim to be an expert, but if you read around you'll see how much more rows are recommended for your bicep.

Just look at your arms when that barbell/dumbell is hanging down...suddenly there is a giant seperation between your bicep muscle and your elbow joint.
 
tropo said:
I see most of the big guys merrily rocking away at all curl movements.

Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler are right into rocking the weights up. Perhaps it's the way to go??
Bro, have you ever trained with Ronnie and Jay? I haven't seen either of them rock the weights up once.
 
PoweredUp said:
Okay, who the fuck can hold an EZ bar so that your palms face away from one another? I would love to see a video of that! Hell, I'd even settle for a still frame image. If you hold your arms out in front of you, there's no way you can even rotate your palms to face away from one another with or without a bar. What the hell are you even talking about?

With dumbbells, it is possible to get a little more outward rotation (very little), but your argument was made that you could somehow do this with the EZ bar...

Yes, you get more outward rotation with the EZ bar than with the straight bar. Just look at the bar a moment and think about it.

But since you seem to need a lesson, tomorrow is back/bi day so I will get someone to tape me doing a demo set for you with the EZ bar with my palms rotated away from each other and the pinky over the thumb, thus targeting my bicep.
 
HOW TO SQUAT FOR HUGE ARMS

By Stuart McRobert

Adapted from his best-selling book BRAWN

To build muscle mass, you must increase strength. Its that simple. You will never get huge arms, a monstrous back, a thick chest, or massive legs without lifting heavy weights. I know that probably doesnt come as a revelation to anyone. But despite how obvious it seems, far too many people (and not just beginners) neglect power training and rarely make increasing the weights lifted in each successive workout a priority. You must get strong in the basic mass building exercises to bring about a significant increase in muscle size. One of the biggest mistakes typical bodybuilders make is when they implement specialization routines before they have the right to use them.

It constantly amazes me just how many neophytes (beginners), near neophytes, and other insufficiently developed bodybuilders plunge into single-body part specialization programs in the desperate attempt to build big arms. I dont fault them for wanting big arms, but their approach to getting them is flawed. For the typical bodybuilder who is miles away from squatting 1 times their bodyweight for 20 reps (if you weigh 180 lbs., that means 20 reps with 270 lbs.), an arm specialization program is utterly inappropriate and useless.

The strength and development needed to squat well over 1 times bodyweight for 20 reps will build bigger arms faster then focusing on biceps and triceps training with isolation exercises. Even though squats are primarily a leg exercise, they stress and stimulate the entire body. But more importantly, if you are able to handle heavy weights in the squat, it logically follows that the rest of your body will undoubtedly be proportionally developed. Its a rare case that you would be able to squat 1 times your bodyweight and not have a substantial amount of upper body muscle mass.

This is not to say that you dont need to train arms, and squats alone will cause massive upper body growth. You will still work every body part, but you must focus on squats, deadlifts, and rows the exercises that develop the legs, hips, and back. Once you master the power movements and are able to handle impressive poundages on those lifts, the strength and muscle you gain will translate into greater weights used in arm, shoulder and chest exercises.

In every gym Ive ever visited or trained in, there were countless teenage boys blasting away on routines, dominated by arm exercises, in the attempt to build arms like their idols. In the 70s, they wanted arms like Arnold Schwarzenegger, in the 80s Robby Robinson was a favorite and currently Mr. Olympia, Ronnie Coleman, has set the standard everyone wants to achieve. Unfortunately the 3 aforementioned men as well as most other top bodybuilders have arm development far beyond the reach of the average (or even above average) weight trainer. But arm size can be increased. However, not in the way young trainers, with physiques that dont even have the faintest resemblance to those of bodybuilders are attempting to make progress. Thin arms, connected to narrow shoulders, fixed to shallow chest, joined to frail backs and skinny legs, dont need body part specialization programs. Lets not have skewed priorities. Lets not try to put icing on the cake before the cake has been baked.


Priorities
Trying to stimulate a substantial increase in size in a single body part, without first having the main structures of the body in pretty impressive condition, is to have turned bodybuilding upside-down, inside-out and back to front.

The typical bodybuilder simply isnt going to get much meat on his arms, calves, shoulders, pectorals and neck unless he first builds a considerable amount of muscle around the thighs, hips and back. It simply isnt possible for the typical drug-free bodybuilder, that is to add much if any size to the small areas unless the big areas are already becoming substantial.
Theres a knock-on (additive) effect from the efforts to add substantial size to the thigh, hip and back structure (closely followed by upper body pushing structure-pecs and delts). The smaller muscle groups, like the biceps, and triceps will progress in size (so long as you dont totally neglect them) pretty much in proportion to the increase in size of the big areas. Its not a case of getting big and strong thighs, hips, back and upper-body pushing structure with everything else staying put. Far from it. As the thigh, hip, back and upper-body pushing structure grows, so does everything else. Work hard on squats and deadlifts, in addition to bench presses, overhead presses and some type of row or pulldown. Then you can add a little isolation work curls, calf raises and neck work (but not all of this at every workout).


The Driver
The key point is that the engine that drives the gains in the small areas is the progress being made in the big areas. If you take it easy on the thigh and back you will, generally speaking, have trouble making gains in the other exercises, no matter how hard you work the latter.

All this isnt to say just do squats, deadlifts and upper back work, quite closely followed by some upper-body pressing work. While such a limited program will deliver good gains on these few exercises, with some knock-on effect throughout the body, its not a year after year program. Very abbreviated routines are great for getting gains moving, and for building a foundation for moderately expanded routines. They are fine to keep returning to on a regular basis. The other training isnt necessary all in the same workout but spread over the week. This will maintain balance throughout the body and capitalize upon the progress made in the thigh, hip and back structure.

Just remember that the thigh, hip and back structure comes first and is the driver (closely followed by the upper-body pushing structure) for the other exercises. These other exercises, though important in their own right, are passengers relative to the driving team.


Big Arms
To get big arms, get yourself on a basic program that focuses on the leg, hip and back structure without neglecting the arms themselves. As you improve your squatting ability, for reps and by say 100 pounds, your curling poundage should readily come up by 30 pounds or so if you work hard enough on your curls. This will add size to your biceps. While adding 100 pounds to your squat, you should be able to add 50-70 pounds to your bench press, for reps. This assumes youve put together a sound program and have worked hard on the bench. That will add size to your triceps.

If youre desperate to add a couple of inches to your upper arms youll need to add 30 pounds or more over your body, unless your arms are way behind the rest of you. Dont start thinking about 17 arms, or even 16 arms so long as your bodyweight is 130, 140, 150, 160, or even 170 pounds. Few people can get big arms without having a big body. Youre unlikely to be one of the exceptions.

15 sets of arm flexor exercises, and 15 sets of isolation tricep exercises with a few squats, deadlifts and bench presses thrown in as an afterthought will give you a great pump and attack the arms from all angles. However, it wont make your arms grow much, if at all, unless youre already squatting and benching big poundages, or are drug-assisted or genetically gifted.

As your main structures come along in size and strength (thigh, hip and back structure, and the pressing structure), the directly involved smaller body parts are brought along in size too. How can you bench press or dip impressive poundages without adding a lot of size to your triceps? How can you deadlift the house and row big weights without having the arm flexors not to mention the shoulders and upper back to go with those lifts? How can you squat close to 2 times bodyweight, for plenty of reps, without having a lot of muscle all over your body?

The greater the development and strength of the main muscular structures of the body, the greater the size and strength potential of the small areas of the body. Think it through. Suppose you can only squat and deadlift with 200 pounds, and your arms measure about 13. Youre unlikely to add any more than half an inch or so on them, no matter how much arm specialization you put in.

However, put some real effort into the squat and deadlift, together with the bench press and a few other major basic movements. Build up the poundages by 50% or more, to the point where you can squat 300 pounds for over 10 reps, and pack on 30 pounds of muscle. Then, unless you have an unusual arm structure, you should be able to get your arms to around 16. If you want 17 arms, plan on having to squat more than a few reps with around 2 times bodyweight, and on adding many more pounds of muscle throughout your body (unless you have a better-than-average growth potential in your upper arms).

All of this arm development would have been achieved without a single concentration curl, without a single pushdown and without a single preacher curl. This lesson in priorities proves that the shortest distance.
 
waldowade said:
Just because straight-bar is better than EZ bar doesn't mean that straight-bar curls are the best bicep exercise, just better than EZ bar.

I don't claim to be an expert, but if you read around you'll see how much more rows are recommended for your bicep.

Just look at your arms when that barbell/dumbell is hanging down...suddenly there is a giant seperation between your bicep muscle and your elbow joint.
I don't disagree with that. My arms are plenty taken care of with cleans, rows, and deads. I do 3 sets of hammer curls per week, and that's the only thing I do that comes close to an isolated bicep movement. I was just trying to make the point that the straight bar is superior to the EZ bar in terms of hitting the bicep muscle.
 
Synpax said:
Yes, you get more outward rotation with the EZ bar than with the straight bar. Just look at the bar a moment and think about it.

But since you seem to need a lesson, tomorrow is back/bi day so I will get someone to tape me doing a demo set for you with the EZ bar with my palms rotated away from each other and the pinky over the thumb, thus targeting my bicep.
I don't need a lesson because I rarely bother with isolated bicep exercises, but I would love to see you curling a bar with your palms facing away from one another. This ought to be good...
 
Lads, arguing the finer points of bicep curls is really moot.

Your arms will look bigger when you triceps are bigger.

Your insertions of your biceps and the shape is genetically determined, you may or may not have peaks or bifurcation of the bicep that will be seen.

I am a big fan of old school BBing.

Until my coach gave me a program that trains my arms, I would only do them about once a month, if that.
 
Tatyana said:
Lads, arguing the finer points of bicep curls is really moot.

Your arms will look bigger when you triceps are bigger.

Part of my issue is that my larger triceps are making my biceps look even more puny.

But I gotta shoot a video to demo how to do an EZ bar curl.
 
straight barbell curl- best bicep mass builder imo

I dont bother with that ez bar shit, only reason people use that is to put less strain on their wrists, it has no benefit over a straight bar.
 
The EZ-bar puts MORE stress on your wrists. That's why I brought it up. There are two ways to hold an EZ-bar.

Since we seem to have so many here with more muscle than brains, I made a video today to demonstrate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx7PXwVw8sk

Another good way to hit the bicep is the reverse preacher curl with dumbells. This may be the best way because it is almost impossible to cheat the movement and because you can rotate your hand into whatever position you want.
 
Synpax said:
The EZ-bar puts MORE stress on your wrists. That's why I brought it up. There are two ways to hold an EZ-bar.

Since we seem to have so many here with more muscle than brains, I made a video today to demonstrate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx7PXwVw8sk

Another good way to hit the bicep is the reverse preacher curl with dumbells. This may be the best way because it is almost impossible to cheat the movement and because you can rotate your hand into whatever position you want.
Touche - although I have doubts that many people would be unable to hold the bar like that. I also wonder how much weight you could put on the bar holding it in that fashion. I couldn't tell if those were 10s or 25s that you were using...

Tomorrow is my next pull day, so I'll grab the EZ bar and see if I can even gets my wrists to face away from one another. It's possible that you have a lot more flexibility in your joints that most people do...
 
Synpax said:
The EZ-bar puts MORE stress on your wrists. That's why I brought it up. There are two ways to hold an EZ-bar.

Since we seem to have so many here with more muscle than brains, I made a video today to demonstrate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx7PXwVw8sk

Another good way to hit the bicep is the reverse preacher curl with dumbells. This may be the best way because it is almost impossible to cheat the movement and because you can rotate your hand into whatever position you want.

I think you are being way to scientific, JUST CURL HEAVY and for at least 6 reps and cheat a little if you have to, it does not make much difference on how your hands are positioned. And almost every back exercise works your bis hard too.
 
alexl2 said:
I think you are being way to scientific, JUST CURL HEAVY and for at least 6 reps and cheat a little if you have to, it does not make much difference on how your hands are positioned. And almost every back exercise works your bis hard too.

I can't help being scientific. And I do a lot of back work. Today it looked like

5x5 EZs
2x20 DB curls
2x10 reverse preachers

5x5 Deads
2x20 lat pulldown
2x20 cable rows (wide bar with a wide grip)
2x20 DB shrugs
 
PoweredUp said:
Touche - although I have doubts that many people would be unable to hold the bar like that. I also wonder how much weight you could put on the bar holding it in that fashion. I couldn't tell if those were 10s or 25s that you were using...

Tomorrow is my next pull day, so I'll grab the EZ bar and see if I can even gets my wrists to face away from one another. It's possible that you have a lot more flexibility in your joints that most people do...

The video is low quality - it's actually 73 lbs total and go 5x5. The bar is 18s and I have a 25 and a 2.5 on each side. Next week I increment t up to 78.

I worked up gradually and while it had caused some wrist pain before it didn't cause any today.

I am considering dropping this as my 'heavy' bi and going with the reverse preacher curl which is pretty much impossible to cheat on and allows you to rotate the dumbell.

Anyway, let us know how it goes for you.
 
alexl2 said:
I think you are being way to scientific, JUST CURL HEAVY and for at least 6 reps and cheat a little if you have to, it does not make much difference on how your hands are positioned. And almost every back exercise works your bis hard too.

I agree. Synpax is WAY OVER-FUCKING-ANALYZING this. Ever heard...Keep It Simple? This isn't rocket science, it's bodybuilding. You're the only one I've ever seen use an EZ-Curl bar like that. Oh, and reverse grip curls are more of a forearm exercise brainiac.

Synpax said:
I can't help being scientific.

How's that working for you? You look like a ton of average dudes in any gym any day of the week. If that is your goal, then great. If you're trying to get huge, might I suggest you EAT BIG, workout heavy focusing on the basic compound lifts, and make sure you keep a logbook so you KNOW you are progressing with weights (lifting heavier every time).

Tatyana has some GREAT advice in here that you seem to have ignored. All you seem to want to hear is how great your ass-backwards EZ-Curls are.

LOL @ your skinny ass saying, "Mark Rippetoe doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about." Who are all the national level competitors you've coached??? :rolleyes:
 
Tatyana said:
HOW TO SQUAT FOR HUGE ARMS

By Stuart McRobert

Adapted from his best-selling book BRAWN

To build muscle mass, you must increase strength. Its that simple. You will never get huge arms, a monstrous back, a thick chest, or massive legs without lifting heavy weights. I know that probably doesnt come as a revelation to anyone. But despite how obvious it seems, far too many people (and not just beginners) neglect power training and rarely make increasing the weights lifted in each successive workout a priority. You must get strong in the basic mass building exercises to bring about a significant increase in muscle size. One of the biggest mistakes typical bodybuilders make is when they implement specialization routines before they have the right to use them.

It constantly amazes me just how many neophytes (beginners), near neophytes, and other insufficiently developed bodybuilders plunge into single-body part specialization programs in the desperate attempt to build big arms. I dont fault them for wanting big arms, but their approach to getting them is flawed. For the typical bodybuilder who is miles away from squatting 1 times their bodyweight for 20 reps (if you weigh 180 lbs., that means 20 reps with 270 lbs.), an arm specialization program is utterly inappropriate and useless.

The strength and development needed to squat well over 1 times bodyweight for 20 reps will build bigger arms faster then focusing on biceps and triceps training with isolation exercises. Even though squats are primarily a leg exercise, they stress and stimulate the entire body. But more importantly, if you are able to handle heavy weights in the squat, it logically follows that the rest of your body will undoubtedly be proportionally developed. Its a rare case that you would be able to squat 1 times your bodyweight and not have a substantial amount of upper body muscle mass.

This is not to say that you dont need to train arms, and squats alone will cause massive upper body growth. You will still work every body part, but you must focus on squats, deadlifts, and rows the exercises that develop the legs, hips, and back. Once you master the power movements and are able to handle impressive poundages on those lifts, the strength and muscle you gain will translate into greater weights used in arm, shoulder and chest exercises.

In every gym Ive ever visited or trained in, there were countless teenage boys blasting away on routines, dominated by arm exercises, in the attempt to build arms like their idols. In the 70s, they wanted arms like Arnold Schwarzenegger, in the 80s Robby Robinson was a favorite and currently Mr. Olympia, Ronnie Coleman, has set the standard everyone wants to achieve. Unfortunately the 3 aforementioned men as well as most other top bodybuilders have arm development far beyond the reach of the average (or even above average) weight trainer. But arm size can be increased. However, not in the way young trainers, with physiques that dont even have the faintest resemblance to those of bodybuilders are attempting to make progress. Thin arms, connected to narrow shoulders, fixed to shallow chest, joined to frail backs and skinny legs, dont need body part specialization programs. Lets not have skewed priorities. Lets not try to put icing on the cake before the cake has been baked.


Priorities
Trying to stimulate a substantial increase in size in a single body part, without first having the main structures of the body in pretty impressive condition, is to have turned bodybuilding upside-down, inside-out and back to front.

The typical bodybuilder simply isnt going to get much meat on his arms, calves, shoulders, pectorals and neck unless he first builds a considerable amount of muscle around the thighs, hips and back. It simply isnt possible for the typical drug-free bodybuilder, that is to add much if any size to the small areas unless the big areas are already becoming substantial.
Theres a knock-on (additive) effect from the efforts to add substantial size to the thigh, hip and back structure (closely followed by upper body pushing structure-pecs and delts). The smaller muscle groups, like the biceps, and triceps will progress in size (so long as you dont totally neglect them) pretty much in proportion to the increase in size of the big areas. Its not a case of getting big and strong thighs, hips, back and upper-body pushing structure with everything else staying put. Far from it. As the thigh, hip, back and upper-body pushing structure grows, so does everything else. Work hard on squats and deadlifts, in addition to bench presses, overhead presses and some type of row or pulldown. Then you can add a little isolation work curls, calf raises and neck work (but not all of this at every workout).


The Driver
The key point is that the engine that drives the gains in the small areas is the progress being made in the big areas. If you take it easy on the thigh and back you will, generally speaking, have trouble making gains in the other exercises, no matter how hard you work the latter.

All this isnt to say just do squats, deadlifts and upper back work, quite closely followed by some upper-body pressing work. While such a limited program will deliver good gains on these few exercises, with some knock-on effect throughout the body, its not a year after year program. Very abbreviated routines are great for getting gains moving, and for building a foundation for moderately expanded routines. They are fine to keep returning to on a regular basis. The other training isnt necessary all in the same workout but spread over the week. This will maintain balance throughout the body and capitalize upon the progress made in the thigh, hip and back structure.

Just remember that the thigh, hip and back structure comes first and is the driver (closely followed by the upper-body pushing structure) for the other exercises. These other exercises, though important in their own right, are passengers relative to the driving team.


Big Arms
To get big arms, get yourself on a basic program that focuses on the leg, hip and back structure without neglecting the arms themselves. As you improve your squatting ability, for reps and by say 100 pounds, your curling poundage should readily come up by 30 pounds or so if you work hard enough on your curls. This will add size to your biceps. While adding 100 pounds to your squat, you should be able to add 50-70 pounds to your bench press, for reps. This assumes youve put together a sound program and have worked hard on the bench. That will add size to your triceps.

If youre desperate to add a couple of inches to your upper arms youll need to add 30 pounds or more over your body, unless your arms are way behind the rest of you. Dont start thinking about 17 arms, or even 16 arms so long as your bodyweight is 130, 140, 150, 160, or even 170 pounds. Few people can get big arms without having a big body. Youre unlikely to be one of the exceptions.

15 sets of arm flexor exercises, and 15 sets of isolation tricep exercises with a few squats, deadlifts and bench presses thrown in as an afterthought will give you a great pump and attack the arms from all angles. However, it wont make your arms grow much, if at all, unless youre already squatting and benching big poundages, or are drug-assisted or genetically gifted.

As your main structures come along in size and strength (thigh, hip and back structure, and the pressing structure), the directly involved smaller body parts are brought along in size too. How can you bench press or dip impressive poundages without adding a lot of size to your triceps? How can you deadlift the house and row big weights without having the arm flexors not to mention the shoulders and upper back to go with those lifts? How can you squat close to 2 times bodyweight, for plenty of reps, without having a lot of muscle all over your body?

The greater the development and strength of the main muscular structures of the body, the greater the size and strength potential of the small areas of the body. Think it through. Suppose you can only squat and deadlift with 200 pounds, and your arms measure about 13. Youre unlikely to add any more than half an inch or so on them, no matter how much arm specialization you put in.

However, put some real effort into the squat and deadlift, together with the bench press and a few other major basic movements. Build up the poundages by 50% or more, to the point where you can squat 300 pounds for over 10 reps, and pack on 30 pounds of muscle. Then, unless you have an unusual arm structure, you should be able to get your arms to around 16. If you want 17 arms, plan on having to squat more than a few reps with around 2 times bodyweight, and on adding many more pounds of muscle throughout your body (unless you have a better-than-average growth potential in your upper arms).

All of this arm development would have been achieved without a single concentration curl, without a single pushdown and without a single preacher curl. This lesson in priorities proves that the shortest distance.

Ive Squated, Squated and Squated, then done a fdew more squats, then came back and squated, spuersetted with Squats with warm up squats. I consider my arms (16 inches) big. not huge but quite big comparing them to most average joes and alot of lifters. But I still dont have awseome Developed Biceps. My arms are all triceps, If I had decent Bis I reckon my arms would be around 18-19 inches maybe.

Also to everyone that say curls are shit? Why not do curls and isolation work? If your allready big and dont do them, imagin what youd look like with them? Even bigger I guess, youd probably even see some better progress with weight in your rows/bench/OHP etc.
 
ceo said:
I agree. Synpax is WAY OVER-FUCKING-ANALYZING this. Ever heard...Keep It Simple? This isn't rocket science, it's bodybuilding. You're the only one I've ever seen use an EZ-Curl bar like that. Oh, and reverse grip curls are more of a forearm exercise brainiac.



How's that working for you? You look like a ton of average dudes in any gym any day of the week. If that is your goal, then great. If you're trying to get huge, might I suggest you EAT BIG, workout heavy focusing on the basic compound lifts, and make sure you keep a logbook so you KNOW you are progressing with weights (lifting heavier every time).

Tatyana has some GREAT advice in here that you seem to have ignored. All you seem to want to hear is how great your ass-backwards EZ-Curls are.

LOL @ your skinny ass saying, "Mark Rippetoe doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about." Who are all the national level competitors you've coached??? :rolleyes:

Gosh, where to begin. I can't tell if you are stupid or ignorant. Maybe both.

1) I take Tatyana's advice and I do squat and I do deadlift, however her advice is not completely correct for someone looking to get larger bicep. How many pro BBers don't do curls or cable rows of some kind?

2) I am a marathon runner and triathlete first. I do this excercise to support it, for strength and health, and for aesthetics. I have no desire to be 'big' and am close to where I want to be.

3) Yes, Mark Rippetoed doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about in the article mentioned. At least PoweredUp acknowleged there are more than one way to handle the EZ-bar in a way that does hit the biceps and Rippetoe doesn't acknowledge that.

4) You are stupid. I could be a cripple in a wheel chair and that still doesn't mean I wouldn't know what I'm talking about.

5) I don't care how big or small you are around here, there is always someone bigger/stronger than you. I don't see the purpose of you ripping my physique although it suggest, on a psychological level, you are probably no where near most of the guys on this board and saw my runner/swimmer build as a chance to FINALLY call someone out.

6) You are illiterate. I never mentioned reverse grip curls. I don't even do them. I mentioned reverse preacher curls (you use the preacher curl bench but flip it around so your arm can hang down straight).

6) You have no class. I've been a member for longer than my join date but have never seen anyone actually rip someone on a pic or video, particularly one that was posted not to brag but to demonstrate technique. Everyone is always very encouraging when someone posts the 'look at me' pics.

6) I don't see any pics of you in your profile. I'm going to wager you are a fatass and I have a higher power-ratio than you and can do more dips/pullups/pushups even though you can lift more.

Maybe you should stick to C&C.
 
Synpax said:
Gosh, where to begin. I can't tell if you are stupid or ignorant. Maybe both.

1) I take Tatyana's advice and I do squat and I do deadlift, however her advice is not completely correct for someone looking to get larger bicep. How many pro BBers don't do curls or cable rows of some kind?

2) I am a marathon runner and triathlete first. I do this excercise to support it, for strength and health, and for aesthetics. I have no desire to be 'big' and am close to where I want to be.

3) Yes, Mark Rippetoed doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about in the article mentioned. At least PoweredUp acknowleged there are more than one way to handle the EZ-bar in a way that does hit the biceps and Rippetoe doesn't acknowledge that.

4) You are stupid. I could be a cripple in a wheel chair and that still doesn't mean I wouldn't know what I'm talking about.

5) I don't care how big or small you are around here, there is always someone bigger/stronger than you. I don't see the purpose of you ripping my physique although it suggest, on a psychological level, you are probably no where near most of the guys on this board and saw my runner/swimmer build as a chance to FINALLY call someone out.

6) You are illiterate. I never mentioned reverse grip curls. I don't even do them. I mentioned reverse preacher curls (you use the preacher curl bench but flip it around so your arm can hang down straight).

6) You have no class. I've been a member for longer than my join date but have never seen anyone actually rip someone on a pic or video, particularly one that was posted not to brag but to demonstrate technique. Everyone is always very encouraging when someone posts the 'look at me' pics.

6) I don't see any pics of you in your profile. I'm going to wager you are a fatass and I have a higher power-ratio than you and can do more dips/pullups/pushups even though you can lift more.

Maybe you should stick to C&C.

What's wrong Sally Curls? Can't stand a dose of your own medicine? You are the one who started calling people out. You told poweredup that he, "clearly doesn't know what he's talking about." You're the one who insulted everyone who already posted by saying, "we seem to have so many here with more muscle than brains..." You are the one who said, "Mark Rippetoe doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about."

I bet you didn't even know who Ripptoe was (maybe you still don't). So again, what are your credentials Mr. Scientist? What gives you the authority to call everyone else who is posting in your thread trying to help you out, stupid? You'd better at least be sitting on some advanced science degrees and have a strong kinesiology background along with your CSCS in order to be calling people out like this.

Tatyana is a competitor who "clearly" KNOWS what she's talking about. She has posted an article about how to get huge arms, from Stuart McRobert - another well respected name in the business...but in YOUR expert opinion, that "advice is not completely correct!" But, you're a runner, you don't want to be big, and you only lift to support that (and strength, healt, aesthetics), but still not to be big. So why do you want bigger arms? More mass is only going to slow you down ya know.

Mark Rippetoe doesn't know how to handle an EZ-Curl bar? Well, at least his way (the proper way) doesn't make someone's wrists hurt...ya know...like YOUR WAY does!!! :rolleyes: An EZ-Curl bar is designed to take stress off the wrists genius, not add more stress to them. But yes, you can use it more than one way. I see people using equipment incorrectly all the time in my gym.

Face it, you were out of line calling everyone stupid, saying we all had more muscle than brains, and I e-bitch slapped you. Now you're all hurt and crying and trying to lash out yet again. You are isolating yourself in your own thread. People here are helpful. They were trying to help you because you asked for help. You just didn't like their answers.

Don't fucking ask for advice if you're not going to take any of it into account. And especially don't ask for advice if you're going to berate everyone who tries to help you. Now who is stupid and ignorant?
 
Synpax said:
At least PoweredUp acknowleged there are more than one way to handle the EZ-bar in a way that does hit the biceps and Rippetoe doesn't acknowledge that.
When you first cracked me by saying that I didn't know what I was talking about because the straight bar emphasized the biceps LESS than the EZ bar, that came off as an idiotic comment because it wasn't made clear that you were referencing an alternate grip.

I will acknowledge that holding the bar the way you did in that video will target the biceps more than the straight bar, but like I mentioned before - I don't think that many of us can do that. I'm also not so sure how friendly it is to your wrists and forearms. I was in the gym today and picked up a dumbbell and I couldn't even rotate my wrist outward the way that you did (and I would consider my wrists pretty flexible as well from years of front squats and power cleans). It was kind of painful. I'm just not built that way I guess.

I'll stick to the occasional 3 sets of straight bar curls and hammer curls...
 
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Tatyana said:
This thread is really amusing me now :artist:
It caught my eye now to. It better get cleaned up fast. I don't even care who started it. Lets just all end it. There is no room for name calling,down talking and fighting in this forum. Take that shit to chat.
 
needtogetaas said:
It caught my eye now to. It better get cleaned up fast. I don't even care who started it. Lets just all end it. There is no room for name calling,down talking and fighting in this forum. Take that shit to chat.
But then it loses its entertainment value...
 
I agree big guy.

BBing is all about experimenting to see what works for you.

It is great to exchange ideas and different routines, but there is no ONE way to do anything.

In fact, mixing it up works the best.

Routine wise and exercise that is, not with the finer points of bicep curls.

I would advise you lovely, passionate lads to take all that energy to the gym and hammer your body with it, instead of each other :heart:
 
SofaGeorge said:
Bro, have you ever trained with Ronnie and Jay? I haven't seen either of them rock the weights up once.

No I haven't ever trained with Ronnie or Jay but I've got 4 of Ronnies videos and 3 of Jays showing them rocking up weights in the curl movements, not to mention many other movements. Jay is the worst of the two by far.

If they rock weights up on their training videos it would seem to be a logical assumption that they do the same when there are no video camera around.

If you don't believe this, I'll post a cut from their training videos bro.

Don't get me wrong on this, I'm actually a Ronnie and Jay fan, but I merely made the observation that they rock on curl movements and suggested that maybe rocking is the way to go.

These 2 stars have dominated bodybuilding for 10 years now, so they seem like a logical place to look to see what may work in reality.

Ronnie comments often about how his biceps have always been big and he doesn't focus on them much, so perhaps he can build them up doing anything at all.

By the way, I'm still trying to find a video of them doing pull-ups. Perhaps you can point me in the direction of an article or video where they discus pull-ups as the way to develop a huge back...I can't find any. I only see them doing cable pulldowns and various rowing movements. I didn't see Dorian doing them either....3 of the greatest backs ever in bodybuilding and not a pull-ups in sight.
 
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PoweredUp said:
But then it loses its entertainment value...
This forum is to inform not to entertain. If we do entertain its in a fun loving way. If any one feels like being a individual and going against this. Bend over and kiss your own ass good by. :)
 
needtogetaas said:
This forum is to inform not to entertain. If we do entertain its in a fun loving way. If any one feels like being a individual and going against this. Bend over and kiss your own ass good by. :)
It was a joke. I understand the purpose of these forums. No need to hit the nuke button...
 
A reason why you might see videos of pros rocking is that there is a camera there and they want to show themselves using the largest weights possible to impress the fans who know that's a lot of weight but don't realize that the form is bad (and wind up imitating it in the gym).

Take the cameras away, I would guess they drop the weight down and use proper form.

--

I'm not going to antagonize anyone further, but I stand by everything I say to answer that other person, around Nov I will have the CSCS credential which still doesn't matter because facts stand on their own including what I said about the use of the EZ-bar.

Oh, and I'll also still be 'skinny.' So obviously I still won't know what I'm talking about.

What is ironic is if you do a search on this forum, it was HERE that I was first informed of the proper bicep technique and the use of the EZ bar.
 
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